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  1. #101

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    It's all about mitigation of risks. 2-Day Air, 5-day Ground, Next Day...it's all in the hands of your handler. I have had air-freight parcels which look to have fallen off a great height. Somewhere along the line, your parcel gets aboard a truck/lorry on its way to you. There is no avoiding ground handling and hence, a ground handler. So, 2-Day Air is no guarantee. Shorter handling time, yes. Better handling care, debatable.

    I buy a piece of 3M bathtub sponge, wrap it in Japanese tissue or acid-free paper and place it in the headstock pocket to support the part where the neck segues to the headstock. Whiplash damages more guitars than any other form of damage. The other danger spot is the endpin. Remove the endpin before you ship it, if it is removable. I don't understand cases where thick cushioning is provided all round and then they leave a pocket for the endpin. When that endpin meets the wall of the case, guess where that impact force goes to? I eschew endpins for that reason and insist on playing sitting down.

    As for leaving the guitar or musical instrument in the hands of UPS or FedEX to pack because then they honour the insurance claim, not if you value shipping or receiving a damage-free guitar at the end of its journey. Those fellows aren't trained to pack instruments. It is just another profit-centre for the freight companies. The whole point of the exercise is not to file an insurance claim. When shite happens, be ready for another round of denials. The freight companies have done their actuarial analysis. They know the probabilities. Far better to pack the guitar yourself because you know how to do it and insure the parcel with your home insurer or a 3rd party insurer such as Heritage. You improve your odds when you pack it yourself.
    Last edited by Jabberwocky; 05-14-2015 at 12:34 AM.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #102

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    Personally, most times I double box whatever I ship. I use the space between boxes to create an absorption layer for the inner box to float in.

  4. #103
    Trial date is 7/14/15. Prayers & good thoughts my JGF friends.

  5. #104

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    Best of luck partner. Prayers and good vibes for a just outcome.

  6. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    Trial date is 7/14/15. Prayers & good thoughts my JGF friends.
    May the wind always be at your back. Go for it! Don't give up the ship, Vinny.

  7. #106

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    Best of luck Vinny, we'll be watching and rooting.

  8. #107

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    Will this be televised? :-))

    Jokes aside best of luck to you.

  9. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    Trial date is 7/14/15. Prayers & good thoughts my JGF friends.
    All the best to you, Vinny! Many good thoughts sent your way!

  10. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    Trial date is 7/14/15. Prayers & good thoughts my JGF friends.
    Give 'em hell, V-man. For all of us.

  11. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    Trial date is 7/14/15. Prayers & good thoughts my JGF friends.
    Godspeed, Vinny! Let us know how it turns out.

  12. #111
    and Thank you Mark for the great job you do here at JGF !

  13. #112

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    UPS Guitar Shipping Advice-wapner_5-jpg

    Rooting for ya Vinny!

  14. #113
    Bumping this as the plot thickens with UPS.

  15. #114

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    Be patient and steadfast. I think things will turn out OK.

  16. #115

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    You've got the truth on your side Vinny...you can't lose!

  17. #116

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    As a result of this thread, I will never use UPS EVER again. I am certain that the lost business from my sphere of influence alone has cost UPS more than the denied claim. You just don't hear these kinds of stories about FedEx.

    Give 'em hell Vinny!

  18. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by kid335
    As a result of this thread, I will never use UPS EVER again. I am certain that the lost business from my sphere of influence alone has cost UPS more than the denied claim. You just don't hear these kinds of stories about FedEx.

    Give 'em hell Vinny!
    Quite a while back I switched to FedEx Ground. Glad I did. Unfortunately I don't have that kind of control when buying. But I always tell my seller that I'd prefer they shipped via FedEx over UPS if they are reasonably able to do so. I just bought a git from CA (I am in NY) and got the guy to switch for me. Turns out his FedEx place is 5 min from him and he was happy about it.

  19. #118

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    For ages I was a hard core USPS Express Mail fanboy. Back in the early 2000's if you got your parcel there before a set time (1pm for some delivery locations, 3pm for others) you were guaranteed 12:00 Noon Delivery, in some exceptions 3pm Delivery, but based on the zip code they would tell you at the desk. If they failed to deliver that Next Day you got your money back... I only went after my money back deal once, but what I liked I was 2nd shift, and I was home until 3pm before I left for work, so if I had a guitar coming it would be here before Noon. I was quite generous with all the delivery guys with cuban cigars (still am) and they'd go out of their way to come early, the local P.O. literally was down the hill from me...

