The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    I have been playing guitar for several years but recently started playing jazz.

    I want to buy a new guitar specifically for jazz and O like a nice warm/mid tone.

    The two guitars I have in mind are the Ibanez LGB30 (George Benson cheapest signature) and the Guild A-150 Savoy to be played through a Fender Princeton.

    I'd appreciate any advice as to which might be best. Thanks!

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    I'm in a very similar boat to you. I think about buying a new guitar and amp every day. I've had the same rig since high school, a les paul and a Marshall AVT-100, definitely not a typical "jazz rig". I've been subconsciously putting off investing in a jazz rig for a few reasons:

    1. More time understanding my rig and the various tones available at my disposal. I don't mean an hour or two, I mean months. I recall Barney Kessel stating in his book, The Guitar, that hollow bodies are more "personal" with their warm tones which I can understand but I think the nuanced inflections available from a solid body provide you with a different set of tools to add personality to your playing. I'm still working on that idea and I think it's paying off for my playing.

    2. More time to research guitars. There are so many out there and I'm a buy once cry once kind of guy. I know the guitar has to have a few things going for it like playability, beauty, character and value.

    3. More time playing and learning in general. Who knows, maybe in the next year you find a jazz guitarist you haven't heard of that dramatically influences your style. I found out about Tal Farlow, saw one of his guitars and automatically thought, "I want."

    4. Less money wasted on bad decisions.

    At any rate, those are my thoughts.
    Last edited by Thecytochromec; 08-13-2015 at 03:10 PM.

  4. #3

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    Pretty nice choices both. Right about 1k is your budget, I assume?

    If you go just a bit over, you might find a used Heritage 575 too. Just something to think about.

  5. #4
    Good advice. I have also a les Paul so maybe I should play around with it a bit until I learn different styles.

  6. #5

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    When you're just starting out playing jazz, the best jazz guitar is the one you already have. You might not get your ideal jazz tone out of it but initially it's more important to start learning how to play the music then fussing over tone. That said, of course, guitarists are guitarists and we do tend to love our gear. I am no exception to this, of course. Given that, there are many low-cost jazz guitars that are quite good. Many of the less expensive Ibanez arch tops, for example, are very good bang for the buck. But you can also get a great jazz tone out of a semi hollow body, such as the Epiphone 335 style guitars (or the Ibanez ones) or from a Telecaster.

    Before buying a guitar, I would suggest spending some time on YouTube listening to jazz guitarist a different type of instruments and see what tickles your fancy. Ed Bickert using a Telecaster, Jim Hall using an ES 175, Emily Remler playing an ES 330, Herb Ellis playing in ES 175, Gene Bertoncini playing a nylon string, Les Paul playing a Les Paul, Grant Green playing an ES 335, etc. There are a lot of different great guitarists playing a lot of different guitars and getting great sounds. While the arch top guitar tends to be perhaps the most traditional choice, it is not necessarily the right choice.

    I spent the first four or so years learning jazz guitar on a Martin dreadnought copy. It was actually fine and sounded surprisingly good for jazz. And I moved on to an Ibanez GB10, added a G&L F100 for a few years, a classical, a Frankenstrat, eventually a nice carvetop and then a Tele. For gigging I use the Tele almost as much as I use the carvetop- the portability of the telecaster is very helpful sometimes and the resistance to feedback is often a benefit. As much as I like the Telecaster, the archtop guitar remains a sentimental or emotional favorite of mine.

    I have always had some hope of being a guitarist with a single guitar. Many of my guitar heroes are strongly associated with a single instrument and I have kind of wanted to be that way myself. However that just doesn't seem to be the cards and that's OK too.
    Last edited by Cunamara; 08-14-2015 at 10:38 PM. Reason: Fixing the mistakes from using Siri I didn't catch.

  7. #6

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    Gabor Szabo got a great tone from a roundhole flat top acoustic with a sound hole p.u. As did McLaughlin on his early album Extrapolations. I've got an early 60s Gibson LG1. I've done some recording with a soundhole p.u. going direct with a vintage Fender amp patch and it sounds like a vintage archtop. You can buy them for a grand if you look. The upper mid range sounds really good. The low range is a little woofy. I've got bronze roundwounds on it which may not work as well as nickel with the magnetic pickups. Some of those early 70s Yamaha lawsuit Martins may sound good through the right amp.

    Last edited by mrcee; 08-14-2015 at 04:05 PM.

  8. #7

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    When it comes to playing the old standards (I don't really play lead, I'm horrible at it) I like to play my Mossman Flattop. It has a great sound and also the neck is narrower across the width than most guitars and so playing the jazz chords are easier for me. I did buy an Eastman acoustic archtop but prefer that more for the things I play out of Leavitt or Mel Bay books - that kind of style of music suits it great. I've not tried to get a pick up for either one yet, so no advice on the amp.

  9. #8

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    Sometimes we get a bit too caught up in the gear and not the skill that we need to develop as a guitarist. I'm guilty of that as much as the next player. I simply love all things guitar!

    For now get the best guitar and amp that you can afford and continue studying your craft. You've selected two great, modestly priced guitars for playing jazz. Either will make playing more enjoyable. That in itself might encourage the practice that it takes to reach the level of musician you aspire to become.

