The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Hey folks,

    I start this thread because I want to find out whether Ibanez has upgraded their stock pickup in the production line of the Artcore Expressionist. Back to 2014, someone introduced the SS300 to this forum and doubted that pickup was MIJ Super 58 in its description.

    In January, I just realized that Ibanez US website has already changed the specs for Artcore Expressionist to Super 58


    Direct quote from Ibanez.co.jp

    “The Expressionist difference? Jazz fans will recognize the Ibanez original Super 58pickups-the preferred pickup of George Benson, Pat Metheny and John Scofield on their own Signature models. A jazz favorite, yes, but as funk guitarist Eric Krasno has been proving, the Super 58s perform well in a variety of situations. Warm, balanced articulation, and excellent response characterize the Super 58 pickups.”


    I keep digging the answer from google and forums. People tell me there is an obvious appearance difference on pickup cover for those pickups. Orginal Super 58(MIJ) has the polish pickup cover without any engraving words while the Super 58 Custom has the engraving on its cover.

    I have also asked two American dealers, both sweetwater and guitar centre have confirmed the 2015 AFJ95RW fitted with Super 58, not the custom one. I tried to contact Ibanez directly, but they never send me any response in this regard.

    I am not a picky person. In fact, I don’t care where they manufacture the pickups. However, I understand that Orginal Super 58 has Alnico 3, but the custom one has Alnico V. This makes the difference.

    I hope I can find out the answer soon so I need help from your guys. Thanks in advance.


    The Myth of Super 58 Pickup-58-custom-pickup-jpg

    The Myth of Super 58 Pickup-ibanez-af95-jpg

    The Myth of Super 58 Pickup-ibanez-af95-detail-jpg

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  3. #2

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    Wouldn't it just be easier to contact one of the many custom pickup makers tell them what you want and they can't make it. Most have originals to copy, the magnets and can age the magnets. You said you aren't picky well get a clone that will probably be closer to the original.

  4. #3

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    The truth is that Ibanez don't want you to know the answer. They have finally realized that advertising their more competitively priced ranges (e.g. Expressionist) with a different pickup to their high end guitars makes the customer think that he/she is buying a product with an inferior pickup. They then conclude that they may be losing sales due to this. Their answer is simple, call all their pickups by the same name : Super 58. Then the Expressionist customer believes he or she is getting a guitar with a high end pickup. This doesn't mean that the Super 58 in the Expressionist range was made in the same factory or with the same attention to detail as a Super 58 that is in a MIJ guitar of twice the price; they could be quite different, even though they now have the same name. Such a strategy suggests that the Artcores and Expressionists are responsible for far more total revenue than their premium MIJ range and they see more growth in the lower priced end than at the top.

    These are purely my own opinions, with no inside knowledge, but changing the pickup name it is certainly what I would have recommended if I were in Ibanez marketing department with responsibility for shifting more Artcores ! How many times on this forum have members recommended buying an Artcore, but with the proviso "be prepared to swap the pickups for better tone". Although it has to be said that was mainly for guitars with the ACH series pickups - now renamed Classic Elite or Infinity.

    Ibanez have always had several versions of the "same" pickup. If you look on the official Ibanez parts website, you will find that there are many different pickups, with different part numbers, that were called either Super 58 or Super 58 Custom in the specs of their host guitars.

    Didn't the original Krasno signature AS come with Seymour Duncans ? Interesting that they have now moved them back to Super 58s - whatever they are !
    Last edited by newsense; 03-26-2015 at 04:01 AM. Reason: Gender balance

  5. #4

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    Thanks Newsense

    You only get what you pay for in this world, to think you're buying a $700-$800.00 guitar with a set of $300.00 pickups is naive. Really. Check out the Ibanez website for your country, look for the SUPPORT tab on the top of the page, from that drop down menu select PARTS, from there navigate a bit more and you can scope out parts prices. You'll see the original Alnico II Super 58s are about $150.00 a piece. Whereas the Super 58 Customs in the Expressionist are far cheaper, less than $75.00 each. And those are Alnico V pickup. Heck loo for used Super 58's on eBay, you'll find many but when you ask the seller what guitar they came out of you'll find they are the lesser Alnico V Super 58s (Custom remains unspoken or at best sotto voice).

