The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Page 3 of 13 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Posts 51 to 75 of 309
  1. #51

    User Info Menu

    and now, pressure .. Seriously, i'll gladly start this project again if some of you are interested. i can keep you posted about my progress, but it WILL take some time as the only time i can do that is between 10 pm and midnight and i also have my gigs, guitar playing, family, friends blabla.. i'd give a lot to have more time for my projects..

    but i'll definately keep you posted. thanks for the interest!

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

    User Info Menu

    Don't have a Polytone, but like the sound of one.


    Let me get this clear. The pedal would plug into a regular tube or SS amp. that doesn't get the Polytone sound, and would give you that capability?! That's the basic idea, and the marketing focus?

    (I'm a simple guy...strictly plug and play. Have an overdrive pedal, but have never used it. Have a couple of different amps (3 tube, 1 SS) that give me different sounds.)

  4. #53

    User Info Menu

    That would add a tone shaping layer of Polytone type sounds. The signal would still go through the tone stack of the amp and its loudspeaker so it will not be 100% the same. But if you dial the amp to be neutral it should be convincing. That's actually already used a lot of distortion pedals : Marshall preamp, boogie preamp,... You can get convincing results depending on what you plug into.

    Plugging the pedal directly into the return of an effect loop is also theoretically possible. Then the preamp is bypassed and you should be even closer.

    It a part of what I should test Polytone in a Pedal


    Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

  5. #54

    User Info Menu

    Hey guys. I can already confirm that it's working Polytone in a Pedal

    Comparing the difference between going straight to a Polytone and using the preamp in front of a fender right now


    Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

  6. #55

    User Info Menu

    Ok so after my tests i'd say this

    putting this polytone preamp in front of the fender is not going to sound like going into the polytone at the same settings. It definately fattens the sound, emphasizes the mids, and makes it more present than without it, but it's not as mid focused as on the polytone (which is not necessarly a bad thing). I haven't played with the fender for years and a few days ago i plugged into it and hated how thin the single notes lines sounded.. that pedal could solve that problem and really bring presence to the fender sound (my fender is a 2 knobs tone model: 62 tremolux, so i can't even max out the mids)

    BUT the eq capabilities of the preamp makes it possible to go from one extreme (really bassy or mid focused) to another (really dry, high-mids focused sound, rosenwinkel style), on the fender. in ways that are nor possible without it, and very 'polytoneish'.The settings are not the same as the one on the polytone but the polytone sound can be attained, with the pots turned in another place, or playing with the switch. the typical sound and versatility of the polytone is definately in the preamp .. and in my opinion that EQ is much more useable than the one on the fender (better frequencies, much more flexibility (it's active!)).

    I'll make one for myself that's for sure

    i'll try to make videos of this but i'm not equipped for recording and with the iphone mic the mids and bass do not really come through so well.

    it would be really interesting to go into a return from an effect loop .. but i don't have any amp with effect loop now.
    Last edited by add4; 01-12-2017 at 07:22 PM.

  7. #56

    User Info Menu

    Ok, i did this really fast, i'm aware that it's not a super good comparison, and my playing sucks, but it's something



    I recorded a walking bass + chords line, then some random chords, then some single notes noodling on my ditto looper, then played the same sound through my polytone (switch to middle, bass, mids, treble at noon), my fender (62 tremolux, bright channel, bass and treble at noon), and the same fender with a polytone preamp prototype in front of it, playing with the switch and the EQ as the music plays to give an idea of the range of tones that can be reached.
    So don't be surprised if you hear the EQ change in that last recording it's normal and only shows the range of possible tones, from really thin to bassy and everything in between. I'd be curious to have your opinion.

    p.s. it hums, it's normal with breadboarded circuits like the one in the pic if shared above.

  8. #57

    User Info Menu

    Do you guys have something to say about the samples?


    Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

  9. #58

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by add4
    Do you guys have something to say about the samples?
    I am sorry but only thing that I understood clearly is that You use roundwounds!

    I don't know how the roundwounds sound thru Fender or Polytone, so my ears got lost.

    Tried to figure when there is only Fender and when there is Pt-preamp but failed.

    Can You tell the times when things happen? F.ex. "0:47 Pt preamp on" or so?

    You mentioned that there is a middle pot in You Polytone preamp. I have had two late 70´s/early 80´s Polytones which do not have the middle pot. So is Your schematic from late 80's Polytone?

