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  1. #1

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    I have a chance to purchase a late 70's Ibanez mod. 2464 (1976/78): still not tried but looks great in the photos. it is (I read from old ibanez catalog) 24" 3/4 scale and 17" spruce laminated.
    any thought?
    how much is a fair price in europe?

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  3. #2

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    Ibanez "Byrdland" mod. 2464-ibanez-2464-1976-jpg

  4. #3

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    a pair of them sold on the bay recently one for around $1500, the other $1200 [had replacement pickups]
    I'd expect them to sell for a little more across the pond.

    just be careful to make sure it doesn't have binding cracks, rot, shrinkage.
    many of those old Ibanez guitars have that issue.
    Last edited by wintermoon; 05-27-2014 at 01:58 PM.

  5. #4

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    Did you ever try one?
    is it a nice guitar?

    I love the benson's tone with these old ibanez (L-5 copy or JS copy)... is this byrdland similar?

  6. #5

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    I've had a few 2460's [their version of an L-5CES]
    I prefer a 25 1/2" scale, most Ibanez models from that era have a shorter 24 3/4" scale like an ES-175
    they all played and sounded good, but 2 of them had binding issues.

  7. #6

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    correction, the two that I mentioned that sold on ebay recently were 2455 [ES-175 copy] not 2464
    a 2464 sunburst sold for $1725 recently w/replaced pickups, pickguard and control knobs
    so maybe in the $1750-2000 range fora stock blonde

  8. #7

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    I know your OP was concerning price on these guitars, and I'm not addressing that directly. It seems you may be considering these instruments for purchase and I'm chiming in on that angle.
    If there is any chance you have to try them, please go out of your way to do so. I know there are fans of these around here and many will say they're a really good deal. I've tried, and worked with a fair number of these and I've found them to be pretty, nice to look at but heavy, not exceptionally responsive and the stock electronics were really flat sounding. They come from an era I call "the experimental and imitation" period. They were getting their chops together and trying to copy.
    Back in the day, a lot of talented players played them, and made them sound good. They were very affordable in that market. But I've found them to be less than competitive considering the current very affordable Asian guitars. Of course the contemporaries don't have the vintage cache but do take the time to do comparison playing on these guitars.

    Now if you ever come across an Epiphone Byrdland reissue, that's a different story completely. In my opinion anyway.
    Yes, it's all in your hands. This is just my hands speaking.
    Have fun
    David
    Last edited by TH; 05-27-2014 at 05:07 PM.

  9. #8

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    I've owned a mid 80's Gibson Byrdland in wine red finish. I also had a short scale Ibanez nt Byrdland and a 24.75 scale Ibanez. They were all nice guitars. I love the LOOK, but found the fingerboard too narrow and the spacing too small. So of all three B's I liked the Ibanez with a 24.75 inch scale. The Ibanez do not have carved tops and backs but if you play out in loud venues the solid (not carved) top and lam back will be just right, not feedback.

    TruthHertz really hits it out of the park though. The Epiphone Elitist Byrdlan is THE ONE in my eyes. The correct short scale, CARVED top and nice flame maple back, they also used exemplary woods for the neck, fingerboard and sides. They were made in the Terada factory and word going 'round the campfire was Gibson stopped having them made. They were too good for the price (street price about 3 years ago was roughly $1800.00). Now that they're no longer made and their rep is getting around U.S. price is $2000.00 to $2400.00. Those Epi Elitist are really very good...

    Really try playing a short scale one first, it might be too small in your hands, like I found the Wine Gibson and the "correct scale" Ibby to be. Here's a shot of my favorite, a '81 GB10 and the short scale Byrdland, I believe you can see the difference in the scale length in this shot. Look at and play some GB10s if you can. I find the sonic palate they can recreate is amazing and they really keep their value. I think of them as the tuxedo of guitars. Made since 1978... and still selling like hot cakes. eBay has a '78 with the flight case for 2Gs and it's clean...


    God Bless all, someday the admins will fill my request to be euthanized here and you'll have to ask me Ibanez questions over on ICW, Ibanez Collectors World...

    ​Be careful out there.
    Last edited by BigMikeinNJ; 05-27-2014 at 08:00 PM.

  10. #9

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    Yup. As long as you don't mind a little digression, what do you like about the Byrdland? Comfort? Thinner body? All good points. Remember that the ES-350 has a similar geometry depending on the vintage. Worth putting on your radar.
    Friend of mine has an Epi Byrdland. I'm jealous. I love it. They did everything right. I have no qualms about recommending that. Too, after Ibanez was through with imitating, they were forced to redesign their line and seriously go up against the existing designs. This was the early 80's and they scrapped all imitations and seriously built a line of guitars that were in so many ways superior to anything before and following. The George Benson, aforementioned by BigMike was a child of that era. I've got two of them from the time I worked for Ibanez, a Korean and a Japanese. Both of these are fine, fine guitars and personally, I had Duncan custom wind me a '59 Johnny Smith. That guitar is a treasure that has a comfort in my arms that is even more relaxed than the thin bodied Byrdlands, but different; not to dissuade you from your original pursuit.

