thunk and Gibson Archtop Guitars

Yes, this example could be the epitome of thunk. Do you know what he was using?

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Originally Posted by vinlander

I never heard a cheap laminate guitar that has any thunk...well according to my perception of thunk.
I don't hear much thunk in the Benson video (his guitar is not cheap however just not thunking for me)
I do in that one however
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4vmuoq6Des

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Originally Posted by jads57

On carved tops I wonder if it has to do w/ Gibson carving their tops thicker than others. Also I've noticed aside from Mark Campellone most other boutique makers guitars are extremely light in weight compared to Gibsons.

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Yes, I think it's the top thickness and the bracing thickness.

Doug Raney has played with some nice thunk. Not always, mostly his earlier stuff.

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Originally Posted by ArchtopHeaven

Im not sure I know what 'thunk' is. To me its the sound associated with a cheap laminate Archtop. It can appear in many jazz recordings but I wouldn't label it a quintessential part of Jazz tone.

I also think too much thunk makes for a darker muddy tone, hence why a realty thunk es-175 with that short scale would be too flay for my taste. I also think the recordings with too much 'thunk' dont sound very good.

I like thunk but I also like Japanese guitars that dont have thunk, they have more clarity. A combination of the two is good. My X700 has quite a bit of thunk mind you.

(that Guitar Benson plays will sound kinda thunk, it has a laminate spruce top)

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The X700 has no thunk IMO, neither does my laminate '76 X-500. The Aria Herb Ellis I had thunked but not as much as any of my gibsons. And beauty is in the eye of the beholder so I can't who's right, but we do have very different tastes in jazz guitar sound.

Is it an L5?

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Originally Posted by jzucker

Yes, this example could be the epitome of thunk. Do you know what he was using?

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I ve always identified the word "thunk" with that low frequency resonance adding "body" to the notes when playing octaves using the thumb...

Do I have my definition wrong?

If it's so, what exactly would be the "right" one?

Inquiring minds would like to know. :cool:

Sorry, but I think my Epi 175 Premium is definitely a thunkmeister.

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Originally Posted by jzucker

Yes, this example could be the epitome of thunk. Do you know what he was using?

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My guess is his ES 350 with CC neck pup like on The Swinging Guitar

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Originally Posted by LtKojak

I ve always identified the word "thunk" with that low frequency resonance adding "body" to the notes when playing octaves using the thumb...

Do I have my definition wrong?

If it's so, what exactly would be the "right" one?

Inquiring minds would like to know. :cool:

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listen to the two clips of Joe Pass and Tal Farlow posted in this thread. That's what thunk is. Wes' tone did not have any thunk for the most part. Thunk is the lower mid thwok that accompanies the note.

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Originally Posted by rsclosson

Sorry, but I think my Epi 175 Premium is definitely a thunkmeister.

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the one I tried at GC with mahogany neck had thunk. Not a huge amount though.

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Originally Posted by Joe DeNisco

I think you get major thunk even you put flatwound 13's on a Les Paul.
And the sustain you get makes it better for us softer touch players. When I am playing with a band or just playing along with backing tracks I take my Lester on occasion because it sounds great and is SO MUCH easier to stay above the band levels.

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I'm a Les Paul fan, own a 68 Standard with P90s, not convinced of Les Paul's thunk, maybe thunkadelic . . .

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Originally Posted by jzucker

This has nothing to do with pickups. You can hear it in the acoustic signature of the instruments. What I have now concluded, is that it has more to do with the way gibson carves the tops, arches the instruments and braces the instruments.

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I'm pleased to read this. I have always thought that even with solid bodies, the acoustic sound determines the electric timbre and no amount of fiddling with pickups effects etc really changes this. It's like with recording - you can't ever "fix it in the mix". In my limited experience there is something about the rigidity of Gibson jazz guitar bodies that delivers that plummy sound - I've not heard it in anyone else's guitars either.

Come to think about it, all my favourite bop guitarists have thunk. Other timbres of quality exist, and often they're what I want to hear, but thunk has... gravitas.

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Originally Posted by vinlander

My guess is his ES 350 with CC neck pup like on The Swinging Guitar

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Or maybe a P90?

Here are my beliefs.

You can't have thunkiness without rapid decay. That decay can have more than one phase. The loud to medium decibel part could be rapid with the medium to full fade could be rapid, slow or in between. But the flat thunk, in my perception, is the initial rapid decay associated with few overtones, also.

I personally have found flat wounds to be thunkadelic the most. Hex cores highlight this and are thunkerific.

Softer picks may contribute, too. So can less than precisely slotted saddles.

The string slapping the upper frets can sometimes be confused with thunking but is its own sound.

For those who can attribute aspects of the thunkdom scale to bracing pattern, you have better listening than me.

I also haven't noticed that any particular factory is more thunkophilic or thunkophobic than another, all else being equal. My experience though is limited to Gibson, Heritage, and Guild.

The topic is controversial obviously, but this is what I thunk up.

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Originally Posted by ecj

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUwIDafNTTc

Do you think that sound is in the ballpark, Jack? Maybe you're listening for a different sound than me.

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Not hearing a huge thunk in that sound. A little bit though. Certainly more than a heritage eagle but not nearly in the category as a 175

Yes, the Tal clip is the thunk. No question about it.

I'd be surprised if it wasn't the 350 with the CC. Did Tal ever play a solid wood instrument? I didn't think so.

Sometimes words simply fail us. :nightmare:

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Originally Posted by jzucker

Thunk is the lower mid thwok that accompanies the note.

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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Yes, the Tal clip is the thunk. No question about it.

I'd be surprised if it wasn't the 350 with the CC. Did Tal ever play a solid wood instrument? I didn't think so.

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He played the 350 until getting the prototype TFs. His sound is the very definition of thunk to me.

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Originally Posted by jzucker

Yes, this example could be the epitome of thunk. Do you know what he was using?

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This is the cover of the LP it came from:

The Artistry of Tal Farlow - Tal Farlow | Songs, Reviews, Credits, Awards | AllMusic

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Originally Posted by ecj

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUwIDafNTTc

Do you think that sound is in the ballpark, Jack? Maybe you're listening for a different sound than me.

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Not hearing a huge thunk in that sound. A little bit though. Certainly more than a heritage eagle but not quite as much as my '96 L5 which is not as much as my Tal Farlow which is not as much as my 175.

If George had on a sleeveless sweater vest as per Tal, would he have a larger thunk? I think not.

I think this clip captures Tal's thunky sound particularly well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d0rT4yfWFY

And Joe's sound here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Akg6sd_KnKA

Of course neither sounds can be improved on :)

DB

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Originally Posted by jzucker

The X700 has no thunk IMO, neither does my laminate '76 X-500. The Aria Herb Ellis I had thunked but not as much as any of my gibsons. And beauty is in the eye of the beholder so I can't who's right, but we do have very different tastes in jazz guitar sound.

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It seems to me that when you talk about thunk, you talk about the bottoming or hollowing out of the sound, or very compressed tone.

I dont like too much of that. As I said a touch of it is nice.

I'll do a recording of my X700 because it seems we might not be talking about the same thing.

TF: ES-350/CC (same as Barney Kessel; they don't get the same sound--Tal using a thin pick? I suspect so.)