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  1. #1

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    I recently acquired a Gibson L-5 Wes from The Music Zoo.

    I will spare you the hyperbole and just say that I believe that I have finally discovered my optimal instrument. On the last ES 335 I owned I replaced the 57 Classic with a Lollar Imperial and felt that it upgraded the instrument. My Wesmo obviously is a much different instrument than my 335 and I feel that the Classic 57s performs fairly well all in all. They can get a little muddy but I'm not sure how much of that is the inherent L5 tone. I would appreciate hearing from those of you who have swapped out the pups in your L5s.

    My Comins Concert came equipped with a Fralin HB, which I feel is ideal for the transparent tone I enjoy. I have had good experiences with Wolftone Dr. Vintage, THrobak MXV Plus and Lollar Imperials in other guitars. I am also interested to hear about KA pups.

    For those of you who have also replaced the saddles with wood, I would appreciate hearing about the results.

    Thanks,
    Dave

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  3. #2

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    Hi Dave.
    I acquired my new L5CES a year ago ,having been the top of my
    must have list for 30 years, and it is all its cracked up to be.
    Mine has Classic ;57s which suit the guitar very well, for me ,I did
    consider an ebony bridge but discarded that idea and instead changed
    the saddles only to Graphtec which reduce the undesirable metallic
    "ping" with the standard ABR-1 bridge saddles. I tried a Wesmo side by
    side with it, spoilt for choice , like Apples & Oranges I finally chose the
    L5CES.
    You can't go wrong with a Wesmo or an L5CES, IMHO. they are both the
    cat's whiskers,( and I have a number of high quality archtops.)
    I hope you enjoy yours,in fact I'll be very surprised if you don't !


    kind regards

  4. #3

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    I have a 2014 L5 Wes and I feel that the tone knob has enough adjustability in it to vary the sound to suit my taste. I've never felt the sound was muddy at all. In fact, I think the midrange and hi's are very tight. I am waiting for the Guitar to break in, and then the other sound dimensions will come out.

    I have to say, whenever I am done playing my Wes, I put it down and ask myself, "why do I have any other guitars?" I think my Wes is the perfect Guitar for me. I wouldn't change a thing on it. I would let it break in, or as they say, open up.. with the pickups you have.

  5. #4

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    I have both, the L5CES and the L5Wes. I've switched out the TOM saddle for an ebony. I did that almost immediately after receiving each guitar. I've gone back n forth a couple of times with each to see which I prefer. I'm sticking with the ebony.

    Regarding any possible pickup swaps . . Nope!!! I want this guitar to reflect *Gibson* when amplified. The ebony bridge saddle won't change that. It just mellows out the Gibson-esque tone that I love. If I wanted pups that didn't sound Gibson . . I'd not have purchased either of my two L5 guitars. Not sure why you would spend $6,000 on a guitar and then change it to sound like something it wasn't intended to sound like?? It's an absolutely beautiful L5CES, just the way it is. Why would you want to change that?

    I'd suggest that you might want to wait for this brand new guitar to open up, as you indicated that it will, before you make any changes in the pickups. If Classic '57s are sounding muddy to you . . look elsewhere for the problem. Because, it ain't the pups. They're anything but muddy.

  6. #5

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    Don't have an L5CES, but play a similar Heritage Super Eagle. For what it's worth, I've always preferred Seth Lovers to the Gibson Classic '57s. I swapped to the '57s in a Les Paul to get more Gibson correct, and promply missed the Seths. I also swapped out the stock Schallers on my Heritage, which are supposed to be analogous to Classic 57s or SD 59s, for a Seth Lover. I just find the Classic 57's a bit dull, maybe it's the wax potting.

  7. #6

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    I bought a '99 L-5CES from an archtop-savvy retail shop a while back, and discovered later that the '57 Classics had been replaced with Lollar Imperials (not mentioned, or possibly even known to the seller). At the same time, I personally swapped the TOM bridge for a perfectly intonated ebony one.

    I'm sticking with the wood bridge; I feel it adds back a touch of acoustic vibe to the CES. But I'm on the fence with the Lollars. They are clear and clean sounding, but I don't think they give the absolute classic CES sound that one can hear on a million recordings. They're not quite voiced properly for that, and I can't really put my finger on it, except that it's probably a peak frequency thing somewhere in the midrange.

    So my CES still sounds more or less like a CES, but possibly a bit clearer and woodier than the archetypal tone.

