The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    I am looking into buying a new Eastman Archtop and am considering whether to replace the pup at the point of purchase for a bare knuckle. I know I could wait and see if I get on with the standard Kent Armstrong designed one, but if I replace upfront I'll get free fitting and its less hassle.

    I know pup choice is subjective, but I was wondering how many Eastman owners out there stuck with the standard KA pup and are happy with it. Bottom line I suppose is that if the pup is a weak link I might as well upgrade at purchase.

    Any thoughts gratefully received.

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  3. #2

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    EAstman has started using Seymour Duncan's on many of it's thin line guitars (the T18* models), if you can get a better pickup such as a made in America Kent Armstrong, a Benedetto (made by Duncan now) or a Bartolini and they do the install for free at time of purchase I would say go for that deal. I have a really early 810, I have a T186smd and a Yunzhi copy of a John Pisano (floating pickup). I played these guitars before I upgraded from the stock from the factory pickups. The 810 had a MIK floater, changing over to an older hand made Kent Armstrong "Benedetto" embossed floater with better pots and wiring, the change in tone was night and day. Same deal when I upgraded the mik Kent Armstrong hum buckers to a SD59 and an Ibanez Super 58 (what a combo !!) and lastly the Yunzhi Pisano copy with Wilkinson designed floater - that's getting a Bartolini 5J floater. It's a combination of better pickup and wiring components that does the job.

    Their basic hand built, hand carved arch tops and semi's are hard to beat, factor in an amazing set of electronics and you're set for a very long time at a very, very good price !!

    Best of luck, report in on what you do and what you think of the results. Play the guitar before you upgrade if you choose to. It'll show you what a smart move that was.

  4. #3

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    EAstman has started using Seymour Duncan's on many of it's thin line guitars (the T18* models), if you can get a better pickup such as a made in America Kent Armstrong, a Benedetto (made by Duncan now) or a Bartolini and they do the install for free at time of purchase I would say go for that deal. I have a really early 810, I have a T186smd and a Yunzhi copy of a John Pisano (floating pickup). I played these guitars before I upgraded from the stock from the factory pickups. The 810 had a MIK floater, changing over to an older hand made Kent Armstrong "Benedetto" embossed floater with better pots and wiring, the change in tone was night and day. Same deal when I upgraded the mik Kent Armstrong hum buckers to a SD59 and an Ibanez Super 58 (what a combo !!) and lastly the Yunzhi Pisano copy with Wilkinson designed floater - that's getting a Bartolini 5J floater. It's a combination of better pickup and wiring components that does the job.

    Their basic hand built, hand carved arch tops and semi's are hard to beat, factor in an amazing set of electronics and you're set for a very long time at a very, very good price !!

    Best of luck, report in on what you do and what you think of the results. Play the guitar before you upgrade if you choose to. It'll show you what a smart move that was.
    Also, if the dealer is close enough you can go visit in person, take your amp along. I think you will really know if the guitar is for you if you play it thru your amp and like it. No rude
    surprises when you get it home and plug it into your amp.

  5. #4

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    I have a puzzle at the moment with my standard KA on the AR 403. Though my amp it sounds like the strings are unbalanced, the top E and B sound a lot louder than the wound strings (daddario flat wounds). And I was considering changing the pickup or at least getting a tech to adjust the pole pieces. But I put the guitar through my Focusrite preamp and into my DAW and the strings sound perfectly even. It sounds really good and gives me the sound u want. So now I am a bit puzzled. It is the same amp (Roland acoustic 60) that I used in the shop to test the guitar and sounded fine there, or I just did not notice it. I need to go and play it through a bunch of different amps to figure out what is going on. So for now I am holding off swapping out the pickup. Hope that helps.

