Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Posts 51 to 70 of 70
  1. #51

    User Info Menu


  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by DRS

    Geez, why do I feel exploited now?
    I really shouldn't waste any more time giving out information about Artur Lang's life and work ...

  4. #53

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Ol' Fret
    Geez, why do I feel exploited now?
    I really shouldn't waste any more time giving out information about Artur Lang's life and work ...
    ???

  5. #54

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Ol' Fret
    Geez, why do I feel exploited now?
    I really shouldn't waste any more time giving out information about Artur Lang's life and work ...
    Ol’ Fret; With all due respect, how is simply posting a link to an ad for a Lang exploiting you? We certainly appreciate the unique knowledge about Lang you bring to the forum; isn’t interest in an offered Lang a sign of that?

  6. #55

    User Info Menu

    G., ok, let me explain a little bit. As already said, it's only a feeling of exploitation, thus of a subjective nature; no real exploitation of course.

    Suppose someone tries to make contact because he has bought a rare carved guitar not too much is known about. Photos are examined by the respondent, compared with existing, known models, arranged in a model_and_time line, the subtleties highlighted. Who has e.g. tried to catalog only the variants of f-sound holes that Lang used on his archtops? (This model has the longer f-holes with violin-like "wings" around the eyes, together with a binding that Lang no longer used later in this form, probably because of too much time exposure).

    A few mails go back and forth, the time required for this is not entirely minimal ... the inevitable question about the approximate estimated market value is also answered. All of this in order to find out only a few weeks later that the knowledge acquired was used to position the instrument better on the web market, and/or to achieve a price that is well above the estimate.
    No fair and respectful behavior towards the information provider, isn't it?


    Such behavior is piling up recently. Another inquirer promptly posted my more detailed email reply by name and word-for-word to the next best corresponding F*c*book forum, without my knowledge. I cannot say whether such people simply never had the chance of getting a good breeding in their life, or whether they are simply selfish or pecuniary.

    While I am largely indifferent to such behavior with almost all guitar brands, I'm not with Artur Lang guitars. Anyone who sells a Lang guitar without external necessity has never deserved one and will probably never delve deeper into Lang's work! To whom e.g. a custom-made Lang guitar neck is not suitable, please ask friends / guitarists if someone would be suitable, take your time for at least half a year, and don't try to capitalize on other people's knowledge.


    My hope is always that people can and want to learn. TBH, many years ago I myself sold a Lang guitar with a massive neck problem that I couldn't handle myself, online - and got a proper roasting by HR. From today's perspective it was very well deserved ... lesson learnt!
    Anyway, after an accumulation of such events recently, I've deactivated my PM box. I'm sure you'll understand that at an advanced age the remaining lifetime is simply too precious for annoying activities.
    Last edited by Ol' Fret; 08-28-2020 at 01:34 PM.

  7. #56

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by supersoul
    I really enjoy all of your posts, and I hope that a few jerks don't ruin it for the rest of us. German archtops are relatively unknown, at least to me, and I've learned a lot from all that you have shared.
    Indeed! Please, do continue sharing your vast knowledge! There are some of us that are here to learn and appreciate even more these amazing guitars. Thank you, as always!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  8. #57

    User Info Menu

    I posted the CL because it's for sale locally, I had already read all the threads, and I hoped someone could offer more insight.
    It's not my guitar.
    Who knows why the seller is selling it? Many around here have not worked much or had reduced hours since March.
    If people feel these Langs are good, let's discuss.

  9. #58

    User Info Menu

    Anyone who does not consider background information to be significant will certainly not be very interested in the background and specific construction secrets that Lang used - and which differ in a positive way from the usual well-known brands. Of course there are no secrets in guitar and violin making, only builders with more or less knowledge and skills. In the end, Artur Lang, like Lloyd Loar before him, used the knowledge of centuries-old violin making in transferring it to archtop guitars.

    While the vast majority of American archtop guitars moved away from acoustically designed construction by the early 1950s at the latest, with a few exceptions such as D'Angelico, originally a violin maker, and his disciple D'Aquisto, Lang - also trained at a violin-making school - developed his own instruments in the direction of an uncompromising up-to-date electro-acoustic guitar, which shows all the advantages of an acoustic archtop even more intensely: high acoustic volume (if desired) while reducing susceptibility to feedback, excellent projection, maximum dynamic range, very pronounced balance and eveness across the entire register, and all of this with a pleasant rich and warm sound. Here you don't just hear the sound of the respective pickup or amplifier!
    In archtop guitar making, starting with the handful of Super Special models that Roger launched at the end of the 1940s (and the guitar on offer is still quite reminiscent of its role models), in his later life Lang laid down a steep learning curve and knowledge that is unlike any other guitar maker I heard of.