    Having owned 4 of the upper quality AS103s (burl and spalted maple versions) that came stock with the Super 58 Custom (Alnico V) pickup I know from owning them that they are decent pickups. BUT my last AS103 in burl maple had been upgraded with Gibson Classic 57s and CTS pots, caps and output jack. The improvement was fantastic. There are three pickups that I'm quite fond of, the Super 58, the Duncan Seth Lover and the Gibson Classic 57. To my ears they all have that PAF tone nailed. The Super 58 Customs don't come close. Ibanez probably won't reply to you because they want people to think they're getting something that they're not. Or put more kindly: Lost In Translation.

    Check out this ad for an AFJ95, pretty much a dead wringer for what you are asking about. Look down at the detailed specs, it says Super 58 custom, but they stray vaguely from the truth by saying these are the same used in the Benson model (really it's the lower end LGB30), Scoville (JS10) and so on. Get it ?? Of course not but it makes for a nice "what if" debate about is Ibanez REALLY putting a $300.00 set of pickups in a $600.00 street price jazz box.

    Ibanez site, navigate around and you can find parts you want to research

    Ibanez.com | Parts
    Last edited by BigMikeinNJ; 03-26-2015 at 06:42 AM.

  6. #5
    Thank you BigMikeinNJ,

    Your information is helpful. Just wonder, is it possible for them to manufacture the Alnico II pickup in a cheaper way?

  7. #6

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    Does it sound good?

  8. #7

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    When in doubt, I just switch out with Seymour Duncan. I know what I'm getting and 95% of all my guitars have Duncan's in them.....even my Ibanez AM93. The difference between the SD and Super 58 Customs was noticeable.

  9. #8

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    When the S58s have S58-N and S58-B engraved in the bottom right-hand corner, they have Ceramic magnets. I have them in my SV500VLS and I'm not complaining. Sounds warm and clean and nice.

  10. #9

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    Actually they don't have ceramics I have Super 58 Customs with alnico magnets, Ibanez switched to alnico in the customs some time ago.

  11. #10

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    I'm sure there are more knowledgeable contributors here, but the cheaper ones in the 30-60 range (chrome or gold) are either Chinese (the slightly cheaper versions of the chrome or gold ones, respectively) or Korean (the slightly more expensive ones of each).

    Those in the 80-100 range are Japanese, the slightly cheaper of these (88 euros) are apparently those which all of us here consider desirable (apparently used in the AS200, JSM100, GB200, LGB300, etc). The 90+ ones seem to be a special design for the AR300RE-CS, which is (was?) a Japanese-made model also.

    The expensive Japanese ones used on the upmarket (Japanese) PM models have been described here previously as high output.

  12. #11

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    It's really simple, just do an Advanced Search on Completed Listings for Ibanez Super 58 pickup, you will see the prices singles and sets sell for.

    And as HCarlH said it is hard to go wrong with a Duncan, the Seth Lover, the 59 are fantastic pickups, as are the Gibson Classic 57s (beware not to get a set taken out of an Epiphone, I believe you start treading in the same vague muddy water as the Super 58 Custom are in). The Duncan, Gibson and Ibanez high end pickups really nail that old Grail PAF tone. It's worth upgrading your guitar once you have the money. I've done it many times and it's just the smart thing to do.

    Good luck in your hunt for the perfect tone.

  13. #12

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    Always enjoy a 58s discussion :-) the marketing strategy theory and Mike's take on this make perfect sense, although I have to say the pickups on my 2014 Expressionist sound fine to me. Sweetwater did a thorough video review of the Am and As93 a while ago, on a Rivera amp, for anyone interested to hear how they sound stock.

    Maybe the 93s have the MIK version of the 58s because the pots are inscribed made in Korea on mine.
    Last edited by m_d; 03-27-2015 at 03:50 PM.

  14. #13

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    "They then conclude that they may be losing sales due to this."

    I don't think Ibanez worries about this in the least.

    Much if not all of their whole AF line experienced major downgrades in features with the removal of wood tail pieces and wood knobs, laminated burst pickguards, supplying both wood and TOM bridges, and less less abalone inlay in the FB.

    Ibanez sycophants say they'd rather have S58's as their stock upgrade, I'd rather have both.

    As it is the new downgraded models don't seem to be flying off the shelves and I acquired a couple of the beautifully appointed models before they were gone... I can always change pups.