    Then about 2005 things changed and they'd drop the ball on some of the deliveries and it would come the NEXT morning after the delivery date. I still use Express Mail to have chickens and roosters delivered to me. I get a call from the P.O. at 5am and I can hear the doggone rooster in the background crowing... That never failed, the shipper always packed some sliced apples and feed in the carrier box and they'd be happy as clams, though maybe a little travel weary. This is Crink the Rooster, a kind lady gave him to me because of the little crink in his neck. He was really good with my hens. We lost him to a red hawk while he defended his girls...

    UPS Guitar Shipping Advice-1379978_10151820842717239_392364420_n-jpg


    You know we're all dying to hear the news, but understand you are keeping progress on the down low, just know we're all pulling for you.

    Mike

  20. #119

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    Now that's a man from New Jersey right there.
    Big Mike, Thanks for showing the world what most of the people here are all about.
    See, we are NOT all a bunch of Hoodlums..

    Vinny, IF they only knew how nice a guy you are, they wouldn't be putting you through all this. I really mean it.
    Stay strong. You gentle Oak you..

    Joe D.

  21. #120

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    Very sorry to read about your troubles, and I hope it all turns out OK. I've shipped about 55 guitars in the last 8 years, and have had a few issues of my own. Unfortunately, I've found that UPS is no better or worse than the other guys when it comes to claims. I've lost money on a few deals too, and it's certainly no fun. But wow, two guitars both damaged in a trade! Even with the shippers' heavy hands, that seems like an unfortunate one-in-a-million

    What I've found works the best, by far, is to take expensive guitars somewhere like Pak Mail and have them package and ship it for you. When they do the packing, they cover the shipment with their own insurance (on top of the carrier's insurance). I had an incident a few years ago where this saved my butt. The carrier denied the claim, and Pak Mail owned up no questions asked, and provided me with a check for the complete value of the guitar. Working with them was downright pleasant. Of course, shipping this way isn't cheap, so I typically only do so on more expensive guitars.

    Again, sorry to hear about your issues, and hopefully they are fully resolved soon.

  22. #121

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    Vinny.

    Great working with you last night about the Jensen speaker. Very excited!

    Now about you UPS nightmare, it is not just limited to UPS! When Bob Benedetto built my 7 string 18" La Venetzia he sent that Fed Ex.

    It arrived with the pick guard broken off from it's little neck attached mount and was just freely moving about the case. I almost threw up when i saw this. Very fortunately there was only the tiniest of damage and Bob was able to fix it up and send it back with another carrier I believe.

    I am on pins and needle now because I have my just born Benedetto Bravo semi-deluxe being shipped (by Fed Ex) next week. Via 3 day shipping. Yikes! But that is how they normally do it, so I'm rolling with it. It would be an additional $150.00 for overnight, which would be $150.00 closer to divorce :-0

    Jonathan

  23. #122

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    It usually is a whiplash (brisk acceleration-deceleration) event that snaps the headstock. Gibsons and Heritages are famously prone to this damage, at least in part due to the larger truss rod nut cavity. Heavier headstocks may play a role also.

    Loosening the strings prior to shipping is a common practice. That might be somewhat helpful if the guitar falls forward but is counterproductive if it falls backward. So it's a wash, at least from the headstock fracture perspective.

    Securely packing the headstock area into the case probably is helpful but still is no guarantee. The fracture comes from the momentary strain, not movement, of the neck/headstock joint.

    My background is in the biomechanics of human trauma. But several years ago I had one of my Heritages get decapitated during shipping. I had to do enough research to present my case solidly to FedEx. That included getting two repair quotes.

    Heritage provided a quote for me. In the process I talked with Vince Margol, one of the principals at Heritage and a practicing lawyer. He told me that it was all but futile to pursue my case against FedEx. Heritage has had many snapped headstocks over the years and never received compensation. He said that all carriers were equally obstinate.

    Well, I did prevail. FedEx paid the full amount to reneck the guitar. I didn't do it though. Instead, I sold the broken guitar to a friend who then had it renecked at a lower cost by Aaron Cowles, a very smart choice IMO.

    Since then I've had a few brushes with UPS and FedEx. They have paid. Much of that may just be luck.

    I try to minimize shipping due to the costs and risks. These shipping disasters are an indirect consequence of GAS in most cases. And for that there is no cure.