    In an earlier forum I once pointed out the difference between American and German music listeners in terms of sound perception in the post-war decades. You might have to know that German recording technology had produced some extraordinarily good results up til 1945 ... companies like Neumann and Telefunken, and others ... and that the Americans had not only confiscated all the millions of German Reich patents in Berlin, but also, as one of their first actions in Munich, recording devices with newly developed oxide technology, a milestone back then.
    In post-war Germany, many were fascinated by American jazz music, which finally revealed a touch of freedom, democratic society and coolness. Well, the preceding Weimar Republic had already been a democracy with almost unheard-of personal freedoms, at least in the capital Berlin. During the Third Reich some art forms were arbitrarily declared as 'degenerate', and for years brutally suppressed and defamed.
    The sound ideal of the war winner - and after the war most Germans just wanted to forget and live again, rather belong to the winner than to the humiliated loser - consisted of the AFN broadcasting in my youth: only to be heard louder, extremely bass-heavy, the mids not resolved very finely, the highs not pronounced, the sound character anything but clear ... as I said, not all older people, but young people loved this, it was their sound of freedom and a new age.

    I still remember how amazed I’d always been to listen to the old SABA tube radio when visiting my grandparents, the sound of which embodied the opposite of AFN: very balanced, transparent and crystal clear with fine resolution even at low or high volume, and this with a pleasant basic warmth of the sound. Later I learned that many American jazz musicians valued the MPS Records (MPS Records - Wikipedia ), the successor of the SABA Records label, for exactly the same reasons, and that the Blue Note Records founders had always placed above-average value on sound quality.

    What does this have to do with Artur Lang's archtop guitars?
    Well, his instruments in their class embody all of these latter sound virtues, which have now almost died out in the digital constant swirl: transparency, good tone selectivity and projection, pronounced mids and clear highs with a pleasantly warm and balanced basic sound across the entire fingerboard. If you are looking for a pronounced bass range and the moldy thunk or mushy sound that some people adore so much, you are wrong with Lang guitars! And even with the Langs you often have to turn the bass back further.
    Some here seem to keep asking themselves why their electro-acoustic guitars sound so standardized and undifferentiated, with little individuality of the instruments and lacking acoustic dynamic range. The obvious answer is: it can only be due to the construction of these guitars and / or amplifiers.


    There is also a lot to explain regarding the tube amplifier construction. In America hardly ever fabulous ECC808 were installed in the pre-stage and EL503 in the output stage (Telefunken, Siemens, Valvo, Lorenz). Admittedly, these tubes are precious, and some only use them in the studio or at home. But this is exactly what they have in common with Lang guitars: anyone who has ever played an excellently tuned Lang on a corresponding Hohner Orgaphon MH amplifier, and does not necessarily want to belong to the group of thunk and mud supporters, can really only wonder why his mind hasn't already be open much earlier to constructions that could open up another world of sound. Btw., some of these 1960's Hohners had an "American" sound switch, so its developers must have been aware of the basic sound preferences.

    One question has occupied me for a long time, especially as an outspoken fan of bebop and hardbop, and not only with the ears of a saxophonist: why do so many players go to great lengths to acquire a vintage guitar, not just in financial terms, but also subsequent mods and pickup changing, just to come close enough to the sound of their great musician role models - yet under the above-mentioned sound aspects it must be classified at best as so-so?
    For the rare Lang players (sometimes their scarcity looks like a blessing, sometimes a curse) the most understandable thing would be the fact that the hero musicians in jazz could hardly earn so much money to be able to afford other guitars, and were often dependent on endorsement contracts from the manufacturer. But today, in the 3rd millennium with - compared to the 1950s - for many residents of western countries globally so immensely expanded opportunities, in an on average far more affluent generation of heirs, shouldn't we think more, instead of less, of the bigger picture? Instead, in some places there is more and more omphaloskepsis, self-deception and purely commercial considerations as real interest, and, although the general interest in archtop guitars fortunately seems to be growing again: the knowledge about the application of violin making to the acoustic optimization of (electro) acoustic archtop guitars beyond the rusty rails has always been limited; it seems to be stagnating at best.