  15. #14

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    ?Some of the older more attractively appointed Ibanez are really fantastic. I've owned four of the AS103s in the rare burl or spalted maple finish with the flame maple binding and wood knobs, wood pick guard, wood truss rod cover and really stout cases. Those are truly amazing guitars and really seem to hold right near their original selling price of $800.00. I'm not talking about the blond or burst models, but this limited batch of 103s with the special appointments and yeah Super 58 Customs...

    Good move Gnappi !!

  16. #15

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    Just for clarification (also in reply to m_d), I have three guitars with 58 Customs (AF105, AK105, PM35) and haven't swapped any of these out. Ironically, I bought the PM35 used with the specific intention of doing a swap.

    But then I keep coming back to the conclusion that the 58 Customs really have nothing going against them.

    I also have two guitars with Duncan 59s, and I'm in love with that pickup.

    Perhaps I will be changing the pickup in the PM35 after all (don't know yet), and one of my considerations in this would be brand continuity, since I may want to sell any of these three guitars spontaneously at any time without the hassle of reinstalling the original pickup(s). That's because whenever I see an Ibanez or similar fitted with Duncan or Gibson or DiMarzio on Ebay, my crocodile brain tells me that the seller didn't like the guitar in the first place and wants to get rid of it now because he/she still doesn't like it after the swap. An AF105 advertised as being fitted with "true" Super 58 pickups, by contrast, would get my crocodile brain's nod as a "true" upgrade.

  17. #16

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    I took my son to GC yesterday and, while waiting around heard some wonderful jazz tones. Around the corner a kid was playing one of those blue expressionists pictured above. Fender tube amp of some type.

    Well whatever pickup it has, the instrument sounds really f'n nice! I'm not crazy about the looks but the tone, the tone!

  18. #17
    BigMikeinNJ,

    Interestingly, Ibanez is going to put a Super 58 with part number 3PUS58N4 (since 2014/3) which is different from both Chinese made Super 58 custom (3PU1H58NG) and Japanese made Super 58s (3PU1J158G1)

    For Super 58s, with part number 3PU1J158G1, I would decode it as J for japan and G for gold color. But it is hard for me to understand what the other ones mean from 3PUS58N4 and 3PU1H58NG.

    N for nickel??? Not sure what do H and S stand for???

  19. #18
    Bill@Ibanez, cames back with the following clarification.

    I got confirmation on some pickups for you!

    Super 58 Custom made in CHINA Alnico 3
    3PU1H58BG
    3PU1H58NG

    Super 58 made in KOREA Alnico 5
    3PU1C158G1
    3PU1C158G2

    Super 58 made in JAPAN Alnico 5
    3PU1J158G1
    3PU1J158G2

    Super 58 Silent made in JAPAN Alnico 5
    3PU1J15811
    3PU1J15812

    ACH1/2 made in CHINA Ceramic
    3PU1HAC1G
    3PU1HAC2G

    I did not update the pricing as prices are subject to change. There were some on your list that were incorrect, but when it comes down to it, the end price you get from a dealer would be more important anyway.

    All of the pickups above are currently available in the US. Outside of the US, I'm not quite sure...

    There are some pickups(including a couple on this list) in the Ibanez online store. But again, this is only for the US market.

    I'm not sure what kind of logistics need to go into worldwide shipping, but we unfortunately do not have the ability to do it currently. All Ibanez guitars and parts need to be ordered through one of the various the distribution centers around the world. They are the people/companies that specifically sell, and well, distribute Ibanez products. So at this time, if you are looking for availability for specific parts, they would be the ones to ask. Although this is a good suggestion.

    Hope this helps at least a little,
    -Bill

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Falling_leaves
    Super 58 Custom made in CHINA Alnico 3
    ...
    Super 58 made in JAPAN Alnico 5
    ...
    The confusion continues.

    The guy from Ibanez you're quoting is essentially saying that the current Japanese version of the Super 58 is no longer the traditional Super 58 (using Alnico 5 rather than 3).

    Traditionally, the Super 58 has been Alnico 3:

    The Myth of Super 58 Pickup-screenclip-png

    This is from 1982, also showing the traditional three-screw configuration for left/right tilting. I wonder precisely when they abandoned this.





  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by palindrome
    The confusion continues.

    The guy from Ibanez you're quoting is essentially saying that the current Japanese version of the Super 58 is no longer the traditional Super 58 (using Alnico 5 rather than 3).

