Tenor and Plectrum Guitar

[Greentone]

I was just watching some videos of The Mills Brothers on a thread on the forum. In early Mills Brothers films, John Mills Sr, the Mills Brothers father, sings, imitates bass with his voice, and he plays the tenor guitar to accompany the group. He was a very talented guy.

This got me to thinking...I wonder if any guys on the forum play the plectrum or tenor guitar? In the jazz age it was very common. You see, many of the guitarists in big bands and small groups came to the guitar from the banjo--which was much easier to hear over the horn section, and which recorded more easily than guitar. It was an easier jump--once archtops came out--to move from banjo to a tenor or plectrum archtop guitar. Gibson made bunches of them.

I figure Rob McKillop plays the four-string...he is an accomplished banjo player. Anyone else?

[Petimar]

I play tenor and have messed around with plectrum. Tenor tuning to me is much more versatile (maybe saying this as I am a mandolin player). I really like the tenors pitch range, very complimentary to standard guitar tuning.

I've owned several over the years, currently play a '28 Gibson flat top tenor. Amazing sound from such a little box.

[s1track3d]

Thanks for the post. I wasn't familiar with tenor guitars and had never seen one. I just did some reading up, interesting.

In general I like the idea of tuning in 5ths (or 4ths) for all the great symmetrical patterns they produce. The maj 3rd interval spacing between G-B on guitar has always been an odd spot I thought, I know why it's there (I think - try playing ringing open chords (triads) without it) but it messes up the much more logical layout. (at least for scale patterns and such)

Another instrument you don't see much anymore is the Baritone guitar, I really dig Wes' playing on Movin' Along, "Tune Up" for instance. I'm not sure how much the baritone was used in a jazz anyway but I really dig that sound.

[Rob MacKillop]

Forgive me, Greentone, for jumping in with a plectrum banjo piece. I'd love to hear this on a Plectrum Guitar - by which I am assuming you mean a 4-string guitar, longer than a tenor guitar. The tuning from the bass is CGBD. This is from c.1930, Lazy Rhythm by the wonderfully named, Bertie Bassett:

And while I'm at it, here's Blue Stocking by A.J. Weidt, c.1920, for tenor banjo, but here played on a cello banjo, tuned as a cello, CGDA. An octave higher would give the same tuning as a tenor guitar. Again, I'd love to play this stuff on a tenor guitar. Maybe someday.

OK, it's not exactly what you asked for, Greentone, but I do love sharing this forgotten music...

[Greentone]

Rob...great! (I play tenor and plectrum too). Pkectrum guitars are tuned like 5 string banjos without the 5th, drone string. They have long scales like a pkectrum banjo.

Tenor guitars really project. Tiny Grimes played one in the trio with Art Tatum.

[Rob MacKillop]

The master...

[vintagelove]

I have a buddy who has a Gibson tenor guitar (looks 175'ish). Wish it had two more strings..... and was left handed.

[Eddie Lang]

I've dabbled in tenor guitar. Quite fun, but I would have needed to spend way more time with the CGDA tuning to get better at it. That tuning allows great chord voicings.

Here is a 1937 0-17T (on the left) that I used to have - and still kick myself for selling.





The early Mills Bros. stuff is fantastic.

And here is Otto Heimel on tenor guitar with Gene Austin.

[Eddie Lang]

Not jazz, but I really love the old Delmore Brothers stuff. Two voices, a 6-string and a tenor guitar.

[D.G.]

I have a Blueridge tenor which I keep in 5ths tuning. I mainly play pseudo-celtic on it, but I really need to take some lessons with a jazz mandolin player someday to try and get an actual handle on 5ths tuning in a jazz/swing context...

[oldane]

Eddie Condon played tenor guitar all his life. Wes played 4 string guitar until he switched to 6 string 19 years old.

[brad4d8]

Eddie Condon played tenor guitar all his life. Wes played 4 string guitar until he switched to 6 string 19 years old.

I believe Condon played the plectrum guitar, longer scale and slightly different tuning:
>The plectrum guitar is a close four stringed relative of the tenor guitar with a longer scale length of 26–27 inches and tunings usually based on the plectrum banjo - CGBD or DGBD. Plectrum guitars are also very suitable for guitar tuning–DGBE–because of their longer scale length but are much less suitable for CGDA tuning because of the high A string. Plectrum guitars were not made in as large numbers as tenor guitars and are now more rare.<
(Tenor guitar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

[Petimar]

If I remember right Wes' tenor was tuned to the top 4 of std guitar tuning. To me the feat and hard part of tenor is the 5th tuning. Great for chords and voicings and a bich to solo with!

[Greentone]

It's not difficult to solo with fifth tuning. If you play violin, banjo (tenor), and mandolin, then it's not tough to solo on the instrument. It is just different. Even if you are a guitarist or a uke player, you get used to mandolin/banjo tuning pretty quickly.

[Billplectrum]

This is an old thread, but I have been looking for a place to share info about plectrum guitars and players and this popped up. I play a plectrum guitar. Used to be a plectrum banjo player but switched over the years. I found the guitar sound to be more pleasing and much more comparable with other styles of music than Dixieland etc. Plectrums are generally tuned CGBD which is what I used. There are others. But with the guitar I found that lowering the tuning to AEG#B made it much more compatible with other guitar players. This has worked out really well. It makes it easy to combine cord melody associated with plectrum banjo, and single note style associated with standard guitar. Sure would be nice to hear from other plectrum players.

[Hep To The Jive]

The master...

Wow, so cool! Wonder if he's tuned like a tenor banjo, CGDA? Or tenor guitar tunes differently?

[Woody Sound]

I wonder if "back in the day," if the banjo purists thought of them as heresy.

[hotpepper01]

I recently picked up a plectrum banjo and tuned it to DGCF and use it for playing rythm in a bigband. Just to get another kond of sound in the rythm section. It works for me when playing shell chords using the regular chord shapes..

[Donnie]

My 1950 LT-5, I also have a 1932 Gibson flat top, and a 1959 Martin 0-17T. Actually I don't even own a Six String anymore. I met John Lawlor at the Astoria Tenor Guitar Gathering last year- amazing player to say the least!

[sgosnell]

Howard Alden plays both tenor guitar and banjo occasionally. He has a Benedetto tenor, and there is one for sale on the Benedetto website. The sticker shock was painful.

[Mike Anderson]

And then there was also this:



The Vega Tenor Lute. Eddie Condon played one:

The guys in the Mound City Blue Blowers seem to have liked them too:

Would love to get my hands on one, but don't imagine they show up often.

[Billplectrum]

This is great. Nice to hear from four string players. I was at the TGG the last two years and got to hear John Lawler. a treat. I was, however the only plectrum player there. The last two years I got to hear and play with Tim May and Grant Flick, and Tyler Jackson. Absolute masters. Listening to them improvise with each other was amazing. I am not sure it is going to happen this year which is too bad for us.

[s11141827]

I've played Jazz on a Tenor Guitar by having it tuned like an Octave Mandolin:

& adding a Pickup