    I'll add one more story for the benefit of the readers. I got a guitar on eBay. The seller agreed to ship the guitar with my shipping label from my commercial FedEx account. That saved some money for both of us, since getting the shipping label through eBay incurred an extra PayPal fee. The seller simply printed the label that I emailed him. He took it to FedEx with the guitar. The FedEx agent stuck the label on the guitar case and sent it unpacked.

    The guitar arrived damaged. I contacted PayPal to dispute the transaction, stating the guitar arrived damaged. PP considered my purchase a local pickup because I didn't do shipping through them. Therefore I accepted the condition of the guitar and was not entitled to any consideration.

    After an immense amount of work and two months, they paid.

    The take away from that is that your rights regarding shipping are waived if you don't pay for shipping through PP.

    I will follow your case with keen interest and hope for a favorable outcome. It sucks.

  24. #123

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    So what are we paying for when we ship a Guitar and pay the extra for what we think is Insurance?
    That's the problem here. If someone pays for insurance, which is a fluid number that varies based on the value of the guitar, what are we paying for? Is this a cost to us that becomes a 100% profit margin figure for the shipping company?

    Hopefully the judge who punted on this one is doing his homework and is ready to respond fairly this the 2nd time around. Perhaps he needs to see if a precedent was set and then he/she will make the proper judgement.

    I guarantee that if Shippers stopped taking our insurance payments and told us upfront that they couldn't insure the shipment in good faith, we would look for another entity who would.

    Its not fair that UPS or anyone else for that matter will take your money, and not be clear with you on what your coverage is. That's the part that is wrong.

    MartyGrass, thanks for giving us an extremely well thought out assessment here. At least someone understands the science behind why this happens. It sounds to me that a very oversized box FILLED with packing peanuts is the only way to cushion the whiplash effect. From now on, that's how I will ship guitars.

    Joe D.

  25. #124

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    Here's what I do (again) which should make it almost impossible for the shipping company to get out of paying.

    When I pack a guitar, I take a video of the guitar in its condition whilst I pack it. I then whilst filming distinctly use the buyers name as this dates the video conclusively (no phone software tampering can be used to wiggle).

    So now you have the condition it was sent in a date time the video was taken because you used the buyers name. They can see the whole packing process on film.

    When the seller receives it, I ask them to expressly take pictures of the box and the guitar as they open it. If they can do a video, even better.

    The only other thing they could claim is that the case or guitar in the case wasn't packed properly, so thats why you take extra effort to pads it out with Bubble in the weak areas. You then use a double walled box with extra packing in the weak areas.

    There is almost no way a company could get out of this. Even they would look at all this evidence and go 'ok you win'

    If heritage ship guitars and cant claim the insurance then they are absolute fools or dont care about money, one of the two.

    You just have to be diligent and know the arguments they will use against you. If you cover yourself from those arguments being valid, what can they do?

    Heck I shipped my L5 in its case yesterday surrounded in air tuples and some extra padding inside (Gibson case are pretty bad). Guitar arrived perfectly. Didn't even put it in a box!

    Oh and lastly I think one of the issues with Gibson and Heritage headstocks breaking, is that they have too much pitch on the headstock which makes the area even weaker.

    I wonder how many Guilds arrive with broken headstocks?
    Last edited by ArchtopHeaven; 07-16-2015 at 01:44 PM.

  26. #125
    Joe, just be clear the judge didn't punt. He wanted us to come to some sort of a meet in the middle agreement which UPS refused to do. I would have agreed to that. The judge was being very fair and professional and knew the law very well. It was then that UPS demanded a new judge for our case and refused to discuss our case with this judge. So back we go again on the 24th with a new judge. I don't know how many times UPS can demand a different judge but I would suspect if they do it again it will anger the new judge and the court greatly.

  27. #126

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    I had no idea UPS demanded the new Judge. UPS has a set of balls on them, huh.. Wow.

  28. #127

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    Best of luck, Vinny. I hope sanity prevails. Lots of people pulling for you!

  29. #128

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    I report, you decide. Vince Margol is my source on that re: Heritage and shipping insurance.

    In a related story, Heritage has been ghost building for D'Angelico again in very small numbers. Several of these were returned to Heritage, one with a broken headstock and one with a broken neck pocket. The way the damage looked suggested it was sabotage, so I'm told (not by Vince).

