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Hi guys,
For 3 years now,I have a really nice sounding Ibanez George Benson GB-10 built in 1979.
I bought it as an used instrument and the former owner had it all the time lying in the case so it had corrosion problems on the gold hardware and mechanic parts. It was not urgent, and I played on it a lot. So I didn't had to change parts... Until this summer. I put it in the case for a few months. (I thought I like more the diversity of my AS-200.)
The strings were really rusy of course, I changed them but already after a few days the new strings had the same problem. So I really have to do now something.
I've read that the material of the pickguard caused the corrosion on that guitars, so I have to replace it by a new one. I wanted to order a new one from Ibanez form the current GB-10 (built until 2011) but I don't know if it will match well. I asked also my dealer and contacted Ibanez and Hoshino but they don't know...
The pickup-covers are attacked to by the corrosion. Not to bad, but I think I should replace them too, to avoid any return of the corrosion. But I only need new covers and I can't find them on the internet. Ibanez only sells the pickups with the covers. The pick-ups I have are fine for me, so I'm just searching new covers.
Do you know if a pickguard of a newer GB-10 matches on my old one (built in 1979)?
Do you know were I can order only the covers for the pickups?
And last but not least: Will the problem with the corrosion be solved or do I have to replace more parts?
Thank you all for helping me! I'm struggling with this for 2 months now...
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11-21-2014 02:53 PM
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Maybe Photos are useful. (sorry for double-posting)
Note: The Pickguard and the pickups have been demounted by my luthier. That's why they are one the guitar at the moment.
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If it was mine, I'd route it for regular-sized humbuckers and put an Electric City Pickups RD-59 set and a TOM bridge.
RD-59, RD-59LW and RD-59 Hybrid | Electric City Pickups
STEWMAC.COM - Gotoh Tune-o-matic Bridge with Standard Posts
No pickguard ever required again.
https://www.sadowsky.com/archtops/sh.html
Wait! Looks like I've re-invented the Sadowsky...
HTH,Last edited by LtKojak; 11-22-2014 at 08:50 AM.
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And then I'd have the body replaced with an 18" New Yorker body and the tuners replaced with vintage Grover step set. Oh yes, and I'd have the neck rebuilt for 7 strings.
Originally Posted by LtKojak
If it was mine, I'd route it for regular-sized humbuckers and put an Electric City Pickups RD-59 set and a TOM bridge.
RD-59, RD-59LW and RD-59 Hybrid | Electric City Pickups
STEWMAC.COM - Gotoh Tune-o-matic Bridge with Standard Posts
No pickguard ever required again.
https://www.sadowsky.com/archtops/sh.html
Wait! Looks like I've re-invented the Sadowsky...
HTH,
And whatever music you played on that guitar, I'd stop it right now, it doesn't sound good.
(wait... that's not really what you were asking, was it?)
David
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Those old celluloid guards rot and produce nitric acid .... nothing you can do once it starts. I've got an old Gibson ES355 guard which I keep in the freezer (stops it getting any worse).
If you're in the USA (even if you're not) These guys will make an exact repro for your guitar out of newer materials that look authentic but don't rot. I think you can even send them the original guard to make sure you get an exact copy Pickguardian | Quality Handmade Custom Pickguards
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Seriously, it may be easier to find someone that does plating. There are places that do electroplating for electrical components and places that have done some amazing plating for restored saxophones. That could be a good route. I'll look through my parts drawer and see if I can find my old tailpiece, if so, I can send it to you. Having worked at Hoshino USA, I'd say you're not going to find just the covers easily, and you don't want the new pickups in there. I'd say having them re-plated could be your best option. They do have new pick guards and they're not an uncommon replacement. The specs on them have not changed.
David
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+1 on getting them replated. FYI, you might look into finding a custom motorcycle or car shop for that. Several yeads back I had some guitar HW replated, found a custom motorcycle shop, they did a great job. Originally Posted by TruthHertz
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Thanks already for your answers!
@ LtKojak
Yes, I could do that. But I don't want to, I still want to have my George Benson.
@ oldtube
Thanks for this website! If a new pickguard doesn't fit on the guitar I have still the option to send them my old one! That's for me already good news for a plan B! :-)
For the corrosion. I don't want to keep the guitar in a freezer. I want to play it regularly, so even if I replace all mechanic parts on it, it will not stop?
@ TruthHerz
Hi David, my luthier told me the same thing with the plating. And I went to a jeweler and showed him the covers, he told me that plating could give it a few more months but after a while the corrosion could'nt be stopped. Also it would be not a cheap job for him. So I told him I would try to find new ones first they would last longer. But you're right. To find just the covers is really difficult!
Yeah I don't need the new pickups in there. But I don't know why you wrote this, because there's such a big difference between the old and the new ones? (the PU's its 70€ each...) (I tried out a new GB in a guitarshop 2 years ago.... sounded pretty much like plastic in comparison to the old one)
You think I should replace the tailpiece too? Does it look so bad?
But, when you'll find your tailpiece just let me know via message than we're going to discuss the details. etc
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+1 for a replate. I had a old JS pickup cover replated and it came out flawless. I do believe it has a thicker coat of gold then original as it still looks brand new. Asian plating is never very good.
