The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    I think your challenge is going to be the absence of visible damage to the shipping carton. It's going to be difficult, if at all possible for you to prove they caused the damage. So, when you asked them 3 times if THEY break the guitar will they pay for it . . how will you prove THEY broke the guitar? I think the best thing you can hope for here, is that they settle with you just to avoid the hassle of litigating your small claims court efforts.

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  3. #27

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    I know this wont help now but this is why I always take videos. Videos of packing and videos of unboxing. Very hard to deny a video, especially when you reference the persons (recipients name) in the process and or link it to the sale you advertised.

    Obviously in this case that wont work as you did not advertise it, although you should be able to provide proof of the communication between you and the other guy, that will be enough to put a ruff date.

    Anyway this info I guess is more for those and yourself in the future.

    A companies position is to always deny first, did you not see that film with Matt Daemon? He's a lawyer and one his first major case against an insurer who's first policy was always to deny or refuse a claim, it seems standard practice in the U:S

    I would ignore that and continue to pursue.

    Good film to it was called the 'Rainmaker'

  4. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchtopHeaven
    I know this wont help now but this is why I always take videos. Videos of packing and videos of unboxing.
    i thought i was the only one that did this. i hate having to set everything up and not knock the tripod over whilst i wrestle the giant box. there's probably thrilling video of the last several guitars i've bought taking up space on my hard drive somewhere.

    never had an incident, but i've been fortunate.

  5. #29

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    was this the tal farlow? If so, it would be the first time I've ever heard of a maple neck (much less a 5pc) break off at the headstock

  6. #30
    Yes Jack. The only good thing I have going for me is I have been shipping guitars though this UPS store for many years and the manager knows me very well and how many guitars I have shipped without any incident. He did say he would fight for me but all and all it is looking like it's not going to be good for a boy named Vinny. I am super depressed as is our other good friend. I can't even play guitar at all right now. Too bummed. Our friend said not to post this but I just felt I needed to. He said I would probably be blamed for improper packing. Please no dog kicking right now. My hope is for some good law advice.

  7. #31

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    Sorry to hear about the Tal. It might be useful to post this on TGP. There are some very savvy people there that might be able to help you.
    Good luck!

  8. #32

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    My 2 cents: Spend the money and get a consultation from a good civil litigation attorney. Even if you then go after them alone, with the dollars involved it would be good to get a consult on how to prepare and your options. If you purchased their insurance and they are found to be declining the claim in "bad faith", then they can be exposed to significant additional liability. These laws change from state to state, so you need to get thoughts from someone in your jurisdiction. Good luck -- and be persistent!

  9. #33

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    very sorry to hear that Vinny. Can you post a picture? I can't imagine the type of impact it would take to break a 5pc maple neck unless it was super thin at the headstock.

  10. #34
    Thank you Jack !!! I will post a bunch of pics as soon as I get the guitar back. I will say it has a thinner neck than usual for a Tal. Broke right at the base of the headstock right at the thinnest part right behind the nut.

  11. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    Thank you Jack !!! I will post a bunch of pics as soon as I get the guitar back. I will say it has a thinner neck than usual for a Tal. Broke right at the base of the headstock right at the thinnest part right behind the nut.
    Vinny, does that not involve shipping the TF back to you? Will shipping it back to you not negate your claim on insurance? Won't the claim investigator want to inspect it at its final point of delivery? What happens if something breaks again on its journey back to you? What is UPS going to say to you when you tell them that you are shipping a guitar with a broken neck?

    It gets messy, doesn't it?

    Edit: I may have misread you and if I have, please do pardon me.
    Last edited by Jabberwocky; 05-06-2015 at 02:22 PM.

  12. #36

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    I'm real sorry to hear two stand up guys here had this happen to them. I had UPS lose a guitar that was sent via a UPS Store and the Store stepped in after lots of hassling and got an investigation going for me. It was coming from Florida to Jersey. Watching the tracking I saw it take an unusual stop the day before it was to arrive. Instead of going to Kearny it landed outside Philly and then stalled. About a month later a woman from Lost Parcels called me from Missouri, she asked if I could describe the guitar and of course I had the ad and knew it had a small felt bag of picks in the guitar case pocket. Once she had the ad with the photos and found the felt bag it was overnighted to me and wasn't a scratch on the guitar. The case box had been demolished by some mishandling and the seller hadn't put a 2nd shipping label in the guitar case (as I'd asked him to)...

    Just keep hassling them. Human nature is they tell you to go away until they get tired of you constantly calling. And being you have such rhythm with this UPS Store being such a frequent customer hopefully works to your advantage.

    Also gotta say I really see a lot of class in the way everyone is sticking together here and offering advice and help. Great BB....

    BigMike

  13. #37
    UPS just denied my appeal and is flat out refusing to talk to me. I have no idea at this time where the broken guitar is. UPS guitar shippers beware. I will never ship a guitar again in my life. Guess it's off to small claims court and maybe I will have a 50-50 shot. UPS basically told me they don't care how many guitars I have shipped in the past, they didn't break it. Either I did or the receiver broke it. Nightmare on Vinny Street.