  6. #5

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    I have a 7 string Eastman. I had only two gripes with it: The beautiful, but thin and chipping finish, and the plugged in sound. Very shortly after I got it, I switched the PU to a Benedetto S7 and at last fell in love with the total sound of it.
    I should say that I like the acoustic sound and I strive for that quality in a pickup-warm and clear on the attacks, good midrange balance on the sustain. I also play finger style. I don't roll it off- so my ear and tastes may be different from yours. Many others like the stock pickups just fine, their personal set up may work better with the KA.
    So now the sound is no longer thin and brittle, nothing I can do about the progressively chipping finish though...
    David

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_S
    ...And I was considering changing the pickup or at least getting a tech to adjust the pole pieces. But ...
    Lot's of people have swapped pickups, and many are happy they did. On my AR403 (roundwound 12's), I didn't, and here's why:

    I adjusted the stock pickup for tone and balance myself. It's really easy - all you need is a screw driver or two and your ears, and no one else can do it as well as you can. Here's how I do it (with all my guitars) -

    I adjust the overall height and tonal balance of each side of the pickup with the screws that hold it in the mounting ring - clockwise raises the pickup, counter-clockwise lowers it (because the screw doesn't move up and down - the pickup moves up and down on the screw as it's turned). Closer to the strings = hotter and fatter; further away = clearer and more acoustic sounding. (With a 2-pickup guitar, there's also the balance between the 2 pickups to consider, but that's perhaps for another thread.)

    Then I adjust the tone and volume to find the sweet spot. It may be with both knobs at 10, but mine is generally with the volume's 10 pointing straight up and the tone's 8 pointing straight up ... on this guitar.

    Finally, I adjust the polepieces to achieve string-to-balance. I turn them 1/8 of a turn at a time - ideally lowering (in this case clockwise) the ones that are too loud. I test the result all over the fingerboard.

    Of course, the tone is not just in the pickup - strings, pick, right-hand technique all play a major role, and ...

    Then there's the amp! I play my AR403 exclusively through a stock Henriksen JazzAmp 112. It sounds absolutely wonderful paired with this amp with minimal EQ tweaking. It does not sound nearly as good with my other amp - a JazzAmp 110 with a Weber California speaker. However, my Godin Montreal Premiere sounds absolutely wonderful with the 110 and just pretty good with the 112. So, the guitar/pickup/strings/pick - amp/speaker combination is obviously critical. (I've given up on trying to own versatile amps, If it sounds really great with one particular guitar, it's a keeper (assuming it weighs under 35 pounds).

    By the way, I generally set the amp's EQ knobs all at 12 O'Clock and the volume at a reasonable level for testing. Once I get the pickup where I want it, I'll fine tune the amp's EQ to make sure it's the best adjustment it can be ... for now.

    That's what works for me.
    Last edited by Tom Karol; 09-08-2014 at 10:09 AM. Reason: Yes

  8. #7

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    Thanks Tom,
    I did very gingerly try and screw the pole pieces but it did not move very easily, and not having done it before thought that I might do more damage than good if it went wrong. But I may try again following your notes.

  9. #8

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    Ian,

    If the pickup is wax-potted, sometimes there is a bit of resistance the first time you turn the screw. But my number one rule when adjusting things that turn on guitars - truss rods, bridges, tailpieces, pickups, etc. - is to never force anything. (Second rule is to make adjustments in small increments. Third rule is to note exactly what adjustments I made and how, so I can go back to the way it was if I think I may have done more harm than good.) Good luck.

    ~ Tom

  10. #9

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    I think you ought to play it for a bit and see what you think of the pickups. But it's not only about the pickups, the rest of the electronics (pots, jack, wiring, etc) can potentially be upgraded at the same time as a pickup change.

    I replaced the stock electronics in my AR403 with a Gibson 57 classic and tonally the difference was subtle/small. But I also replaced all the electronics and have the peace of mind of quality pots, jacks, and wiring. So all in all, I am happy I did the swap because now I feel like it's a top quality guitar inside and out. I'm now considering and likley to do my T386. I have come not to like the feel of the pickup selector switch on the T386 and also its jack as it doesn't snap in nice and tight like a switchcraft does.