    Discussions about Lang Guitars? Yes, please, I like to listen - but please not under the aspect of the two and a half most frequently asked questions: What do I have, what is it worth (and how do I best turn it into money)?
    According to many years of experience, web pages and fora are, IMO, completely unsuitable for discussions going into constructive finer details. Such matters can only be discussed in face-to-face meetings under the desirable civilized and friendly conditions.
    Last edited by Ol' Fret; 09-02-2020 at 04:13 AM.

  10. #59

    User Info Menu

    Thanks, Ol' Fret, for the insight into post-war music and sound reproduction. I had no idea about any of this.
    However, the odds of me flying to Germany are pretty slim right now so I'll have to rely on internet discussions.

  11. #60

    User Info Menu

    Some may have noticed: the gradual publication of a masterpiece of its own is under way.

    Artur Lang Gitarren – Herbert Rittinger

  12. #61

    User Info Menu

    Hooray for Google Translate!

  13. #62

    User Info Menu

    Thanks for mentioning this, Ol’ Fret!

  14. #63

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by cmajor9
    Thanks for mentioning this, Ol’ Fret!

    You're welcome, cmajor9!


    An English translation by ... uh, oh ... will follow around the 50th anniversary of Lang's death.
    According to the importance of Artur Lang as the best German archtop guitar maker, I tried to type this translation in a posh accent, but somehow it doesn't work out. Brian Sewell (RIP), the most famous and controversial British art critic, was always my role model when it comes to English accent - hehe:

    Last edited by Ol' Fret; 10-03-2020 at 07:19 AM.

  15. #64

    User Info Menu

    In all of my 35 + years as a pro player I have met only ONE fellow pro player who actually uses a LANG archtop. He had ordered it from the man himself, a long time ago and interestingly enough, the guitar has undergone several modifications in it's lifespan all in the attempt to get it to sound more like an electric archtop ... the owner even had the top routed out for a large humbucker at the neck, along with holes for the volume and tone pots. These mods have since been revoked, the holes have been plugged and the guitar now has a Johnny Smith style floating pickup attached to the fingerboard. We always referred to this guitar as "the layer cake" due to the decorative stripes of binding on the rims ....

    I kick myself for having passed up several occasions where I could have bought such a guitar for a reasonable price - I could put it to very good use now in just the way it was meant to : as an acoustic rhythm guitar in an Old Time/Swing setting. With a floating pickup / mini-microphone combo into my Bud amp it would easily cover all the bases ....
    Attached Images Attached Images Artur Lang Archtop-bildschirmfoto-2020-10-03-um-12-51-37-jpg 

  16. #65

    User Info Menu

    << In all of my 35 + years as a pro player I have met only ONE fellow pro player who actually uses a LANG archtop. >>


    Most German jazz guitars pros have never hold a Artur Lang archtop in their hands; quite a few have never heard of this name.
    The number of those pros who once owned and played a Lang in order to swap it for a model with the big G in the 1980s is increasing inexorably - and who would do nothing better than to undo it. Most of them are old though experienced geezers now.

    Gunter 'Ruit' Kraus has always been an exception in the German area: Gitarren | Jazz for You

  17. #66

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Ol' Fret
    << In all of my 35 + years as a pro player I have met only ONE fellow pro player who actually uses a LANG archtop. >>


    Most German jazz guitars pros have never hold a Artur Lang archtop in their hands; quite a few have never heard of this name.
    The number of those pros who once owned and played a Lang in order to swap it for a model with the big G in the 1980s is increasing inexorably - and who would do nothing better than to undo it. Most of them are old though experienced geezers now.

    Gunter 'Ruit' Kraus has always been an exception in the German area: Gitarren | Jazz for You

    I consider myself experienced but in NO WAY am I a geezer .....
    Been playing with Gunter off and on for close to 30 years now.....

  18. #67

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by gitman
    I consider myself experienced but in NO WAY am I a geezer .....
    Been playing with Gunter off and on for close to 30 years now.....

    Bwahaha - we could well be in the same age group, and I'm definitely an old geezer! What a tender word of endearment, so much better sounding than the corresponding German "alter Knacker".
    According to the poll about the average age of the forum members, I'm not alone in this ... other wise this would be a topic of the next song to be written entitled: Where have all the geezers gone?!




    << I could put it to very good use now in just the way it was meant to : as an acoustic rhythm guitar in an Old Time/Swing setting >>

    Um, well, a bit frowning here. Even most Lang big-body flagship guitars originally came with a pickup supplied by the master himself. Lang's small body models (shorthand symbols given by HR: HMS1, HML1, HMDL, HMDK) are the epitome of fine electric thinline or semi-acoustic guitars - not only in Germany.