    Enjoy the ride!

  10. #9

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    Every guitar is a jazz guitar.

  11. #10

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    I'm getting into jazz guitar, and need recommendations for a first instrument. Budget is not a huge constraint, but I would prefer not to pay over $2000 (but can go over if you think it's a good idea). I'd like an instrument that does not constrain my progress, and that I can keep for a long time if it grows on me. I'm undecided between archtop or semi-hollow (or even solidbody, but I have a couple as you can see from below).

    A little background:

    I have a couple of Ibanez 7/8-string Prestige-class solidbodies for other genres (metal/prog) and appreciate their craftmanship and necks/fretboards. I also have a Taylor 214ce Koa for "campfire" applications and which I'm currently using for learning jazz stuff (with Mickey Baker by my side). I still have my first solidbody, a USA Gibson Les Paul Studio, that I don't like (thick neck, difficult access to high frets, unergonomic shape) and am planning on selling. In the past, I owned an Epiphone Dot which I sold as I did not find the fretboard/neck feel and sound appealing. Also, I had a Godin 5th Avenue Kingpin which I used basically as an acoustic guitar, but somehow didn't like the feel of it - it wasn't quite loud and bright enough as an acoustic, and the access to higher frets was very limited.

    I mostly practice at night acoustically or through iRig and AmpliTube amp simulators and headphones. I don't have a fancy tube amplifier so matching the amp is not an issue.

    I am a lifelong jazz fan, and have some experience playing jazz with other instruments (piano, clarinet) from years past. Now that my kids are a bit older I'm starting to have more time to devote to music again.
    Last edited by takku; 03-10-2017 at 03:58 PM.

  12. #11

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    Ibanez makes excellent products .. both their cheap and expensive. I'd recommend finding one on the used market, that way you can always sell it again if you find that jazz is not your thing.

    String it up with flats and you're ready to go!

  13. #12
    joaopaz Guest
    The thing is... many guitars can and do work perfectly as jazz guitars. In your post you mentioned a Les Paul, a Dot, the Kingpin.
    You could build a solid jazz guitar career on any of those.

    My advice is... listen to your favorite jazz players, check their instruments, start from there... try as many as you can - as you already rejected some based on your experience.

    Try to recreate the sounds you like, with your fingers and pick, on any guitar that comes around. As Lobomov mentioned, flatwound strings are a great and obvious starting point.

    2000k is a lot of money, so once you have your priorities set, you'll have a lot to choose from!

  14. #13
    Flip the Les Paul Studio for a Fender Telecaster.

    Unless you want to go for an archtop. For $2000 you have a lot to choose from. I like the looks of Eastman and Loar archtops in the over $1000 range. I have no personal experience with either of these brands but I do read good things about them.

  15. #14

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    A Telecaster makes an excellent jazz guitar... unless, like me, you are looking for an ACOUSTIC guitar that inspires jazz.

    That is a much more challenging find. In general a 30's through 50's Epiphone Deluxe is what I think of as the standard. Unfortunately they can be quite spendy.

    I have heard glowing reviews of Loars as modern copies, but the one I played was total junk. There are the new "Masterbuilt Deluxe" with pressed spruce tops. Reviews seem favorable for the folk/country players but poor from the jazz players. I believe Eastman makes their equivalent of a Deluxe/Deluxe Regent. Generally the reviews for Eastman guitars are very favorable. Ibanez make nice guitars, but they tend to be heavy and work better as electric guitars.

    I make an under 4lbs acoustic archtop that makes extensive use of carbon fiber. I strive to give the voice of an old Deluxe but with modern playability. But mine are a good $1,000 more than your budget. Ken Parker makes his acoustic guitars, but at 15 times your budget. I can't think of another boutique luthier building acoustic archtops, but I imagine they will all be at least as expensive as mine, if not much more.

    You say you mostly play acoustically, so I hope that helps. In my experience archtops have a split personality, and by far the dominant one is as an electric guitar.


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  16. #15

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    Are you adverse to buying used and are you willing to drive a bit? Dropping 2k on a guitar, if I were you, I would be wanting to try as many instruments as possible and to buy used. Eastman, for example, you will save a ton buying a used instrument because their resale value is low. Between Eastman and The Loar I would choose an Eastman, although there are many kinds and it is worth trying them to see if you like the wider string spacing (1 3/4' nut) and light acoustic bodies they make.

    Where are you located? Any music stores nearby where you can try stuff out?

  17. #16

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    Three words: Gibson ES-165. (The full sized humbucker one!)

    It has the qualities for being a lifelong instrument.

    And if not, You should get Your investment easily back.

    Good luck and enjoy Your quest!


    First Jazz Guitar-gibson-es-165-jpg

  18. #17

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    Wow, I am blown away by all the great suggestions! Thank you everyone!

