The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Posts 1 to 22 of 22
  1. #1

    User Info Menu

    Does anybody have an idea what a Cort Joe Beck Alto guitar should cost? I've seen listings from 750 to 990 dollar on ebay. I've always thought they are more in the 300 to 350 dollar area?
    And if they're that expensive are they worth it?

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

    User Info Menu

    I've seen them sold in the $350-400 range. I've played one and own a J. Triggs NAMM model and IMO it's an under appreciated brand, but like all things undervalued it's good for those of us who play and want variety in what they play at a decent price.

    Are they "WORTH" buying for $700 up? not if you ever want to sell it... you'll get $350-$400 for it, IMO that is.

  4. #3

    User Info Menu

    I think there was a regular Cort Joe Beck signature guitar and an alto, which is is very distinctive.

    Here is how Beck described it

    JazzTimes: Your Cort Joe Beck Model alto guitar really confused me. At times it sounded like you were playing a Hammond organ.

    Beck: [Laughter] It’s pretty straight-ahead, really.


    Take your whole guitar and tune it down a fifth to the key of A, and then tune the middle two strings up an octave. What I’ve done is take the normal tuning of the guitar and changed it so that I have bass strings for my thumb; sort of a banjo register for my first two fingers, and then a low melody register for my other two fingers.

    JazzTimes: It’s such a huge, evocative sound, with that big, gong-like low end and that shimmering top end.


    Beck: I’m actually playing through three channels. The reason the guitar is a patented invention is that this pickup is split so that the bass strings have their own output. And the top four melody strings are coming out of another output, which in turn is split stereo by a chorus. The bass strings are .080 and .060. Then a .022 wound and a .016 plain. Then a .026 wound and a .018 plain. So you don’t have to change any of your fingerings; it’s the same intervals as in normal tuning, just in the key of A, so it’s A-D-G-C-E-A. I wanted to be more pianistic, to play clusters sort of like those Bill Evans employs, that you couldn’t possibly play otherwise.


    I would expect the price on the Beck alto to be higher than the regular Beck signature guitar.

  5. #4

    User Info Menu

    Although I have not tried an Alto guitar yet (nor ever come across one), I do have the regular Cort Joe Beck guitar, and I really love it. Nice 'thunk', easy to play and overall, and a great build. (I got it from one of Joe's former students and apparently it was actually one of Joe's personal guitars for a time, so there's a nice history there!) I like to think of it as somewhat like Cort's version of a modified ES-175. I also have a Cort Triggs I model as well as a nicer one of their solidbodies, too (which is a great guitar, too). IMO, the brand is definitely underrated, especially their finer offerings, which I would pretty much put up against just about anything comparable (and even more). By the way, I'm also a fan of their stock Mighty Mite pickups on the JB and Triggs guitars (as in to say: they do not need replacing. IMO).

    Yeah, the Joe Beck Alto is definitely a different animal, and being both unique and relatively rare, I would probably expect to pay over $600 for one, maybe even $800, whereas the regular JB model can be had for less, sometimes even much less if you're patient. (I found mine on Craigslist for, literally, a song.)

    By the way, Joe did a (strictly) duet album back in 2000 with Jimmy Bruno called Polarity (on Concord Records) where he entirely sticks to his Alto guitar throughout the disc of standards and one original each. Good album, IMO, with solid 5-star reviews over at Amazon. Do a search, and you can check out samples of every song to hear the Joe Beck Alto guitar in action. Beck, a renowned session guy, pretty much orchestrated the album (he produced it, too) in order to enable the "orchestral" approach of his uniquely-voiced guitar to shine within the arrangements, while (IIRC) Bruno tends to play most of the heads and solos. Definitely a good album and worth checking out if you're a fan of either guitarist.
    Last edited by ooglybong; 01-28-2015 at 01:27 PM.

  6. #5

    User Info Menu

    Never heard of it before this thread, but one of the guys from Fould's Music shop that filmed this clip is a member here, maybe he could offer some insight.


  7. #6

    User Info Menu

    Recently sold a Joe Beck non-alto model. It was really very well made, with nice appointments and no issues. Went for $260 after a couple of months on CL. Probably could have gotten more on eBay. The alto would be at a premium, albeit for a much smaller buyers' market. But around here, I would say $400 tops. Cool concept though.

  8. #7

    User Info Menu

    Yep, it was a decently made instrument, what I would expect from a Cort made instrument, not top drawer Japanese, Chinese or US made but good nonetheless.

    The tuning if I recall correctly

    1st A
    2nd E
    3rd High C
    4th G
    5th Low D
    6th Low A


    It makes for effortless close harmony and a unique sound. I sell a lot of jazz guitars and I've only had this one pass through my hands which I bought from someone in northern Europe. I probably could have sold it 6 times from the enquiries I received afterwards. I can't remember what I sold for.