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Jeweler's priorities and methods may be different, and I think their clientele will probably allow a different pricing world. Bicyclists work with gold anodizing of parts for bling and protection, electronics industry does this as a matter of course, auto industry needs rugged and they're not selling jewelery, I think if you look in the right places you can find something that will last pretty long, but yes, in the end, it will wear off. Get the old pieces stripped thoroughly in an acid bath then have it plated immediately to reduce any layer of oxidation. You can also get a clear lacquer applied over it to further prolong the effects of wear. Originally Posted by Loro
I was dissuading you from considering getting any replacement pickups from Ibanez because those vintage ones are special. Just making sure that was not on the option list. I will tell you that I picked up a newer GB-10 and I didn't like the pickups and I had MJ at Duncan wind me up a set of Duncan customs. Fit perfectly and OMG do they sound great. But that's because there was a sound I was after and it certainly wasn't going to come from modern Ibanez PUs.
The tailpiece is fine, and do keep it. I know you were concerned with the effects of the corrosion, and a good gold plate will protect the piece from any irritating oxidation -and again, if you can find a plater, it's worth gold!
David
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A jeweler is the wrong way to go. You need to go to a industrial plater and have the parts polished then triple plated. First copper then nickel then the gold.
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[QUOTE=Loro;479041]Thanks already for your answers!
For the corrosion. I don't want to keep the guitar in a freezer. I want to play it regularly, so even if I replace all mechanic parts on it, it will not stop?
Lol! it's just the scratch plate that's in the freezer, the guitar is very much out and being played! Remove the scratch plate from the guitar, particularly when storing it in a closed environment such as a case and the problem goes away.
I'm only keeping the old celluloid scratch plate so as if I ever sell the 355, I have all the original parts, even if they are kaput.
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Ordinarily I leave what Gibson guitars get on their metal parts alone, but yours is very different. +1 for the industrial plating house. Triple chrome / gold:
" First copper then nickel then the gold"
This Is what a plater will do, jewelers won't stabilize the metal the way a guy who does bumpers will :-)
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Thank you all, this helps a lot! I'm going to check if I find an industrial plater then. Should not be difficult :-)
I'll just order a new pickguard and keep the old one somewhere else.
@ oldTube
Yeah you got me there! ;-) I didn't mind it's not my guitar so... but only the scratch plate in the freezer makes more sense, yes :-)
Last question: In the future, I have to avoid to let the guitar to long in the case, right?
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The issue has been the celluloid pickguard "gassing out" as it degrades over time (same problem as old movie film). As part of its reaction with air, a gas is released which converts to nitric acid when it comes in contact with metal ... it won't react with the gold per se on your fittings, but that gold plate is only microns thick and in effect porous, so it reacts with the nickel / copper underneath, blisters form underneath gold and it all flakes off. Same with the steel of your strings.
Remove the pickguard or have it replaced with a modern intert plastic replacement and the problem goes away. Leave it in the case as long as you like ... but of course guitars are made to be played .. not stored in cases!
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New materials will not be so destructive. Wood is nice too! But yes, in general and for many reasons, an instrument in the hands of a player will do much better for both parties than being kept in a case.
David
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Celluloid pickguards are completely unpredictable. Seen some that are 50 years old and perfect and some that start gassing after a decade.
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With the playing you are all right! The 2 & 1/2 year where I played on it regularly I had no problems. Now I know how fast it can go. I'll change the parts and then t will be played again for the next years!
Thanks! :-)
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You got to take a good look at the inside of the case, especially in the area that the pick guard was close to when the case was closed. I would think a new case is in order. Those older GB's are really great guitars and I DO believe the pick guard has changed a little so it would be better to get a new guard made using the old one as the template. I remember a fella on the Ibanez Forum many years ago getting an ebony replacement made, it was gorgeous and of course no more worries about decaying plastics. I found a '78 real cheap on consignment at Guitar Showcase in '88. Guard all warped to hell, no case, plating starting to look ratty. I paid $700.00 for it and it was so sweet (but ugly too). Amazing I found a brand new pick guard at an Ibanez dealer in Palo Alto, it was in a parts bin they let me go through (I was a good customer). Got some jeweler ladies I knew who did a lot of plating to redo the pickup covers, I lived with the way the tailpiece looked and got a nos case from a Guitar Center. Loved that guitar to death, but while in chef school had to sell her to make the rent. I knew the guy in the store liked it, he wouldn't stop playing it. Was like leaving your favorite dog behind at a shelter when I walked out of there.
Get it fixed up, those old GBs are hard to beat.
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These guys do horns. They will do pickup covers. Anderson Silver Plating .
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Hi! Guys. Is there any difference in sound between old Gb10 (70s, 80s, for example) and Gb10 2000s?
Thank you!
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Yes, by report of people who have played both. I have an '81 and have never played a newer one. My '81 sounds great IMHO. I replaced my pickguard with one made from wood. Turned out lovely, there is a thread on the forum about it. Originally Posted by Art310
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Some owners claim that there are differences, mainly due to the hotter pickups used after the late 1990's. Ibanez doesn't publish many details about their 'Custom Wound GB Special' pickups used, but they are rumored to be in the 13 K ohm range. I own a '79 and '96 GB10 and the later model definitely has the hot pickups. I turn the volume down to 8 and it sweetens things up quite a bit. The '79 pickups are perfect as is.
Here's a site with additional specs:
GB10 | Ibanez Wiki | Fandom
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