    That opened a surprising conversation. It appears that some who receive guitars have buyer's remorse and break them upon receipt in order to return them. Sometimes it's obvious, others it is questionable. Apparently this is not a new problem for guitar builders.

    The guy I talked to had to reneck the two D'Angelicos, which was heartbreaking. These are hand built and labor intensive.

    It's a sick world.


    Quote Originally Posted by ArchtopHeaven

    If heritage ship guitars and cant claim the insurance then they are absolute fools or dont care about money, one of the two.

  30. #129

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    Vinny, you've taken it farther than most, for sure. I admire you for that. And I know how you feel. At a certain point it is not about money. It's principle. And when you get some people pissed, they become relentless.

    If I were your lawyer, and I'm not one bit qualified, I'd suggest that you discuss a settlement with "the good cop" at UPS, if you know one. They know you're serious and should be ready to get rid of this matter.

    But I'd love for you to prevail in court.

  31. #130
    Marty no "good cop" to be found. Believe me I tried. It has now gone far beyond any monetary compensation for me now. I just cannot let a company like this get away with blatant criminal behavior stepping on the little guy like crushing a unwanted bug on your kitchen floor. Plain and simple I am 100% in the right on this matter and I must at least give it my best fight to try and get justice to prevail. What would happen if your parked car got smashed by someone driving by and your insurance company said we are not paying because you shouldn't have parked your car. Ludicrous.

  32. #131

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchtopHeaven
    Here's what I do (again) which should make it almost impossible for the shipping company to get out of paying.

    When I pack a guitar, I take a video of the guitar in its condition whilst I pack it. I then whilst filming distinctly use the buyers name as this dates the video conclusively (no phone software tampering can be used to wiggle).

    So now you have the condition it was sent in a date time the video was taken because you used the buyers name. They can see the whole packing process on film.
    but you've a gap in your evidence trail.

    I appreciate the video effort in an attempt to document your guitars actual condition prying to packaging. Unfortunately for you, the shipper merely has to claim your guitar was damaged by you after you packed it and before it was delivered to the shipper...and the shipper can, and likely will, argue that while they have no proof of their claim that you damaged your guitar prior to it being delivered, but nor do you have proof your guitar was damaged while in transit with the shipper. And the shipper knows there is no such evidentiary trail in court that proves a shippee's, my word, case.

    We're all up against the 8 ball with shipping, and shippers, and the only way to truly protect oneself is to pay for independent insurance by common insurers of guitars, or to contact your agent for your homeowners policy and cover it on that end...I think Patrick mentioned. he has done this several times with actual success.

  33. #132

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Grass
    Vinny, you've taken it farther than most, for sure. I admire you for that. And I know how you feel. At a certain point it is not about money. It's principle. And when you get some people pissed, they become relentless.

    If I were your lawyer, and I'm not one bit qualified, I'd suggest that you discuss a settlement with "the good cop" at UPS, if you know one. They know you're serious and should be ready to get rid of this matter.

    But I'd love for you to prevail in court.
    At some point, UPS is going to weigh the cost of this litigation against a settlement offer. Vinny needs to keep hammering them. And, just like the UPS guy told vinny, that he'll never get a dime . . . vinny needs to make it clear that he ain't goin' away any time soon and he ain't goin' away empty handed. Make it clear that after a final decision is made by whom ever is mediating this now, if it's not to his liking . . . he's fully prepared to take it to the next level. Then, make it clear that he'll be all over social media sharing how unfairly he was treated. Risk management at UPS will dictate any further actions. Sooner or later they'll tell the UPS person in charge to just give the guy his due so he'll go away.

  34. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    Marty no "good cop" to be found. Believe me I tried. It has now gone far beyond any monetary compensation for me now. I just cannot let a company like this get away with blatant criminal behavior stepping on the little guy like crushing a unwanted bug on your kitchen floor. Plain and simple I am 100% in the right on this matter and I must at least give it my best fight to try and get justice to prevail. What would happen if your parked car got smashed by someone driving by and your insurance company said we are not paying because you shouldn't have parked your car. Ludicrous.
    I wish it were a "crime" to pull this Goliath versus David stunt, but companies do this because they know it's not "criminal behavor" they're doing and often times the consequences for them is nil in civil court litigation. Just the same, I applaud you Vinny for giving it your best shot and being heard in open court.

  35. #134

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    I find it interesting that UPS decided to vigorously defend this small potatoes case. I would have to think that attorneys fees and court costs will total more than the original claim amount. It leads me to think that they may be trying to defend this case in order to protect precendence against larger cases. We have all seen the videos of UPS drivers chucking packages over fences and I'm sure their legal teams are panicking.