  9. #8

    User Info Menu

    I own Joe Beck's Martin alto guitar that I think he used on Polarity the recording mentioned above with Jimmy Bruno. It is strung exactly as he left it with a mixture of guitar and banjo strings. There is some paper work written by either him or the Martin Co. Explaining this. The guitar tunes to standard tuning and sounds when played with usual fingerings like 2 guitars. Very weird and eerie but cool all the same. The guitar has his name engraved on the tailpiece. It is a CF 1 Model altered for him. Before he died he played a concert in NJ at one of the public libraries. Just Bruno and Beck. He had a straight 6 Martin CF1 and the Alto that I now own (purchased from his estate). If anyone is interested I'll send photos of it when I return July 15 th. He encouraged people in the audience to buy one because no one had!
    Joe was diagnosed with lung cancer which he beat for a while. And then it recurred. The concert that I attended was one of his last done with Jimmy's undying affection for Joe

    Polarity in my opinion is Jimmys best album. These 2 guys played like the wind.

  10. #9

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by phazyme
    I own Joe Beck's Martin alto guitar that I think he used on Polarity the recording mentioned above with Jimmy Bruno. and the Alto that I now own (purchased from his estate). If anyone is interested I'll send photos of it when I return July 15 th.
    Phazyme, please post some pictures here or maybe start a new thread with your back story and appreciation for these instruments and Joe Beck.

    I'm sure a lot of us here on the forum would appreciate this.

  11. #10

    User Info Menu

    I will in a week when I return. Oddly enough I was taking a lesson on a Sunday in Jimmy Bruno's living room in Pa. when he got a call from CT from Joe Beck his dear friend. He seemed distressed and I asked him what was up and he told me that Beck had received word from his doctors that his pulmonary situation had recurred. They planned to make another album before Joes passing but it never came to be. When the played together for the last time Joe was playing his standard Martin 6 not the alto although there are photos of it on stage. He laid down a fabulous chomping rhythm to Jimmy who went nuts with the head interspersed with gorgeous ballads. Just the two of them in front of 500 people who were simply mesmerized. Not a soul got up and left they were glued to these two. The only jarring interruption to this euphoria was when Jimmy as only Jimmy can do cracked a joke about a guitar player with Tourette's Syndrome.! Went over poorly. You have to know Jimmy to understand.

  12. #11

    User Info Menu

    It was suggested by the moderator that I post photos of Joe Beck's Alto Guitar. This was his own guitar which he used until his death. He moved from Cort to Martin, which this is, for production. The photos here are of the Joe Beck Alto Martin that has Joe's name inlaid in the tail piece. The body is a modified CF-2. One pickup was removed leaving a Kent Armstrong. The following is a link to many photos of the guitar along with the paperwork describing the gauge strings used, and the tuning which A,D,G,C,E,A. There are 2 output jacks, and two volume controls, along with a 3rd push pull switch. The bottom 2 bass string volume is controlled independently of the 4 top treble strings. The pole pieces on the Kent Armstrong pickup are routed either to output A, or B as described above for independent volume control. The strings used were GHS . The gauges were from bass to treble .080 wd, .060 wd,.022 wd, 016 plain, 026 p wd, 018 plain. You can see all this on the original worksheet from Martin, along with the Martin spec sheet. It's pretty fascinating. I bought this from Joe's Estate. I had seen him play about 6 months before he died along with Jimmy Bruno, to who's house I often went for a lesson. (Jimmy). When I got the guitar it was tuned as Joe had left it. The fingerings are the same as standard tuning, with a very eery sound, almost like 2 guitars at once. If you listen to the Jimmy Bruno album "Polarity", it's just Bruno and Beck, but it sounds like many more people. The fill, the rhythm, the bass, played by Joe is just mind boggling with Joe's alto, while Jimmy plays his usual beautiful leads. I asked Jimmy if he used this Martin on the record, and he said he used the Cort Beck model. Neither one is any longer made, but can be found in the aftermarket. They are a blast to tinker with. Peter If the photos don't attach, you can see them by copying the following link, and paste into your URL box.
    <center>
    <a href="http://s963.photobucket.com/user/plcmd/media/2014-11/joe%20beck/DSC_6319.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i963.photobucket.com/albums/ae116/plcmd/2014-11/joe%20beck/DSC_6319.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo DSC_6319.jpg"/></a>
    Attached Images Attached Images Cort Joe Beck Alto-dsc_6320-jpg Cort Joe Beck Alto-dsc_6319-jpg Cort Joe Beck Alto-dsc_6318-jpg Cort Joe Beck Alto-dsc_6317-jpg Cort Joe Beck Alto-dsc_6316-jpg Cort Joe Beck Alto-dsc_6315-jpg Cort Joe Beck Alto-dsc_6314-jpg Cort Joe Beck Alto-dsc_6313-jpg Cort Joe Beck Alto-dsc_6312-jpg Cort Joe Beck Alto-dsc_6311-jpg Cort Joe Beck Alto-dsc_6310-jpg Cort Joe Beck Alto-dsc_6309-jpg Cort Joe Beck Alto-dsc_6308-jpg Cort Joe Beck Alto-dsc_6307-jpg Cort Joe Beck Alto-dsc_6306-jpg Cort Joe Beck Alto-dsc_6305-jpg Cort Joe Beck Alto-dsc_6304-jpg Cort Joe Beck Alto-dsc_6303-jpg Cort Joe Beck Alto-dsc_6301-jpg Cort Joe Beck Alto-dsc_6302-jpg Cort Joe Beck Alto-dsc_6300-jpg Cort Joe Beck Alto-dsc_6299-jpg Cort Joe Beck Alto-dsc_6298-jpg Cort Joe Beck Alto-dsc_6297-jpg Cort Joe Beck Alto-dsc_6296-jpg Cort Joe Beck Alto-dsc_6295-jpg Cort Joe Beck Alto-dsc_6294-jpg Cort Joe Beck Alto-dsc_6293-jpg Cort Joe Beck Alto-dsc_6292-jpg Cort Joe Beck Alto-dsc_6291-jpg Cort Joe Beck Alto-dsc_6290-jpg Cort Joe Beck Alto-dsc_6289-jpg Cort Joe Beck Alto-dsc_6288-jpg 