    The red distrotion knob I DO NOT miss!

  10. #59

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
    Just to clarify - the filter on the Polyclone is a low-cut (high-pass) filter that now has been upgraded to active and has an on / off switch, so it can be removed from the circuit. When off it has no effect on sound and it can be quite useful when playing with boomy archtops / cabs / rooms - lowering the bass knob will make your sound thin, the low-cut will not.
    It's a great option to have. My AI amp has it. The old Evans (from 1994) I had some years back didn't have it and it was boomy in many smaller rooms. My Mambo 8 Wedge is not boomy, likely due to the small speaker and closed back. Many more amps, especially those with bigger speakers and open backs, should have such a low cut (high pass) filter.

  11. #60

    User Info Menu

    Yes i do use roundwounds

    Actually the test is not great at all but it's the best i could do really fast at midnight, local hour.

    Let me clarify: there are 3 sound clips. it's always the same clip actually, recorded on a looper, and played back through 3 different situations, then recorded with my Iphone (i know ... )
    situation 1: Played trough my polytone, voice switch in the middle, flat EQ
    situation 2: played through my blonde 62 tremolux, bright channel, bass and treble at noon
    situation 3: played through the preamp, then to the tremolux, same settings as situation 2. But i played with the EQ settings and the voice switch on the preamp through the entire clip so it goes all over the place in terms of EQ. At the beggining everything is flat so it's transparent and basically sound like the fender (so the sound difference between the begginig of clip 1 and 3 are due to the fender preamp and the cab and speaker difference).
    Later i show that bass, mids and presence can be added to make it sound closer to the situation 1 sound. transforming the fender to something 'polytoneish' is possible.
    Then i continue playing with the EQ and make the sound much more treblier, and also use the voice switch for that, getting closer to the modern, early rosenwinkel, very dry sound.
    Then i go back to a more traditionnal jazz sound with more presence and bass.

    To me what should be heard in that last clip is the range of possible sounds that can be attained with the preamp and also how it can 'fatten' the sound: in, situation 2 the single notes line basically sound thin, while in some settings in situation 3, the single notes line are thicker and start to sound much better, which is great for us.
    The soundclip shows that the preamp can completely change the tonal baseline of an amp towards bass, mids (or presence) or treble, but can also be completely transparent when the EQ is at noon. For me that's very useable and i will definately do one for me



    The schematic i have is for the early (pre sonic circuit) polytone and it contains the mid knob (in fact it also contains the infamous distortion, and the reverb, but both of these are not great, so i dropped them). I think the presence or absence of the mid knob is linked to the model (mini brute 1 2 3 ... ) and not to the date of construction. The mid knob is also on my early 1983 mini brute 1, and i love it. So one of the things i wanted when trying the preamp was have this mid knobs available.




    Quote Originally Posted by Herbie
    I am sorry but only thing that I understood clearly is that You use roundwounds!

    I don't know how the roundwounds sound thru Fender or Polytone, so my ears got lost.

    Tried to figure when there is only Fender and when there is Pt-preamp but failed.

    Can You tell the times when things happen? F.ex. "0:47 Pt preamp on" or so?

    You mentioned that there is a middle pot in You Polytone preamp. I have had two late 70´s/early 80´s Polytones which do not have the middle pot. So is Your schematic from late 80's Polytone?

    The red distrotion knob I DO NOT miss!
    Last edited by add4; 01-13-2017 at 06:24 AM.

  12. #61
    Nice, Arnaud! To be honest, if I'll stick something in front of a Fender it will be more of a simple eq pedal, like the Fromel Shape EQ. The Polyclone would be perfect to stick in front of a flat amp, like a Henriksen!

  13. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by oldane
    It's a great option to have. My AI amp has it. The old Evans (from 1994) I had some years back didn't have it and it was boomy in many smaller rooms. My Mambo 8 Wedge is not boomy, likely due to the small speaker and closed back. Many more amps, especially those with bigger speakers and open backs, should have such a low cut (high pass) filter.
    Couldn't agree more. I've even talked to Jon for him to make it part of the Mambo preamp - he's doing a Fender preamp pedal for me and told me he really liked the low-cut filter. It's particularly useful when playing with double bass players in order to avoid frequency conflict... and it's actually very common in the studio to automatically "low-cut" guitars!