    This is such a cut and dry case of negligence. Common sense would lead me to think that UPS would want to try to reach a settlement which would include a confidentiality agreement. Instead, they are going to lose the case and will lose exponentially more revenue due to the damage done on social media. Plus, what kind of moron would try to intimidate a guy named Vinny?

  36. #135

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Grass
    I report, you decide. Vince Margol is my source on that re: Heritage and shipping insurance.

    In a related story, Heritage has been ghost building for D'Angelico again in very small numbers. Several of these were returned to Heritage, one with a broken headstock and one with a broken neck pocket. The way the damage looked suggested it was sabotage, so I'm told (not by Vince).

    That opened a surprising conversation. It appears that some who receive guitars have buyer's remorse and break them upon receipt in order to return them. Sometimes it's obvious, others it is questionable. Apparently this is not a new problem for guitar builders.

    The guy I talked to had to reneck the two D'Angelicos, which was heartbreaking. These are hand built and labor intensive.

    It's a sick world.

    I've been a little concerned about this myself although it is high paranoia for sure. Lets not forget your story is anecdotal and we know where that can get us.

    Thats why whenever pos, I get he buyer to arrange shipping. I explained this to a guy recebly who bought my AR305, I said to him

    "You have to arrange postage"

    Buyer'

    "Why

    Me'

    "Because it encourages good behaviour on the buyers part. Do you get what i mean?

    Buyer'

    "No"

    Me'

    "oh, well it stops you from intentionally damaging the guitar (not that you would want to of course) as the insurance claim will be on you".

    Buyer,

    "Oh but hmmm"

    "Me"

    Ok I'll do it this time :-(

    lol

  37. #136
    All the wonderful support I have received from all of you has completely outweighed this UPS nightmare. I feel very blessed and thank you all from the bottom of my heart. I feel now that this is our fight and I am going into the ring for all of us. United we stand and UPS will fall.

  38. #137

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    Martygrass and Archtopheaven
    i assure you in this case, the buyer didn't break the guitar.
    Joe D

  39. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    Joe, just be clear the judge didn't punt. He wanted us to come to some sort of a meet in the middle agreement which UPS refused to do. I would have agreed to that. The judge was being very fair and professional and knew the law very well. It was then that UPS demanded a new judge for our case and refused to discuss our case with this judge. So back we go again on the 24th with a new judge. I don't know how many times UPS can demand a different judge but I would suspect if they do it again it will anger the new judge and the court greatly.
    Interesting feature on being able to 'demand' a new judge. Any of the US lawyers know what the conditions for such application would be? This feature appears odd from a civil procedure perspective, unless the judge's independence is compromised.

  40. #139

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    Joe, just be clear the judge didn't punt. He wanted us to come to some sort of a meet in the middle agreement which UPS refused to do. I would have agreed to that. The judge was being very fair and professional and knew the law very well. It was then that UPS demanded a new judge for our case and refused to discuss our case with this judge. So back we go again on the 24th with a new judge. I don't know how many times UPS can demand a different judge but I would suspect if they do it again it will anger the new judge and the court greatly.
    Well, make it clear that they will be paying court costs and all of your legal expenses as part of the settlement for negligence and wanton damage of property entrusted to them as a common carrier. They, of course, are fighting establishment of precedent.

  41. #140

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    I am assuming that on Vinny's first appearance, he and the UPS representative appeared before a pro tem judge (this is not an actual judge, but a local attorney who volunteers his time to hear these cases (attorneys do this to gain judicial experience, hoping to one day become judges). Both sides have to agree to let the pro-tem judge hear the case if no settlement is reached. Either can ask to have the case heard by a real judge (I assume that the UPS rep wants a real judge and that is why the matter was continued, along with being the usual delay tactic, which sometimes frustrates a plaintiff enough to give up).

    If Vinny Wins in Small Claims Court, UPS can appeal. If Vinny loses, the case is over. Plaintiffs have no right to appeal Small Claims cases.

    No Attorneys are involved in a small claims matter, nor are attorney fees awarded to the prevailing party.

    The next appearance should end this, unless Vinny wins and UPS appeals.

    Then it will take a bit longer for Vinny to win, but win he shall, for justice is on his side.

    I'm still betting that this case settles on the next appearance date.