  8. #7

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    My L-5CES came with an ebony bridge, but after years of seeing other L5's with a TOM bridge I decided to buy one and try it out. Didn't even last a week with it on. It was way too bright sounding for me. I went back to the original ebony immediately and haven't looked back.

  9. #8

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    Congrats, Dave (kid335).

    First, I'm glad it turned out well for you.

    Second, try swapping the saddles for an ebony one as suggested by rpguitar and wesmont17. Or Graphtec saddles as suggested by silverfoxx or nylon ones as suggested by me. One of them is going to click with you. Try Antonio of www.ultimaguitar.com or William Gagnon for a wooden saddle.

    Third and not least, it is good to hear from rpguitar again.

    Fourth, I left my 2000 L-5CES Wes Montgomery Antique Sunburst Mother-of-Pearl Heart Inlay Limited Edition (whew!) pretty much stock as it is.

    Play it for a while before you make any changes. I have got Classic 57s in all my Gibson archtops which are accoutred with humbuckers. Haven't seen any reason to swap them out...yet.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by ingeneri
    Don't have an L5CES, but play a similar Heritage Super Eagle. For what it's worth, I've always preferred Seth Lovers to the Gibson Classic '57s. I swapped to the '57s in a Les Paul to get more Gibson correct, and promply missed the Seths. I also swapped out the stock Schallers on my Heritage, which are supposed to be analogous to Classic 57s or SD 59s, for a Seth Lover. I just find the Classic 57's a bit dull, maybe it's the wax potting.

    IIRC In the recent past the Burstbucker pickups Gibson installed in their Les Pauls at the factory were not potted ....

    but the aftermarket version of the Burstbuckers were potted.

    The pup for the LPs is now called the Custom Bucker ... not sure about them


    I gotta wonder if the stock factory pups in the Gibson archtops are potted or not???

  11. #10

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    Hi Bluedawg.

    I suspect that the newer Archtops do have unpotted pickups, I have just acquired a 175DN VOS 1959 reissue which has MHS pickups (unpotted).

    One might assume therefore that their other Archtops with MHS designated may also be unpotted ?

  12. #11

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    Don't know if I am qualified to contribute here. I have a Heritage golden Eagle with WesMo specs. It has a Seth Lover pickup and I *love* it. Also have a set of SL's in a Les Paul type guitar and they are just a fantastic PAF style pickups. Have tried so many boutique ones - not necessary, the Seth Lover is just up there - all IMHO of course. The classic 57 is ok though and I probably would not swap it out ... In case you do ... I am with Ingeneri on that - the SL's deliver very classic PAF tone.

  13. #12

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    I've tried all my archtops both ways and currently have 45% of them with ebony tops and the rest with TOMs. Unless I hear a large difference, I usually leave it the way it was made.

    Danny W.

  14. #13
    Wow, great feedback here! Let me first say that "muddy" was a very poor choice of words. I am not very good at describing tone and meant to convey that the 57 may not be as transparent as say a Lollar Imperial. I would not necessarily characterize a more transparent pickup to be a superior quality either. I have owned three guitars equipped with Lollar Imperials with varying success. In some cases, I have enjoyed the "color" of say a Throbak MXV over a more transparent pickup like a Dr V., Fralin, or Lollar.

    Per the overwhelming consensus here, I definitely intend on leaving the 57s alone. I have learned that the enemy of good is better. I don't know if the 57 in my CES is the same 57 that I took out of my 335 (in that case I liked the Lollars better). Admittedly, I may have suffered from a placebo effect and in some ways wish that Gibson would have called the pickups in the L5 something else. I find that the 57s get a pretty bad wrap in some of the other forums. However, there is very little posted anywhere of anyone replacing the 57 in an L5 that proved to be a tonal upgrade. That is why I posted the question here. Thanks for all of the advice here that will save me from chasing a fox down a rabbit hole...or is that a rabbit down a fox hole? Anyways, I appreciate the feedback.

    As for trying out different saddles, I think I will take the advice here and give it a shot in a few months. To me that is almost as easy and inexpensive as trying out different strings. The truth is that it blows my mind how good it is as it sits. To my ear it already sounds like a seasoned instrument, even though it is was pretty much unplayed when I received it last week. I can't imagine what it will sound like in a few years.
    Last edited by kid335; 03-30-2015 at 08:17 PM.