    Traditionally, the Super 58 has been Alnico 3:

    The Myth of Super 58 Pickup-screenclip-png

    This is from 1982, also showing the traditional three-screw configuration for left/right tilting. I wonder precisely when they abandoned this.




    So the closest thing to the original Super 58s are the Chinese ones that people who haven't heard them typically are assuming are inferior? Hilarious!

    You DON'T get what you pay for. That myth was exposed in the 19th Century. You pay what the manufacturer sets as the price. And that has absolutely nothing to do with quality and never has. I'll continue to let naysayers play my AM93 and be amazed to learn the whole thing was made in the same nation that makes iPads and iPhones and countless other high-end products. And for those of you stuck with those inferior Alnico 5 Japanese Super 58s on your $1500+ artist models: Good luck finding the superior Alnico 3 Chinese replacements on Ibanez's store.
    LOL!

  22. #21

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    Seanmo,

    You guys thinking the Super 58 Customs are great, they are Alnico 5.

    Most cats want that traditional Gibson PAF tone, you want that tone you need the Super 58s, Duncan Seth Lovers or some Gibson Classic 57s. The old school Super 58 (in the upper tier George Benson LGB300, the PM100, the AS200 are all Alnico 3.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Falling_leaves
    Bill@Ibanez, cames back with the following clarification.

    I got confirmation on some pickups for you!

    Super 58 Custom made in CHINA Alnico 3
    3PU1H58BG
    3PU1H58NG

    ...
    I got the SJ500VLS from Ishibashi Gakki in 2012. Looks like it has got these pups under the bonnet. They are marked S58-N/S58-B. I thought to myself that they sounded remarkably warm and nice like a good humbucker should for Ceramics. I was just going by what I read on the Ibanez Forum. Are they really AlNiCo 3s now? I really don't care what magnets are in them as the proof of the pudding is in the eating, after all.

    I'm not so sure about the ones in the AF105NT though...
    Last edited by Jabberwocky; 01-09-2016 at 11:39 PM.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by newsense
    The truth is that Ibanez don't want you to know the answer. They have finally realized that advertising their more competitively priced ranges (e.g. Expressionist) with a different pickup to their high end guitars makes the customer think that he/she is buying a product with an inferior pickup. They then conclude that they may be losing sales due to this. Their answer is simple, call all their pickups by the same name : Super 58. Then the Expressionist customer believes he or she is getting a guitar with a high end pickup. This doesn't mean that the Super 58 in the Expressionist range was made in the same factory or with the same attention to detail as a Super 58 that is in a MIJ guitar of twice the price; they could be quite different, even though they now have the same name. Such a strategy suggests that the Artcores and Expressionists are responsible for far more total revenue than their premium MIJ range and they see more growth in the lower priced end than at the top.
    Interesting point. After all, one can get 95% as good a guitar at 25% of the price comparing the Artcore and Expressionist guitars with the signature models. If I was looking to buy new, that's what I'd be looking at.

    Fender has the same issue between the MIM and USA instruments. I can't tell that the USA guitars are much if any better than the MIM ones. Heck, I've got a Squier Affinity Tele and it's easily good enough to gig with. There's something nice about gigging with an instrument that you just don't have to worry about.

  25. #24

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    I personally like alnico II, but old PAFs did come in alnico II in many instances. I just don't understand how can Ibanez pickups be worth 150.00 a pop. I'd much rather a set of lollars or something like that for that price. I like my mojotone alnico III as well, but I still prefer II. My favorite is the SD Seth Lover!

  26. #25

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    Really agree with you abelljo, unless you have an older Ibanez that had it's Super 58s taken out and are dying to put it back to stock you CAN get such great tone, totally on a par with the old Super 58 with a Seth Lover or Lollar or DiMarzio 36th Anniversary or Gibson Classic 57. A lot of guys that want a decent semi or fully hollow Ibanez can get one and later swap in Seth Lovers and new wiring/pots. The difference in makes in comparison to those ACH or Super 58 CUSTOMS is jaw dropping. So maybe with labor you're looking at a total of $300.00... It's a no brainer.

    I got a Seth Lover for a Yunzhi built AR680 in natural finish. $105.00 shipped on eBay. Some day that puppy is going into the shop to have the shoulders of the neck thinned down a taste, install the Seth Lover and put in a new pick guard with Schatten hidden controls...


    The Myth of Super 58 Pickup-11082205_10152872726492239_2149348722828173372_o-jpg