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This is the Vintage 47 take on the Gibson EH-185. This is also the prototype. It sounds awesome! I think my amp search is finally over.
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03-22-2015 10:34 PM
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Very cool! If anyone can get the EH185 just so... it is V47! Great prices too.
I am working up an old Gibson GA20T Ranger (Tweed). I just MAY... have to look into one of these... because... I don't have a real reason.
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Very cool. I thought about taking the plunge on that amp a few months ago but decided to go a different route in my gear. Congrats. And I have the same problem with pictures in this site.
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I emailed David Barnes about this amp about a month ago, looking for prices and specs, and never got a reply.....
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How many watts?
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This is prototype #2. #1 which was the subject of a thread about a month ago didn't turn out as David wanted, so thus this one. He's happy with the way this turned out and I see why. After I play a few more hours on it to give the speaker some time to settle in, I'll post a video or two on it.
Originally Posted by ruger9
I think the wattage is 15, but not sure, might be around 20. I'll see if there is anything in the documentation when I get home.Last edited by Petimar; 03-23-2015 at 09:48 PM.
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Did David say if this was a one-off, a custom order, or if he is planning on adding them to "the line"? Because there are quite a few people who would pre-order one right now..... especially considering David's more-than-reasonable prices....
BTW- what's the speaker?
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The speaker is the hemp cone one he states on his web site. David said to expect about 60 hours to really play it in, but it sounds good to me as is new.
I think he is considering doing a run of these, but of course I don't claim to speak for him.
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I am really liking this amp! I have about 10 hours on it so far, David says between 40 and 60 hours is best for speaker break in. I think it has a really good 40s type sound now, not exactly like the recordings I've heard of EH 150s or EH 185s but pretty darn close. It has a slight growl when I dig hard and is really smooth when I don't. It is full and rich on all notes but not so dull and bassy to make things a muddy mess.
I will be posting a video soon.
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I sent David an email a couple of weeks ago, just mentioning how much I enjoyed the "Ric"-style amp that I played in the clips you might have seen in the "Octal-Tube" thread, sent him the clip, and mentioned the three friends of mine who've bought a "Ric"-style on my recommendation. I let me him that whenever he gets around to it, I'd love to get on the list for a 185-style.
I hadn't thought much about it until he left me a phone message saying how much he enjoyed the clips, and appreciated my comments. He said he was just super backordered, and he would be able to think about it when he clears the back order. He asked me to call him back, and I just spaced until commenting here, so I owe him a call back.
I talked to him once before on the phone, maybe three years ago, about the 185-style circuit, and he was super nice, though at the time he was focused solely on the Valco circuits. I'm gonna give him a call Monday afternoon to say hello.
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Here is a brief video of the amp. Keep in mind I'm playing a 5 string electric mandolin not a guitar.
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This amp just gets better as it breaks in. Been experimenting with older tubes, but even the new JJs sound really good. New video soon.
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I don't have time for a long post, but I will definitely be putting up a blogpost, and probably doing some more extended A/B testing. But, just this mother out:
It's pretty f-ing great, right? (The Vintage '47 amp, I mean)
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By the way, since I made that video, I had four occasions to actually use the amp on a gig. I have to say, especially given all of the other sounds on stage, it really obscures the subtle differences between the new VA-185G and the original EH-185. Given that I usually have to mic my amp anyway, the VA-185G is able to give me that same fat, Charlie Christian tone with a pinch of breakup that I'm going for.
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After corresponding with Jonathan and David, I was confident that it would sound good and nail the 185 vibe. What I did not expect was to find "that sound" in a 20.5 lbs amp! (I hadn't asked David about the weight.) My quest for the perfect amp is over (and the one for the perfect guitar too, BTW
). Now, the rest of the journey is only about becoming a better player!
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david barnes of vintage 47 has long been making great (valco styled octal) amps...and the 185 was on this agenda for a long time..but i was under the impression he was retiring and trying to get out from the business ie biz for sale offers, etc...so i'd assume these will be fairly hard to come by
btw nice tenor guitar!! oh tiny grimes
cheers
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love the sounds but can you get them to break up more if you turn it up?
not blues break-up but Junior Barnard/late Django break-up?
maybe the breakup we hear on the recordings is a combo of the amp and the recording techniques?
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Gotta love V47 amps! Heres one I used to own, loved it but let it go! Bob
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David said the VA-185G will be available for orders starting in January. He's got a new partner who's starting to take over production, so hopefully David can eventually transition into just the design role.
They've been producing amps to fill their backlog all long, and basically only taking new orders from people that were begging for an amp via email. Since they've brought on the new guy production has been ramping up big time.
