Pickup Replacement for Gibson L-5 CES

[bananafist]

The new Dearmonds have v good reviews. I'm wondering about a Surdo floater, they are very thin and claim to give a very acoustic sound. See his page on facebook and also in the forum archives. Anybody tried one?

[oldane]

A thing to consider:

Some of those old Gibsons have the fretboard laying flat on the top (no neck extention to lift it), which means there is very little room for a floating PU between the strings and the top. I don't know if that applies to your L5 (it does to my '34 L37) but check the clearance between strings and top before ordering a PU. If there's too little room for the usual factory options, Pete Biltoft may be able to custom make something that will fit. Whatever you do, by all means mount everything on a replacement pickguard so the guitar can be easily be returned to original state and make sure to use felt lining on the underside of the PU so the top won't be scratched. If a D'Armond will fit, use the long "monkey on a stick" fixation version (fixation rod and control box clamped to the strings between bridge and tailpiece). If the D'Angelico / Guild way of fixing a D'Armond (as shown in Neatomics picture above) was to be used, two small holes would have to be drilled in the bass side of the fingerboard for the fixing rod and in my book that's a no go with such an old guitar.

Myself, I wouldn't put a PU on a '34 L5, I would keep it purely acoustical. I have other guitars for amplified playing. One reason is the very vintage, almost museum like status of a '34 L5 which IMHO calls for keeping it original. Another reason is that I set up my acoustic guitars different from my amplified ones. The acoustic guitars have Monel roundwounds and a by modern standards quite high action, while my amplified ones have flatwounds and a lower action.

But that's just me.

[neatomic]

Bill Lawrence was the scientist/genius of pickups...and with a long and important history...that pickup is probably not too far off from the popular jazz pickup by zollar (which lawrence also had a hand in designing)

[citizenk74]

I had one of those Lawrence pickups that was a soundhole clip-in. Very thin in cross-section, and sounded great - excellent balance across all strings, even bronze wound.

[icr]

I found this picture on Google Images. Context indicates a 1948 L5 with McCarty fingerrest pick-up

[Greentone]

All of the recommendations above are super appropriate. My preference is for the DeArmond.

[Marty Grass]

I had a McCarty on an even older L-5. I got it that way from a guy who was an accomplished jazz player and drunk.

What I liked about the McCarty was its very clear, almost shrill, sound. It seemed hot to me. Rolling back the tone knob made all the difference.

What I didn't like was the hum, the inability to adjust the pole heights, and the relative instability of the mount.

All in all, it's a good pickup.

[Marty Grass]

All of the recommendations above are super appropriate. My preference is for the DeArmond.

I have to agree. I really like the new Dearmond 1100. It's stable with adjustable pole pieces and it sounds as good as the originals IMO.

[wintermoon]

"Some of those old Gibsons have the fretboard laying flat on the top (no neck extention to lift it), which means there is very little room for a floating PU between the strings and the top. I don't know if that applies to your L5 (it does to my '34 L37) but check the clearance between strings and top before ordering a PU."

aside from 1939, L-5's and Super 400's have elevated fingerboards.
a friend had a '39 L-5P and a Dearmond wouldn't fit as that year the fingerboards were flush w/th top.
he wound up moving it closer to the bridge so it would fit, but that yields a thinner sound.
you should be able to fit it on a '34 but I'm w/oldane, I'd keep that one acoustic and amplify something else.

[Longways to Go]

bil lawrence was the scientist/genius of pickups...and with a long and important history...that pickup is probably not too far off from the popular jazz pickup by zollar (which lawrence also had a hand in designing)

looks good with that guitar in any event


cheers

I must admit that this pickup is pushing the limit of clearance for string action. It is actually a bit above the fret board (you may notice the wear marks on the bottom of the pickup). So I can't say it is an optimal solution, but the action works well enough for me. Also, the bridge on my guitar has been trimmed both for intonation & action. Once again, before my ownership.

However, this 82 year old Queen really does deliver a great sound. And I am lucky, in that I was not the one that did any of the historically inappropriate surgery! My '34 has big frets, this old school crazy pickup, replacement tuners, and a wonderful tone

[rio]

I have googled around and can't find any info - I am wondering if the bridge pickup is the same as the neck pickup in my '70 L5. I know in a lot of guitars they use a different kind of pickup for the neck and bridge, maybe wanting higher gain for the bridge pickup or something. I am considering, if they are the same, using the bridge pickup as a neck pickup in my Ibanez 2630. That guitar doesn't have stock pickups and whoever replaced them put something in that is ok but a bit too hot for me. I would like to experiment but I can save myself having to buy pickups if I just put the L5 pickup in since I lobe the sound of the neck pickup in that and I think that, if it is the same, it would suit the Ibanez well. I know that there is the issue of devaluing the L5 possibly but I never plan on selling it and although I do use bridge pickups in other guitars, I literally never use it in the L5 so honestly I could just leave it as an empty cavity and be fine with that. Thanks for any info.

Edit: I should add some info. What is in it now is what I believe is a Seymour Duncan '59 - it just has a "59N" sticker on it. I don't know anything about these pickups other than my experience with this guitar. It doesn't have a cover on it so I am sure that is making it harsher than I would like so maybe the pickup is ok and that is the issue, I don't know, but it has a higher output than my other guitars and just isn't quite what I would like in terms of tone. I imagine that the L5 pickup is two conductor so I would lose the coil tap and possibly the out of phase switch (I don't know how that works). Not sure if it is worth it but still curious about the original question.