  19. #68

    User Info Menu

    Well I have to say I find this a little dramatic
    I am the individual selling that Lang guitar, So if you want to bash me about it, maybe question me first in private before you go public with all your mistaken assumptions. You commented on my breeding, yes? I tried to get a hold of you in a PM first..because I think airing grievances in public with insufficient information is impolite. I tried, but I'm blocked.

    I really enjoyed my conversations with you about the Lang and about my Hoyer Special (which I can afford to keep during these times as I bought it as a fixer upper). I thought we were talking about guitars for fun and you enjoyed sharing your knowledge.I did ask you about the Langs price, Why not? You said you and your friend wouldn't pay more than a certain amount but if I waited I could sell it for more(basically what I had it up for in my ad)

    The Langs price tag (which I had to get my brother to go in on) kind of freaked me out after I bought it. It was pretty well all my available money and a bit of a rash purchase. I don't normally own super expensive guitars. (however I do have quality playable instruments). It made me nervous and after playing it a fair amount, despite it's superlative sound, I found the narrow neck was not for me. (it's actually a fast slender comfy neck but I couldn't get used to the tight string spacing and there was no room to expand it. My fingers are the hands of some who likes to build and craft things, so they aren't exactly slender) I thought of keeping it as an investment but part of the reason I bought it was because it had been sitting in the house of a non-guitar player for years and years, never having left it's case. I didn't want to be that person, guitars, in my opinion, are meant to be played. I don't have any friends with thousands to drop on a guitar! Sorry!

    One thing I'm not understanding is that it is bad to potentially make money off of an instrument? I had found the rare fine instrument, I had risked mine and my brothers funds in acquiring it , I decided it was a rash purchase for me financially and it didn't suit me, and then if I try to sell it. Big deal?
    If it wasn't for me it'd still be at that guy's house. He didn't sell it to me for a song he kept insisting it was worth $10,000!!! That he had it appraised by a guy from London etc. etc. He wasn't exactly a pushover.

    Did you notice my add was in CAN $$ (NOT US) and do the conversion???


    No fair and respectful behaviour towards the information provider, isn't it?
    (Did you want a commission?)

    As far as common modern behaviours go what is really disturbing is the ease at which people dump %^$^&%$ on each other on forums. they're faceless, usually a zillion miles away, so why not bash the person in public based upon a bunch of assumptions and a knee jerk reaction?

    If you have a grievance at least try to sort it out privately first. maybe you don't know all the facts?
    I think this applies to below. For example when you comment on peoples breeding, or claim they are selfish etc. You should meet my fine parents (in their late 80s now sadly) and talk to them about me. You might be surprised.

    Also I did tonnes of my own research, Your information was a part of what I put in my ad. Should I contact every site I saw with Lang information and ask them if I can put their publicly posted information in my ad?? When you sell something rare and cool you have to inform people about it, otherwise they won't know. You have to research to get the information.
    What's the problem here??

    I guess I am not worthy of owning a Lang, Fine! I'm also not worthy (read financially capable) of owning a D'angelico. a Gibson super 400, an L-5, a byrdland, a masserati, Most vintage Martins, vintage Lotus's, a small island in the tropics etc,. etc. So I'm poor stupid musician. Sue me.

    P.S. You forgot to say I let you use my pictures and information regarding the guitar on your friend's website promoting Lang guitars.


    Such behavior is piling up recently. (like faceless internet bashing!!!)Another inquirer promptly posted my more detailed email reply by name and word-for-word to the next best corresponding F*c*book forum, without my knowledge. I cannot say whether such people simply never had the chance of getting a good breeding in their life, or whether they are simply selfish or pecuniary.

    While I am largely indifferent to such behavior with almost all guitar brands, I'm not with Artur Lang guitars. Anyone who sells a Langguitar without external necessity (ooops!! I'm not rich!)has never deserved one and will probably never delve deeper into Lang's work! To whom e.g. a custom-made Lang guitar neck is not suitable, please ask friends / guitarists if someone would be suitable, take your time for at least half a year, and don't try to capitalize on other people's knowledge.

  20. #69

    User Info Menu

    What now, stop spreading falsehoods here - and get a life!

  21. #70

    User Info Menu

    What Falsehoods?

    I quoted you directly from your post and told you the reality of the situation as it pertains to me.

    Something you didn't bother to look into when you decided to bash me online.

    Next to indiscriminate online bashing, another deplorable common modern behaviour is, when you don't have a proper or valid response (because the reality of the situation doesn't match your fabrication) you pile on random insults.(see above post)

    If you are going to slur someone's character without all the facts you should expect a response.