  14. #38

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    on a side note, I once bought an amp from a guy cross country and it arrived w/a shattered baffle and both speakers damaged. crappy packing job by him and abuse of the package by UPS.

    UPS told me to have the shipper issue a call tag and it was picked up and returned to the seller.
    then the seller refused to send me my $ back ater UPS reimbursed him--AND he got to keep the amp.

    it took 6 months and the threat of a lawsuit for him to finally pony up.

  15. #39

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    I'll be honest, I've shipped and received dozens of guitars - many using UPS - and after reading about their response to you, I'll never use them again. They can suck it. You can quote me and post it whereever you want.

    I really hope you get this worked out to some degree of fairness.

  16. #40

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    I promised myself and Vinny that I would stay out of any public commenting on this until it was solved. I cant do that now, because its not fair to Vinny for me to stay silent on this.

    Let me 1st say, Vinny is not at fault. He is a top flight guy and he should not be questioned about his packing job. Period. Outside of the Guitar case, Vinny packed the guitar exactly the way Gibson sends it out. Inside the guitar case, he enhanced the way Gibson sends it out by adding additional padding around the area of the headstock compartment. Please, no pontification here questioning Vinnys packing job. It wasn't his fault.

    I think it should be noted that the majority of the Guitars that I've seen that have headstock breaks are Gibsons. The angle of the headstock and the fact that they use one continuous piece of wood (laminated or not in the linear direction) from the base of the neck all the way up to the tip of the headstock might have something to do with this, but don't take my word for it, I am not an expert.

    This whole ordeal has been a nightmare. I know the only reason Vinny decided to post his feelings here is because he wanted to make sure all the rest of people here on this site were protected against the possibility of this happening to them. The dude is a saint. I am glad I know him. I was testy with him once early on when I thought he was unfairly criticizing Gibson and I regret doing that. He doesn't have a bad bone in his body.

    Through this whole ordeal all he kept saying to me is he will make sure if anyone has to take a loss on this, it will be him. To me, there is no better person to deal with. Just yesterday, he sent me an EMail and said the next time he is on the east coast, he wants to take me to dinner.

    Vinny you are a good man.

    UPS, you suck. There is no other way to put it.

    Joe D.

  17. #41
    Joe, Thank you !!! and I love you bro. One positive thing happened out of all this. I have a great friend in Jersey now. I hope someday we can sit down together and belt out a couple tunes. Hey maybe the new Herb & Joe ? :-) Seriously I don't know who has been eating more tums over this, me or Joe. Joe great respect back at you and you are a wonderful jazz guitarist too. Johnny Smith is smiling down from heaven I am sure.

  18. #42

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    It is my understanding that if you let UPS does the packing they are much better about coming through with the insurance when something is broken in shipment.

    It costs more money to have them pack it, but supposedly the coverage is better in case of damage.

    Has anyone had issues when UPS did the packing?

    Problem is that there are plenty of stories on the internet like this from Fed Ex and UPS ....

    I'm sure the post office users have some horror stories as well.

  19. #43

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    Vinny it breaks my heart to hear of the damage to the guitar. And worse the way ups is treating you. Hang in there Bro. If f##kers won't do the right thing then let there be litigation. Be a pain in their ass. Greed has no conscience. Keep the faith my friend.

  20. #44

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    litigation is unlikely to help. UPS has corporate attorneys on staff. When you agree to ship via ups or fedex you are implicitly agreeing to the terms of their service.

  21. #45

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    I bought a new guitar from a dealer 7 years ago. It came with a hole in the box and a dent in the HSC. I took photos and sent it to UPS and they sent me a check for the cost of a new Gibson HSC (full MSP) and instructed me to drop off the damaged case at one of their stores. I bought a new case at a discount and pocketed the difference (thirty bucks or so) which I figured was due me for the inconvenience of it all. I have been using FEDEX since. They open the box and check my packing job every time I insure a guitar or amp for more than $200. I have thought if something goes wrong, I can make them pay.

    Reading this thread makes me want to only buy and sell locally. High EBay fees have already slowed my buying and selling down in any case.

    @Vinnyv1K I used to practice law and am still licensed here in California (I am a Bay Area local). PM me for my phone number. I have some ideas for you and the consultation is free.

    Cheers,

    Marc

  22. #46

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    Guys DO NOT GIVE UP!!! Keep going up the corporate ladder. Keep your photos (which will be time stamped), keep all correspondence and get the name and cobtact information of everyone at UPS you talk to. When you strip away their anonymity you make them more accountable. File a claim in small claims court if necessary.

    best of luck to you both!

  23. #47
    WOW Stringswinger THANK YOU !!!!! pm sent....... Vinny

  24. #48

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    Don't give up the ship, Vinny.

  25. #49

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    Very kind of you Stringswinger.

  26. #50

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    Vinny and I have talked. I have advised him on how to prepare a solid case for Small Claims Court. I believe that it will be a pain in the ass for him to prosecute his case, but that he will get full or partial relief either by adjudication or settlement.

    At this point, he should not say anything further about this case (nor should Joe) until the matter is concluded.

    Lets all just wish him the best of luck!

    Cheers,

    Marc

    PS. Vinny, you have to let us know how this thing turns out. There are a lot of guys on this forum Hoping that you get the justice you deserve...