    When it comes to pickup changes, when you switch to the same general type of pickup, don't expect huge tonal differences. The stock pickup is in the PAF family...so if you're replacing it with another in the PAF family, the tonal change might not be large. Now if you go from a humbucker to a humbucker sized P90, than that's a big difference.
    Last edited by monkmiles; 09-08-2014 at 12:14 PM.

  11. #10

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    those KA-licensed stock pickups are a poor match for the brighter sounding Eastman archtops, IMO. I have purchased three Eastman archtops, and for each, I replaced the floating pickups with a Vermont made Kent Armstrong 14-pole adjustable pickup, the PAF-0 slightly overwound version, which Kent recommends to tame some bright. Call him and he will set you up. Miraculous improvement every time!

  12. #11

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    My experience with KA pups is limited to floaters, but I have a KA licensed and a KA handwound that look the same, but sound completely different. The handwound lives on a guitar and sounds great. The import is in the parts drawer where it belongs. The licensed set pups may be better, but if my experience is any indication I'd swap it out.

  13. #12

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    I have an Eastman 803CE w/ stock KA p/up, and it sounds fine to my ears! I also have many other guitars w/ boutique humbuckers as a referance point as well.

  14. #13

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    not a fan of the KA licensed stuff.
    a friend bought one for me thinking it was a 'real' KA.
    how many have been fooled...
    buyer beware i guess but this has happened to so many brands for precisely the reason of fooling people.
    whats this called? junking the brand for profiits...

  15. #14

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    I have an AR910CE with stock KA floater and TI Swing 13s and I'm very happy with the tone, not aware of anything that needs to be improved upon. Its a nice alternative to the tone of my ES 175.

  16. #15

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    I had the same problem with my AR680, I guess this happened due to the acoustic sound from the box itself, not though the amp. The acoustic sound from the archtop mix with the amplified sound make you think it sounds unbalanced. (i.e. some strings are too bright and treble.

    Not sure how does other manufacture design a jazz box sounds electrically, modern sound? (Gibson, epipehone and Ibanez)

  17. #16

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    Hi,

    If you retain the stock pup and change the electronic, will it change the sound and tone?

    Cheers,

  18. #17

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    I swapped the KA floater for a Benedetto S6 in my AR810CE. There was an improvement.

  19. #18

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    The stock KA floater on my AR910CE had a very low output. I could compensate by turning up the amp volume and thought it was fine. Only recently I have swapped it for a handwound KA floater and it is a huge improvement, not only in ouput but also in tone. As if the stock pickup wasn't able to catch the really sweet tones of the guitar and the handwound pickup is. I still need to try different sets of strings but the upgrade was definitely worth the money.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Falling_leaves
    Hi,

    If you retain the stock pup and change the electronic, will it change the sound and tone?

    Cheers,
    Depends what you change and what you change them to. Worth a read: Guitar Electronics And Tone | Guitar Columns @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com

  21. #20
    My first response would be to just keep the original pickup and play it and get used to it - see if it works for you. But having one put in before you take it home has some advantages like you say. Those Bare Knuckles pickups are great. The p90 Manhattan sounds really cool for jazz.

  22. #21

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    I have an early 805CE and the pickup was pretty bad -- it simply was not very well made. I switched to a Benedetto 6 and the change took the guitar from being an annoyance to having a nice, well balanced sound.

    I believe that Eastman has improved their build quality since the early models. So how people feel about the stock PU will depend on the age of their guitar.

  23. #22

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    I swapped the KA in my AR371 for a humbucker sized P90.

    It was a good move

    btw, it is a Vintage Vibe Guitars P90.

  24. #23
    It’s the caps that let down these pups on Eastmans. Especially if your tone pot is fully thrown 20% into the rotation.
    The pups are fine just get a tech to get a fuller linear response with better caps coupling and you’ll like them a lot. Once you getting full resistance from the tone pots your laughing.