  14. #63

    User Info Menu

    Hi add4,

    Good job! Sounds great!
    May you can help me with this doubt. I own two Polytones, the Mini Brute II (12") and the Teeny Brute (8") and also I've been talking about this with jorgemg1984 , considering that the "polytone sound" comes from the preamp but also from the eminence speaker. What wold happen if I just go through the pedals, preamp into the PA? or is there a way to keep the "polytone sound" more adaptable to any situation?

  15. #64
    Cris, I just replied by e-mail!

    What I would love would be a good Polytone impulse response... that way I could nail the Poly sound completely. Anyone wants to do one for me?

  16. #65

    User Info Menu

    It's possible to preview what the sound would be like coming from the pre-amp direct to a PA, recording console, or other amp by just using the "Pre-Amp Out" plug on an existing Polytone if you have one. That takes the signal straight from the pre-amp.

    The builder could see the difference between a "real" polytone and the pedal easily.

    Plug the guitar into the amp and play. Then, unplug the guitar and re-insert the plug into the effects return, which goes straight to the power-amp. Then you have your pedal as the pre-amp and you're going to the same power-amp and speaker.

    Those two sounds would give you the closest side-by-side comparison I can think of.

  17. #66

    User Info Menu

    Thanks I forgot about that pre amp out Polytone in a Pedal I'll try that tonight.

    I think what's usually missed of going straight to pa is a cab sim of some kind. Especially if you're using distortion. I am actually thinking of making myself a more complete preamp pedal based on this Polytone preamp but with added cab sim, a gain knob, and three switchable levels of gain (no distortion, added harmonics right below Crunch mode, distortion). Still debating whether a kind of limiter/compression would be nice to add too. Anyway I'm really enthusiastic at the idea of doing a me complete preamp pedal with on the basis of the Polytone sounds that I love and have been using for years.


    Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

  18. #67

    User Info Menu

    A preamp and cab sim to go direct is a fantastic thing. Great sound to the audience while still only carrying a pedalboard. I am sure a polytone preamp would quickly become very popular with the jazz crowd!

    While I think that it would be nice to have the IR integrated, it is not that vital since one can always use a second pedal (like the torpedo cab) after it (the Tcab also has a power amp simulation which I find absolutely essential to get a great tone out of a preamp pedal)

    that amplifier pedal looks pretty cool though. I want something like this for the Kemper!

  19. #68

    User Info Menu

    I haven't looked deeply into it yet. But the Manufacturers website now mentions pedals (Pangea cp-100) but not the chip (cp-16). Also I believe it's a super specialized area and would prefer to either leave it for another pedal like a torpedo cab or just add one, good sounding, analog cab sim output.

    Nothing is fixed anyway. I just ordered my boards for the boosters and the poly preamp is the next board I'll design. I also already have a design idea for the pedal and a name. So that part could be quite fast.

    So far I was thinking of doing a first version:simple with just the preamp and one more thing added: a gain control which would give a veeeeery light crunch (more like added singing quality, not even crunch) when pushed hard. And the normal clean sound when below noon.

    Other possible options would be:
    - the low cut switch
    - a three way switch to have either completely clean or light crunch or crunch sound with the gain knob
    - adding an indépendant od Channel
    - adding a light limiter to simulate tube compression
    - adding a cab sim output
    - adding a pre amplification tone stack to have both and pre and post amplification active eq. (This is an option in the bias plugin and I actually find it super useful)

    But then that would become a much more complicated pedal, a real preamp. With 274837 knobs and options. And it's very far from what I planned initially si I'll first start by the poly preamp with one mod: the very light gain Knob ( actually the same as the one in my booster, that I love)


    Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

  20. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Cris Gomez
    What real posibilities are there to build/make something like this? With the Poly preamp
    If I had the knowledge, I would do it. It would sell quite a bit, I believe.

  21. #70

    User Info Menu

    I had something like this in mind?

    the name is ... obviously coming from polytone, and i wanted to keep that since my polytone has always amazed me by the enourmous amount of useable tones i can get from it, in many styles. It has a great traditionnal jazz sound, modern jazz sounds, amazing fusion tones, and even some rock/soul/hip hop tones. It's a real swiss army knife, so i wanted to keep that idea and i came up with 'multitones'.
    About the graphics, the big "M" is actually coming from a picture of the "P" i have on the front of my polytone, that i worked vectorized and transformed in photoshop to get that M, so theres a real 'parenthood' from a real Polytone logo, and also the idea of having the first letter repeated in another color also comes from the alignement of an original polytone logo
    Polytone in a Pedal-a1-logo-jpg