    Vinny, this is better than watching Perry Mason. We are all waiting on pins and needles....

  42. #141

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    I wish that the styrofoam packaging that Yunzhi and Mr. Wu guitars are shipped in was readily available here. Addresses some, not all, of the potential for damage.

    Really hope this plays out on the side of justice Vinny. We're all rooting for you.


  43. #142

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    All the wonderful support I have received from all of you has completely outweighed this UPS nightmare. I feel very blessed and thank you all from the bottom of my heart. I feel now that this is our fight and I am going into the ring for all of us. United we stand and UPS will fall.
    Would it help for the forum to assist?

    I mean as in a petition or charitable donations for legal aid?

    I'm not sure how the legal system works in the USA but over here in the UK there have been cut backs in legal aid for people not able to afford legal help.

    Well in any case keep on mate and more power to your elbow.

  44. #143

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
    but you've a gap in your evidence trail.

    I appreciate the video effort in an attempt to document your guitars actual condition prying to packaging. Unfortunately for you, the shipper merely has to claim your guitar was damaged by you after you packed it and before it was delivered to the shipper...and the shipper can, and likely will, argue that while they have no proof of their claim that you damaged your guitar prior to it being delivered, but nor do you have proof your guitar was damaged while in transit with the shipper. And the shipper knows there is no such evidentiary trail in court that proves a shippee's, my word, case.

    We're all up against the 8 ball with shipping, and shippers, and the only way to truly protect oneself is to pay for independent insurance by common insurers of guitars, or to contact your agent for your homeowners policy and cover it on that end...I think Patrick mentioned. he has done this several times with actual success.

    I think there gets to a point where you have so much evidence, that the sheer weight of it, makes your case one they wouldn't waist their time fighting.

    Thats the point.

    What motive would you have for breakage the guitar once packed? How would you break the guitar if all it has to do is go from the place you packed it, to the door for collection?

  45. #144
    Martygrass and Archtopheaven
    i assure you in this case, the buyer didn't break the guitar.
    Joe D
    Joe don't even go there bro !!!! Everyone here "KNOWS" you are a stand up guy and I know how much you wanted to have that Tal. You are a good man Mr.D and everyone knows it.

  46. #145

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    Martygrass and Archtopheaven
    i assure you in this case, the buyer didn't break the guitar.
    Joe D
    Joe don't even go there bro !!!! Everyone here "KNOWS" you are a stand up guy and I know how much you wanted to have that Tal. You are a good man Mr.D and everyone knows it.
    Vinny, I appreciate you saying that. I wasn't sure why it was brought up, not once but twice. I think Marty was bringing up a hypothetical situation. Archie might not have known that I was the buyer.

    In any case, What your post has done is it has made all of us aware that this can and will happen if we don't take precautions. We can't pack guitars and ship them the same exact way Gibson does. We have to build a cocoon around them that can withstand drops that create whiplash and leave no obvious signs of damage on the outer carton. We need to tell our buyers that 5 days on a truck will create 5 times the likelihood of damage that one day on an airplane will. We've learned that UPS takes your money for insurance - with no intension of giving you any insurance what-so-ever.

    You've done a lot for a lot of good for people with this post Vinny. Can't thank you enough brother.

    Joe D.

  47. #146

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe DeNisco
    Martygrass and Archtopheaven
    i assure you in this case, the buyer didn't break the guitar.
    Joe D
    Oh I never made any assumption that was the case, in this regard.

    I thought we were taking about the pros and cons of shipping. nothing to do with this :-)

  48. #147

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    Thanks Archie.


    Quote Originally Posted by ArchtopHeaven
    Oh I never made any assumption that was the case, in this regard.

    I thought we were taking about the pros and cons of shipping. nothing to do with this :-)

  49. #148

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    I am very surprised to read this thread.

    Over the past dozen years or so I have purchased several guitars via the Internet. All were delivered in pristine condition by UPS. Never had a problem of any kind.

    Lucky, I guess.

  50. #149

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    I'm glad for you. I can attest that there are not many worse feelings then the feeling that comes over you when you open a case, peel back all the careful wrappings and lift one the most beautiful guitars ever - and you see it's head is broken at the neck. If you love guitars, the feeling never quite goes away.

  51. #150

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    Dear UPS:

    We are all watching how you handle this.

    Love,

    The Internet

    P.S.
    We are on Vinny's side.
    Last edited by Flat; 07-18-2015 at 06:31 PM.