  15. #14

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    I dont have an L5 but I do find Gibson Classic 57's to be muddy, especially dark in the bass and quite brittle in the trebles.

    A nice Ibanez Super 58 would be my choice. Better clarity with the same amount of pop. Much tighter in the bass and rounder in the trebles imo.

    Also put in a colt tap option on a push pull pot, you wont regret it.

  16. #15

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    In every Gibson solid body (and 335 for that matter) I have, I have changed pickups and pots and caps..all with seriously improved results.
    My l5 ces is spot on though..I have no urge to tinker with it.

  17. #16
    Do any of you guys mind sharing close up picks of your wooden bridges? I would also be curious to see the Graphtec saddles that Silverfoxx has on his CES.

  18. #17

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  19. #18

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    just to jump in at this point sir:

    i've had a super 400 with two 57's in it. it was great - in its way.

    if i had your guitar i think i would find it very hard to resist trying the really gorgeous dimarzio anniversary humbucker - which i have in my ls 17. not 'transparant' like the lollar (which i've had varying success with too) - on the 'warm' side like the 57 - but it seems to give me a creamy softness in the attack that i've been looking for a long long time. i'm sure 57's will give you a bit of that - but the dimarzio, in my view based on my experience, does the same thing but a bit better. its aiming to be a thoroughly traditional humbucker - i'm preferring it e.g. to the hand made armstrong paf (a bit too uncolored) - and, as i say, i never got this vibe from the 57's on my super 400 (which i gigged heavily with for five years or so).

  20. #19

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    Your description of the Dimarzio 36 anniversary is exactly the way I would describe the SD Seth Lover.
    Thanks john

  21. #20

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    Patrick2.
    further to the thread re L5CES and suitable bridges. I said that
    I employed Graphtech saddles instead of replacing the TOM
    ABR-1 with an Ebony bridge. In fact I confess i had no success
    here in the UK in obtaining a high quality Ebony bridge & base
    as a direct replacement for the standard ABR-1.
    May I seek your advice/help in finding one? I should really
    like to obtain one of similar quality to one fitted to my Guild
    Benedetto Masterbuilt Stuart ( one of only 52 made) As you
    would know it is a highly polished very good quality Ebony
    bridge and base. I shall be grateful for a reply, by PM if you
    prefer.

    kind regards.

  22. #21
    Patrick, X2 on Silverfoxx's request. I would love to learn where you obtained your ebony bridges.

  23. #22

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    I personally prefer the Vintage Sunburst versions of the L5, like Patrick2's and floating pickup's.

    One of the most beautiful styles of all guitars, IMHO.

  24. #23

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    I've already given this info to kid335 through a PM. I get all of my bridge assemblies from William (Bill) Gagnon. He used to sell the bridge assys and pick guards exclusively through UltimaGuitar. It seems is no longer in business. I know that Antonio at UltimaGuitar was quite ill. I truely hope he hasn't psaaed on the the big guitar shop in heaven. He is (or was) a very nice guy. But, in his absence, I now go directly to Bill Gagnon.

    Bill will have you either send him exact measurements of the spacings. or, send him your existing saddle with the slots alread cut into the individual saddles, which he'll use as a template. Or, he'll make you a beautiful saddle and leave it blank so your own guitar tech can slot it for you. I spec only African Blackwood. It's actually much harder (denser) than ebony.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverfoxx
    ... I confess i had no success here in the UK in obtaining a high quality Ebony bridge & base as a direct replacement for the standard ABR-1. ... I should really like to obtain one of similar quality to one fitted to my Guild Benedetto Masterbuilt Stuart ( one of only 52 made) As you would know it is a highly polished very good quality Ebony bridge and base. ...
    Guild used to get its wooden bridges from Teller. I'm sure they'd be happy to provide highly polished very good quality Ebony bridges and bases to anyone who asks. Their #107 bridge is probably the most suitable model.

    http://www.teller.de/media/teller_da...ar_bridges.pdf

  26. #25

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    That's very interesting to know that Guild sourced their bridges from Teller. During its Pre Fender history, Guild sourced many parts for their electric and archtop guitars from Europe including the signature harp tailpieces, adjustable metal bridges, and tuners. The saddle from #107 looks identical to the saddles on several of my Guilds but none have a two footed base. Guild are not known for neck elevation and angle to support such a tall base and mine from the 60s and 90s are all flat (full contact to body) bases such as shown in #240. Would you happen to know what years that Teller supplied Guild with bridges?