    My problem is that like so many different players and styles that just listing my favorites gets me right to square one - I like Luis Bonfa on his acoustics, Al Di Meola chasing the devil down a Spanish highway on his LP, Joe Pass on his archtops, Sco roughhousing his Ibby, Julian Lage on Tele, and Tosin Abasi's 8-string metal fusion. And everything in between. See my problem

    You guys are giving me a lot to think about. My head is going in two directions:

    1. Sounds like a humbucker-equipped Tele (with a coil tap if I want to thin out the sound) would get me to a pretty sweet place, and also serve as a blues machine on the side. I really like the sounds Julian Lage is conjuring from a plain Tele. I was actually thinking about exactly the idea of trading my LP for a Tele - I really like the neck and the feel of a Tele Special FMT we have at our local music store. Sounds like a no regrets move, and Teles are so cheap I would not feel bad about getting one + a more dedicated jazz box.

    2. Also, I'm sold on Ibanez quality and value, and either an AF or AS would get me a sound and a feel that would be different from my metal monster solid bodies on the one hand and my acoustic on the other. The only question is whether a true hollow body (AF) or a semi-hollow (AS) would be more appropriate. I'd really appreciate your thoughts on this (and I'm sure it's an evergreen topic on these pages). I tried an AF55 at a local guitar store the other week, and while the build quality felt a bit cheap, the body style and form factor felt very comfortable to me - so a bit higher build level AF might be a nice choice for me.

    I live in a large metro (Dallas) so I have a few guitar stores to go to. This does not seem to be a jazz mecca and jazz boxes are hard to come by even on craigslist, but I'll keep trying. I'm really intrigued by Eastmans that everyone keeps talking about in jazz circles - but I'm yet to see one live, hope to play one soon. In the meanwhile, I'm unleashing my internal Luis Bonfa on my Taylor - even my wife can agree to that sound :-)

    You guys really rock, thank you for all the advice and encouragement!

  19. #18

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    A forum member (Agentsmith) has a nice vintage Herb Ellis archtop for sale.

    Agentsmith is a pro-level player, and he is demanding in his equipment choice. He has strong opinions about his likes and dislikes, but I think he is a person of integrity, and good faith in his opinions.

    Price is right, too, for an instrument of this vintage, and quality.

    (Northeast is about to get hit with a major snowstorm. Probably best not to be shipping instruments till the bad weather clears out a bit.)

    PS: RE: the full hollow body vs. semi-hollow issue, the semi is just going to sound a little less round & full, and probably more mid-rangy. For uptempo stuff and when played in a combo, it might make very little difference. Larry Carlton has a pretty fat sound on a 335. There is a thread here on Scofield's solo guitar playing, and you can hear him playing his Ibanez 335-like instrument. It's just different from a full hollow body. Some semis (a Howard Roberts Fusion) still sound pretty fat. It's a continuum.
    Last edited by goldenwave77; 03-13-2017 at 07:30 AM.

  20. #19

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    Takku,
    A Gibson 165/175 is a nice choice. It is 24-3/4 scale. The 135 and 137's are real nice too.
    But if you didn't like the chunky neck of the LP, Then you might not like those.
    You may want to check out an Ibanez GB10 or if you are lucky, a nice JP20. A lot of Heritage guitars offer less chunky necks, you just have to try them out.
    Your preferences will guide you to the right guitar. If you can, play it 1st.
    Best of luck and welcome aboard.
    Joe D

  21. #20

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    Speaking of the high end Ibanez I've just bought a 1989 AF200 and it's very high level.
    The neck is quite thin and the guitar is very comfortable and lightly built.
    I recommend you to try before, it has it's own sound.


    First Jazz Guitar-ibanez-af200-png

  22. #21

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    Just wanted to thank all of you for your advice and suggestions! Since I'm a man of action, I went ahead and bought a Fender Telecaster FMT HH based on your suggestions. Since I find myself gravitating to the electric end of the jazz guitar spectrum, I think that will be a great starting point for me. I found myself liking the Tele neck and the jazz sound you can get by dialing the tone knob to a 4 and rolling down the volume a bit - especially on a neck humbucker. I always associated a tele with Keith and Bruce and chicken picking country and never even considered owning a tele before, but this discussion has really opened up my horizons.

    I still think I may be an Ibanez AS guy at heart, but I want to take my time comparing ES-335 vs E-175 type instruments before committing the big bucks. The tele gives me the opportunity to play jazz while I figure out my next move.


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  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jx30510
    Speaking of the high end Ibanez I've just bought a 1989 AF200 and it's very high level.
    The neck is quite thin and the guitar is very comfortable and lightly built.
    I recommend you to try before, it has it's own sound
    I saw some YouTube videos of folks playing the AF200 and it may well be the best-sounding piece of kit I have ever heard I my life...


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  24. #23

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    Well here she is - I ended up getting a barely used American Standard Tele from Craigslist for a song (well actual US paper money exchanged hands). Set up the bridge and have been playing Robert Conti exercises ever since. Couldn't be happier :-)




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  25. #24

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    That Tele is a real beauty. You have chosen well. Congratulations, and play it in good health!

  26. #25

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    I have an opportunity to purchase a Yamaha SA-2200 used for a reasonable price. I've heard good things about it. Any love for that instrument out there? My primary competition for it would be Ibanez AS200 or AM200.


    First Jazz Guitar-yamaha-sa2200-jpg