I'm really excited for them!
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Oh boy, I am so excited. David is finishing up 3 over the Christmas weekend. The speakers just came in. I snagged one...and David is doing mine with GREEN/Black Racing Stripes.
Two more VA-185Gs left. They are $990 each plus $58 CONUSA shipping. After these are sold, you get in line for the next batch.
By the way, David only builds them for US voltage. So, 230VAC-240VAC landlubbers require a step-down transformer.Last edited by Jabberwocky; 12-23-2015 at 06:36 AM.
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I posted this on the CC-pickup appreciation thread, but it's very relevant to this amp and amps like it:
This was in response to a clip of Rene Thomas, whose tone, to me, is quite bright and clear, and definitely not that fat Charlie Christian tone.
After speaking with David, he mentioned that something like an EH-150/EH-185 was designed primarily for use with steel guitars, which are very bright sounding. Rounding off the ice-picky highs was part of the intention behind those amps. I've often felt that the frequency response of such amps "falls off" at somepoint lower than a tweed-era amp, which is lower than a blackface, which is lower than a silverface, etc. Each successive generation of amps seemed to succeed at getting better "fidelity" than the generation before. Amps started out being mated to steel guitars, but each generation after, the designer was trying to move that toward being something like a neutral amp with full frequency response, more like today's powered PA speakers than the super colored warmth and fuzz of a tube guitar amp. But this treble attenuation is more complex than simply turning down the single tone knob or the treble of a fender-style 3 band eq. I think there's some element of a low-pass filter required, not just EQ.I've come to realize the clarity and twang inherent in a CC pickup are the perfect complement for those first-generation amplifiers, who were primarily designed for steel guitar, and attenuating the treble was a big inherent feature of their tone. Unfortunately replicating that treble attenuation is far more complicated than simply turning down the treble knob on a backline '65 DRRI, or something.
The VA-185G nails the tone attenuating vibe of an EH-185, but it's worth noting David has three distinctive inputs on the amp, two "instrument" and one "mic". To the right is the "mic" channel, which is hotter in keeping with the original. The middle "instrument" channel is less hot, also in keeping with original. But the leftmost input, also an "instrument" channel, is similar to a "bright" input. For that input, he bypassed the caps or resistors or whatever that provide the first bit of treble shaving, so you get a bit more treble more like a tweed amp, though still not all the way there.
I've primarily been using the regular, middle "instrument" channel, because I'm trying to keep the breakup managed.
I actually shipped my VA-185G to North Carolina for the event we're playing 12/27-12/31, and I think that I'm going to make the promoter buy one for next year (the promoter is also a bandleader of similar style of music, and he could use it during the year). But, I'm still interested in Tavo's (i.e. the Nocturne Brain)'s "Junior Barnyard" pedal for when I travel and have to use a backline amp, since I'm betting it probably accomplishes some of that treble attenuation with a combination of a regular filter and some kind of low-pass filter. Funny thing is that he original designed it for use with amplifying upright bass, and I could see how some kind of low-pass filter would be helpful in keeping the piezo-induced fizzy frequencies away, and concentrating on the fundamental tone.
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Can you run a jumper cable between the two outside inputs, and plug into the middle input? I had one of David's amps that allowed that--it was my favorite way to plug in--might give another tonal option? Not sure if it works on that circuit.
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Yes, the jumper thing works on this one too.
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Just my two bits, but to my ears the old one had the Charlie Christian tone nailed, and the other one didn't. The new one sounds like it would be better for live play, though, where you need a bit more high end. The tone might round out a bit with further break in, or perhaps another speaker.
Ducking ...
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No need to duck. Your ears are your own. And to be fair, it's not an exact copy of the tone for the reasons listed above (speaker/cabinet/circuit etc.), but what I can speak to is how it "feels" to play through, and the way it makes me play.
What I can attest to is that essential character in the CC tone is there and similar enough to the original that it allows me to "channel" Charlie. I can't do that with amps that don't have that character, and I find will myself struggling to play what I want to hear. Plus, I actually had times during that video where I forgot which one I was playing through at the moment. You'll notice I keep looking over my shoulder - that's because I couldn't tell which one I was on.
And don't forget Charlie's tone changed slightly from recording to recording, and at different live performances. The 1941 Minton's and 1939 Minneapolis bootleg sessions are far more saturated than his studio sessions, and the Basie/Goodman combo session ("Ad Lib Blues", "Lester's Dream", "Charlie's Dream", "I Never Knew") is more saturated than any of the other studio sessions, except perhaps the '39 "Honeysuckle Rose" with the whole Orchestra.
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