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Laminated construction of the body but the neck is 5 ply with no scarf joint.
Originally Posted by Little Jay
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05-04-2016 07:13 AM
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I would agree with the assessment of the PE-180 pickups. They are excellent sounding, even with the crud on them from the decomposition of the pickguard.
Good to see "Lost in the Cosmos" on your shelf, by the way. Percy was family. He always considered himself a "failed physician," but he was far, far more than that.
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You know, your Aria was made by Matsumoku to sell for Y300,000 in 1977 in Japan. That was $1,000 US back then. That was _very_ close to the selling price of a L-5CES, at that point. Matsumoku put their best effort into that guitar.
Although it looks like a L-5 (Super-V, actually), I suppose its real analog at Gibson is the old, full-scale ES-350/Tal Farlow--which is a heck of a jazz box. Think of it as an ebony fretboard/Super-400 headstocked version of the ES-350...with L-5 tailpiece. Quite a deluxe guitar.
I think that the thin laminate top contributes to one heck of a sweet tone on the Aria.
As you point out, Lawson, the neck carve is dynamite. For me, it is just about the perfect neck on an archtop guitar.
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Yes, the neck is a bit of a delayed reaction. I have guitars with all kinds of different neck thicknesses and I like them all. This one looked at first like a typical "thicker than the Epiphone Broadway" neck. But it's not quite the ES175 thickness either. It's really very nice.
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Hey I had a question. The pots on this guitar all seem to have a point of resistance to turning at about 2. It doesn't feel like they're "stuck" but rather like a detent. If it were just one, I'd think it's a problem with the pot, but it's all 4. I'm wondering if they intentionally use pots with a detent just below the point where the signal is almost lost? Originally Posted by Greentone
Does yours do this?
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nope.
give them a cleaning, just make sure the cleaner doesn't react w/that poly finish.
StewMac has a cool little item to make it easy and less messy.
Pot Cleaning Cap | stewmac.com
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Greentone, Originally Posted by Greentone
While I agree that the PE-180 was a great top-of-the-line guitar for Aria back in the late 70s and early 80s, as far as I know, the PE-180 was a model originally built for export and not for the Japanese market. I don't recall ever seeing a Japanese language catalog with the PE-180. The Japan models were the L-1000 (either single or double top-mounted humbucker) and the L-1700C (an L5C usually in natural) and as far as i know back in the late 1970s, based on my collection of Japanese catalogs, the L-1700C was Aria's most expensive guitar in its entire range at JPY 170,000 and it was a fully carved top with five-ply neck.
A 300,000 yen guitar at the time would have been unheard of, from any brand.
At the time, Yamaha's top-priced guitar was the SG-2000 at 150,000 yen (and the SG-3000 Custom was only a bit more 10yrs later) and their top carved top hollowbody was the AE-18 at 120,000 yen, moving to 150,000 then replaced at the top at 200,000 yen by 1979 when they revamped the line to up prices. (AE-2000 replaced AE-18 at 200k, AE-1200 replaced the AE-11 at roughly 120k).
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Travesty. You could well be right. I believe I read toe 300K figure at a Aria fan site years back. The PE 190 was the corresponding top line Aria Pro II instrument to the one you mention. Fully acoustic with DeArmond floater, or a CC style pickup.
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Greentone,
Of the PEs in that category, only the 175 was sold in Japan as a PE model AFAIK.
The PE190s I have seen are real lookers. I have to imagine they play nicely. I loooove the L5C+RC1100 sound.
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Love it.* I had an Aria Herb Ellis many years ago and still regret not hanging onto it. My dream guitar at this stage is to find a nice L-7C that some misguided soul back in the 60's or 70's dropped a neck humbucker into. Sort of a poor man's WesMo. I couldn't bear to do that myself to a vintage instrument, but I'd be more than happy to take advantage of somebody else's mistake, lol.
*(Good thing zucker isn't still on the forum, though. There's very little he hates more than people who take pictures of their guitars on couches.)
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Alright, Greg. Didn't know if you'd still have pictures of your 190--since you sold it. It is a beauty...it just HAS to sound correspondingly beautiful, too. The one's I've heard sound stringy, articulate, and very, very jazzy.
By the 1970s, the Japanese were just killing it vis-a-vis turning out great jazz guitars, and they continued until high labor costs forced jobs to be moved to Korea, Indonesia, and China.
Say, has anyone ever seen a 190/CC in hand? I've only seen catalog photos.
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The PE-190 is also known as the Robert Conti model.
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I've got a real hankering for an L5 but sadly can afford it, these Aria copies look like a really good copy despite being laminated. I've read lots of good reports for playing jazz on these but the majority of what I play would be in church, with a gospel/roots/almost into blues territory sound, has anyone used one of these in that scenario?
The PE180 I've seen is for sale for £1400, which is the price range for the likes of a Gibson ES175 (if I'm patient), Heritage H575, Guild X500 - Are there any of these options which stand out as the obvious choice to you seasoned vets. ? Or anything I should consider which I'm not?
Thank you!
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I have a 70s Greco L5 copy, which is a very similar guitar to the PE180, but with a shorter scale. I'd say £1400 is a fair price in the UK. I've also owned all the others you mention, plus a couple of real gibson L5s.