    Pictures now: the green version is just to show clearly where the pots are since with black on black it is not really so visible

    edit: i will invert gain and volume, and the letter of the bottom row are not aligned, some details not ok, but you get the general idea

    Polytone in a Pedal-capture-decran-2017-01-15-22-33-34-pngPolytone in a Pedal-capture-decran-2017-01-15-22-33-55-png

    another edit: that last version has a few correction and the marking around the knobs

    Polytone in a Pedal-capture-decran-2017-01-15-22-46-52-png

    Now i just have to try to fit all the components in a PCB, with that number of pots ... which might require more PCB design skills than the ones i currently have the fun begins
    Last edited by add4; 01-15-2017 at 06:07 PM.

  22. #71

    User Info Menu

    Where can I order? :-)
    Really interested!

  23. #72

    User Info Menu

    Thanks for the kind words sir!

    I can't wait to be able to answer you! But i also definitely don't want to keep people who payed me any money waiting while i don't know how much it will take to make them, so i won't take any order before knowing that i can have a decent waiting time to finish them (meaning that i have the PCBs, tested, at home. then i have a waiting time of approximately one week to get the boxes, and build the circuits, so that could be acceptable).
    But i'm definitely making some, the project is really exciting me, and i'll keep you guys updated here

  24. #73

    User Info Menu

    Well, shoot, this is pretty interesting. I don't know what the consensus or what you're interested in doing with the box but I know my interest would be in being able to use this as a DI into a PA or studio desk (or maybe into my AI Clarus 2r to have a "jazzier" rather than "hi-fi" feel). XLR out would be a nifty way to facilitate this (and being able to run on phantom power would be really cool but probably complicates things a lot). Maybe with a power amp/speak sim built in. That probably makes things much more difficult and complicated, though, and may be outside your intent.

    Of course other things can be chained after the Multitone (reverb, speaker sim, etc).

    I have a Tech21 SansAmp ParaDriver DI that I hoped would do this, but have never been able to get it to sound jazzy rather than rock-ish. I've got a Baggs Para Acoustic DI that works wonderfully with piezos but not with magnetic pickups so much. My most successful tool for this is a Zoom MS100bt, actually.

  25. #74

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Cunamara
    Well, shoot, this is pretty interesting.
    thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Cunamara
    I don't know what the consensus or what you're interested in doing with the box but I know my interest would be in being able to use this as a DI into a PA or studio desk (or maybe into my AI Clarus 2r to have a "jazzier" rather than "hi-fi" feel). XLR out would be a nifty way to facilitate this (and being able to run on phantom power would be really cool but probably complicates things a lot). Maybe with a power amp/speak sim built in. That probably makes things much more difficult and complicated, though, and may be outside your intent.
    i actually recorded a bit with the preamp out output of my polytone going straight to my soundcard. and i found the results quite nice at least for clean tones. most of the times a cab sim is needed for dsitrotion to sound any good.
    To summarize your other questions
    - at the moment it's just the preamp, in a pedal with one mod: a gain know to go from totally clean to 95% clean with a little more push.
    - i am aware that a cab sim could be interesting and i'd love to add it, but i then it will most probably mean bigger pedal, and more choices (analgo cab sim vs digital ones, fixed vs IR, ... ) so i think it's not outside my intent, but it needs to sound great, and i am at 0% of that road, so i'll explore that, but first, something simple, that works
    - phantom power ... that will most probably not happen.
    - XlR output .. that could be possible, maybe even as a custom job if it's needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cunamara
    Of course other things can be chained after the Multitone (reverb, speaker sim, etc).
    i'm counting on this atm. my experience tells me that a few good building blocks are better than a huge system that you cannot change easily if you want to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cunamara
    I have a Tech21 SansAmp ParaDriver DI that I hoped would do this, but have never been able to get it to sound jazzy rather than rock-ish. I've got a Baggs Para Acoustic DI that works wonderfully with piezos but not with magnetic pickups so much. My most successful tool for this is a Zoom MS100bt, actually.
    maybe the polytone preamp would just be the layer you put before your DI, in order to get a classic jazz tone


    hope that helps

  26. #75

    User Info Menu

    I'd love to be a "beta-tester" if you get to the point of testing prototypes!

    I have several different Polytones to compare with: Minibrute II, 2 open-back Baby Brutes and a closed-back Baby-Brute.