  13. #12

    User Info Menu

    Sorry I took so long in posting these photos of Joes' Alto Guitar. I posted some Hi Res photos, diagrams from Martin of the string gauges, and wiring diagram, with separate volume knobs, and clicking knob for circuit changes. The tuning is there as well, which is ADGCEA. Thanks. Peter

  14. #13

    User Info Menu

    One more photo of Joe on his Martin. This is not the Alto in this photo , it's a standard. He had them both on stage with him when I saw him play. You can tell by the pick guard which does not exist on the alto.
    Attached Images Attached Images Cort Joe Beck Alto-joe-beck-photo-jpg 

  15. #14

    User Info Menu

    great pics & info!


    cheers

  16. #15

    User Info Menu

    Does anyone have a lead on either the Cort or the Martin version of the Joe Beck Alto?
    I've been looking for one for ages - so far only came across two for sale in the past decade or so.

  17. #16

    User Info Menu

    I'd love to find one myself! I've recently taken a Cort JR Triggs and strung it exactly to Joe's specs. It sounds fantastic! Surprising how quickly you can adapt to the A to A tuning. Thank you phazyme for posting the info. Hope to use it to accompany vocalists.

  18. #17

    User Info Menu

    chuckmish - did you slot the nut and bridge for the thicker bass strings, or just put them on. Sounds like an experiment I just might want to try as well.

  19. #18

    User Info Menu

    thanks for sharing those photos!






    .

  20. #19

    User Info Menu

    Hi , sorry to revive this !

    I see the scale length is 25" (on the Martin guitar anyway)

    I have a 25.5 " guitar I'm thinking of converting to
    Joe Beck alto tuning ...

    Its a Hofner President with a zero fret so I'll avoid
    the nut slot cutting issues (I hope !)

    Any ideas how to deal with an 80 guage string
    going through the hole in the tuning peg ??

    Do I just drill or file the hole out larger ?
    Likewise the tailpiece ?


    Any other gotchas ? Reasons for not attempting this
    conversion ?

    I believe Metheny has a guitar in this tuning
    (One quiet night )
    Did he get the idea from Joe Beck ?

  21. #20

    User Info Menu

    I love the sounds that Joe got out of the Alto, both with Jimmy Bruno and with Ali Ryerson. I saw him in concert with Ali twice and it was nothing short of remarkable. I tried to simulate the tuning and I found it to be far less intuitive that Joe described. I don't know if that said more about me or about him. I do know that there is a magic to what Joe did with the alto tuning and ti will probably haunt me forever.

  22. #21

    User Info Menu

    If the low string is tune to A, you can probably get by with a smaller gauge that .080. I use a .068 on my 7-string archtop, sounds great. I bought a set of baritone strings and used the 5th and 6th as 6th and 7th. I tend toward a slightly lighter gauge than most jazzers, generally a .012 set.

  23. #22

    User Info Menu

    Zombie thread!

    Hey folks, I just got a Joe Beck Alto, finally, after a decade-long hunt. This is the 3rd I've come across since starting the search for one.
    And, boy, it's fantastic to play.



    All the stuff I've been playing suddenly sounds a lot like it could have been played by Joe (without wanting to compare myself to his level).Cort Joe Beck Alto

    Here's a couple of bits I recorded last night, warts and all.







    Bluesette backings on a Cort Joe Beck Alto guitar (Eb) - YouTube

    It plays well for what it is - low-to-mid range Korean. But it's the tuning and especially the bass strings that completely set it apart as a unique instrument. I could totally see myself gear up a pro model with this tuning at some point in the future.

    Only blemish is that it's missing the truss rod cover. Does anyone have one for sale, or have a close-up of one for me?