I'd say it depends how much you want an "L5' sound, which is distinct from the sound of the others you mention. The jap
copies of that era fetch reasonable prices now because they are usually very well made, and do get in the L5 sound ballpark - for gigging purposes, they sound very similar in a band context. The disadvantages you probably know about - weight, bulk, feedback at medium levels.
Ok for blues, although not if playing in a very loud band, due to feedback - but the same goes for any full hollow body guitar
I'd say the 17" X500 would also be a good choice, if you can get one for £1400. That would be a good price.
The 175 and 575 are slightly different animals; different sound and tonal density, more 'thunk', less 'stringiness", lighter, easier to hold. But if you really have that L5 itch, a good 70s/ 80s copy is a good way to scratch it. Expect the possibility of electrical issues after 40 years, though, unless the electronics have been upgraded.
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Thanks for the reply Chris, I'm not entirely sure what tone I'm chasing but the closest I've found so far has been with a Greco ES175 copy and a solid wood Gretsch archtop with a p90 fitted (the gretsch was probably closer to what I was looking for tone wise).
Another spanner in the works could be an Eastman AR503 which seems to be solid topped and has just 1 pickup which I like. There's one on eBay right now for £550.
My only concern would be that it is much more of a 'strictly jazz' guitar?
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Here is Robert Conti (a great jazz guitarist) playing an Aria Pro II PE-180 on a jump blues number at a festival in 1986. It's interesting that Conti would use the PE-180 because Aria had out at the time the PE-190 Robert Conti model. The 180 sure sounds great here, though:
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"It's interesting that Conti would use the PE-180 because Aria had out at the time the PE-190 Robert Conti model"
probably a feedback issue w/the floater on a 190
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I also have a hard time "hearing" the kind of driving attack Conti demonstrating on a thinner topped guitar with a floater.
Right tools for the right tasks!
-Lawson
"Behavior that's admired is the path to power among peoples everywhere."-Beowulf
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Best sub $2000 archtop I've ever acquired, not discounting a GE I acquired 5 years ago for $1700 that was a total price outlier.
Don't compare the PE-180 to an Eastman, and more importantly don't compare an Eastman to the PE-180. An Eastman can't match the voicing of a PE-180, and vice versa. Apples to oranges. Unfair comparison.
That some say a PE-180 is a legitimate and affordable poor man's L5 is by all means no hyperbole, as the PE-180 has so many strengths, in build quality, playability, and tone, just for starters. If the PE-180 were built today they'd be $4-$5k guitars. $1400 for a used PE-180 is a no brainer.
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£1400, not $1400. Still, a reasonable deal.
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Here's something about the guitar. I have now and have owned in the past archtop guitars that are MUCH more expensive and have MUCH more name appeal than this one. That being said, I play no guitar any where near as much as I play the Matsumoku. The sound and the playability is so good that it is my go to guitar, even though I have guitars that even I drool over available at hand. It is _that_ good. The pickups on it, by the way, are STOOPID good.
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Well, after a short stint with the PE180 I bought, its going back. Unfortunately there was just to many electric gremlins that were supposed to have been sorted before it came to me - coupled with the fact that I have a real dislike for the plastic feeling of poly finishes, I very reluctantly returned it.
The size and the sound of the guitar were great, felt lovely to play and when it made sound, it made a great sound!
So thats leading me onto my next question, the replacement : I still would love an L5 but I still haven't won the lottery so thats out. I've been looking into Heritage Eagle Classics but they seem pretty thin on the ground (although I am speaking to a guy in Spain who has one for similar money to the Aria).
What I've seen though that has caught my eye is a Heritage Eagle Mahogany - all solid woods, big body shape that I like - essentially an all 'hog L5 right? My only concern is the floating pickup. Is a floating PAF but still. Now I'm not playing jazz with this for its main purpose, I'm playing gospel music, a bit of lead work, a blues jr with pedals infront - not your typical scenario for one of these machines. Would I be silly to jump on this because the pickups aren't set in? Think John Mayer on 'Where the light is' playing his L5 - thats the goal!
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Sorry to hear that. It's true that the japanese electrical work of that era often gives problems, but it usually an easy and inexpensive fix. Poly finishes aren't my preference either, it's difficult to repair, but it's not a deal-breaker for me. It didn't stop Guild selling their classic arch tops Originally Posted by mattblair
Like 2b and GT, I'm quite struck by just how often I pick up my Greco L100 ( basically the same guitar, just a closer rip-off and 24.75 scale) in preference to a Gibson or Slaman. That says something about these instruments.
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After a few more days to think I've asked the shop to take a look at the electrical issues and if they can be solved I may just be getting the Aria back. I think I may have been a bit hasty in returning as I'm really not sure what I would could replace it with for the same money!
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I just noticed the Tune-o-matic bridge... my PE180 has a wood bridge. Did you put the TOM on there or did it ship that way? Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
Best sub $2000 archtop I've ever acquired, not discounting a GE I acquired 5 years ago for $1700 that was a total price outlier.
Don't compare the PE-180 to an Eastman, and more importantly don't compare an Eastman to the PE-180. An Eastman can't match the voicing of a PE-180, and vice versa. Apples to oranges. Unfair comparison.
That some say a PE-180 is a legitimate and affordable poor man's L5 is by all means no hyperbole, as the PE-180 has so many strengths, in build quality, playability, and tone, just for starters. If the PE-180 were built today they'd be $4-$5k guitars. $1400 for a used PE-180 is a no brainer.
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