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[citizenk74]

Here's my take on this, for what it's worth. If you like the sound of your L-5 as it is don't change it. Removing the bridge and leaving an opening will alter the tone of your instrument. Many knowledgeable people believe that the mass of the neck unit dampens the top sufficiently to help produce the distinctive L-5 tone. In addition, leaving the hole open will alter the resonant frequency of the body, also affecting the tone. It's your guitar, of course, so do as you will. Just my (not particularly well qualified) opinion.

[rio]

I was thinking that too - I do think that having a second pickup in it changes the sound. I was going to just put in a dump pickup or something eventually. Not sure if I am going through with it anyway but I am still curious if there are any real differences between the neck and bridge pickups or if they just used the same ones for both positions.

[Danny W.]

There might have been exceptions, but general they are the same pickup. Over the years owners may have swapped or replaced them, so it you're not the original owner, the odds of having different pickups increases.

Danny W.

[GNAPPI]

Gibson uses or had used on most (if not all) of their best known production (maybe not signature) Jazz gits (and other greats like the 335) the 57 classic in identical pairs. There never was that I know of a Gibson branded 57N and 57B. They all have the same pole spacing and windings. Nowadays they have pup splitting with the 57 Classic plus so they are paired with the 57 classic and are not the same.

AFAIK Duncan puts their name in stark contrast white on black near the treble side on the plastic (uncovered models) of all their pups, the Antiquity and Pearly gates I think come with covers, dunno if the Seymour Duncan lettering is under the cover. So I doubt what you have is an SD model, but I don't like SD pups much so I only know what I've owned.

Seeing a 57,58,or 59 on most pups is IMO getting more meaningless every year because just about everyone that makes a pickup puts one of those somewhere on their pickup, box or literature. :-)

Anyway, of all the guitars Gibson makes, I didn't think anyone would change an L5 CES pup, but there's always a first time, and it looks like you found it, go figure :-)

[rio]

I would never change the neck pickup - I like it so much that is why I want it on another guitar too

I found some info and apparently it is an older Seymour Duncan SH-1 '59. They are usually braided and but this one is a 4 conductor and they used the stickers instead of the name being on the pickup they just used stickers underneath before the late nineties or around there. It is not a bad pickup at all but I just want something different. I am not quite ready to take off the L-5 pickup though since the neck pickup is wired to be the one settable to bring out of phase and I like the coil tap too. If it was just a jazz guitar I wouldn't have any qualms about it but it is my versatile do anything guitar so I think I need to fight the urge and if I do change it find one with four conductors so I can still tap it and put it out of phase - it has been useful in the past for musicals and times where I need a quick single coil sound.


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[lawson-stone]

You can at least test the resistance of each pickup with a meter and verify that they are about the same on that metric.

[rio]

That is all excellent info - thank you for taking the time to write that. Your check for 4 cents is on the way.



This is what I found under the neck pickup. I didn't want to take out the bridge pickup because there is a crack extending from a coupe of the screws and I need to leave it as is until I get it repaired. Given the wear on the gold of both pickups though I am fairly certain that they are both the same. It was also an excuse to reverse the neck pickup so that the pole pieces are towards the bridge, which is a great sound and I will make a thread just about that.

I am not too concerned about resale but after sleeping on it I am going to leave the guitar as is. It seems like a waste since I never use the bridge pickup but given that both do have the same wear I think that aesthetically I should leave it on the guitar so that all of the hardware has the same ages look (which isn't everyone's bag but I like that a lot).


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[Brian B]

What you've got there is the earlier (approx. 1961-65) PAT pickup. Non original cover (or was removed/replaced, as that is definitely not Gibson's solder work). Quite a desirable piece. Worth a bit more than the T Tops I referenced. That's basically a late era PAF, with the difference being the sticker Gibson used on the baseplate.

Nice score indeed.

B.

[rio]

Whoa, what a strange turn of events - awesome! Thanks again for the info!


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[Brian B]

You're welcome.

Being a full hollow, you could get a likely get a good look under the bridge pickup without removing it with an inspection mirror and a flashlight through the F hole.

B.

[rio]

What is it about the solder work that gives it away as not being Gibson's by the way?


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[Brian B]

What you've got there looks for all the world to be an original PAT (PAT No) pickup. Interestingly, it predates your L5 by several years. Perhaps the original neck pickup failed, and this was installed as a replacement, or someone upgraded long ago... I don't know how long you've owned the guitar.

I cannot recall in my travels (although I certainly haven't seen everything) having seen reproduction PAT No pickups. There are certainly reproduction PAF's out there, the difference being the sticker on the baseplate which reads "Patent Applied For" on the PAF, and Patent No. on the PAT.

Let's put it this way...if you were going to reproduce some vintage baseball memorabilia, would your make repro Dom DiMaggio things, or things of his older and much more famous brother Joe?

Looking at your picture you can see there's a difference in location where the solder once was (the brown mark on the right side of the pic) and where it now is. It's also greyish and flat, and not a shiny silver like the original solder would have been. Reference the pic I linked in my first post to see what I would look like. Shiny and smooth.

Maybe the fellow at Gibson rushed this one and it's original...but I'd wager a dollar or three it's not.

B.

[icr]

Gosh, your combined tailpiece-bridge looks like a humbucker pickup

Seriously, though I think the patent sticker pickups were in use in 1970.

[R Neil]

Gosh, your combined tailpiece-bridge looks like a humbucker pickup

Seriously, though I think the patent sticker pickups were in use in 1970.

Here's my PAT sticker pickup ....


And here it is without the cover.


Definitely a T-top, resistance 7.8k. And beautiful warm rich tone on a Lyle lam body of L5 size/shape with a 24.75 scale ESPN 175 style neck.

Stumbling fingers still need love ...