    There are options, and you'll find that there are surprizes. Some are buried in history, others have undeserved mystique, but the best thing is for you to try as many as you can. If you have a sympatico with a guitar, even one that only you like, then it really is a good buy.

    Oh, if you ever get a chance to try a George Gobels L-5CT, thinner body, L-5 appointments and neck, check it out. If you like the Byrdland, this will make you cry.

    So many guitars. So much distraction from being a better player ha ha!

    David

  11. #10
    Depends where you live. In Europe 1,500 on a good day, 2,000 on a bad.

    For the money, is it a great guitar? No

    The epiphone will cost you less and probably be better but unlike what some excited players claim, I'm pretty sure they don't have a carved top :-)

  12. #11

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    many thanks for your advice.
    did you play that ibanez?

  13. #12
    Actually i haven't played that one but I have played the 2450 (if I'm right). Thats the L4 kind of copy.
    All the ibanez below the 2470 and fa700/800 pretty much had quite dull laminate spruce tops.
    Great guitars and full of mojo. for the right price I would buy an Ibanez Byrdland copy but I think their real value is of around the £1,000 mark and I certainly wouldn't pay more.

    The top on the Epiphone is solid but 'Arched'.

  14. #13

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    I feel a thread discussion coming on regarding solid, pressed, carved, arched, laminate and tuned tops. For those of you curious about some of this terminology, no need to ask, here're some past threads addressing these terms and some of our opinions on their merits:

    Pressed Solid Spruce- What Does This Mean?


    Hope this helps. There're a few really nice solid topped archtops that are not painstakingly hand carved and tuned, and the factories that turn out the Epiphone Elitists do great work but I've not seen hand carving coming out of them. That's one of the secrets of their keeping a priceline low. But that's not always the case. Eastman and a few new Chinese workshops are doing this at a very low price too, but that's another thread completely.
    This is just to stay the potential debate here. It's one of those perennial thread topics that pops up and goes on and on and on...
    David

  15. #14
    Dutchbopper Guest
    I used to own a 1977 Ibanez Johnny Smith. I know these 1970s Ibanez replicas are always touted as "from the golden age" and "better than the original" but that's BS in my point of view. They are nothing like the models they were copied from, not even specs wise. Still, they all look great. My Ibanez JS was stunning to look at but so so in the sound department. The 1983 Ibanez FG 100 I recently purchased is so much better ...

    I wrote a Blog entry on it. There's another one on the later FG 100.

    Dutchbopper's Jazz Guitar Blog: 1977 Ibanez Johnny Smith

    regards,

    DB

  16. #15
    Agreed all round.

    I also had a JS Iby (510nt) and was pretty disgusted with it. Not because it was a bad guitar but because of what it was trying to copy.
    I also think the FA-100 design (although there are two, the body recomposition happened around 82?) from the 80's onwards is a great guitar.
    I think they used the smaller slimmer body of the FA-100 to make the JP model and then the AF Artstar (korean) model and now the PM model, so in many ways, the FA-100 never went away.
    Im actually just about to buy a 1980 model :-)
    (fingers crossed)
    I look forward to reading your blog.
    Last edited by GoergeBenson; 05-28-2014 at 12:29 PM.

  17. #16

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    yesterday I have had the ibanez 2464 for a few days trial at home (the owner is an old friend of mine living few km from my house).

    it is a 17", 24"3/4 scale 335-type depth.
    the guitar has lost its original pickguard, has lost its wooden bridge for a t-o-m style one which is very corroded and has lost much of its original gold plating, the tail piece is a little corroded too, the binding has several cracks, the pickups have lost some gold plating and the volume and tone knobs don't work very well (some noise when rotate them and some mute spot from zero to six in one case).

    the top, back and sides of the body are ok, just some small scraping. the same for the neck, fretboard, headstock and tuning machines.

    I swapped the existing rusty strings, I did an important lemon oil work on the fretboard and I put on some thomastik flats .013.

    unpluged it has a decent tone: enough for children sleeping practice and pretty nasal;
    plugged into my jazz chorus 120 it revealed a very brillant and colored tone even at flat amp eq.
    the neck pick up (which I use the most) is very equilibrated in the different strings volume.

    but what did a really great impression to me has been the neck: great confort and no buzz at all, even at the very low action at which the guitar is setup (a little more than 1mm from the top of the 12th fret to the bottom of the string): much better (to me) than the today's middle price ibanezs that are on the market.

    maybe you should to know that my main guitar is a gibson L-5 ces, which I love, but I can't go lower than 2mm action (which is enough confortable anyway) on it. and with the L-5 it's not exactly a plug-and-play: I have to work a little with the amp eq knobs (with my jc amp at least) before to get its great tone.

    so, as I "need" a second guitar, more electric than the L-5 and less prone to feedback, and as I love the benson's late '70s tone, I'm thinking to buy it.

    now,
    my friend is asking 1.500 euro but bearing in mind the issues I mentioned above and considering that a mint condition ibanez FG100 is available in italy in the 800/1000 euro range, how much would you pay for this 2464?

  18. #17
    1,250

    Were is the Fa-100? lol

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoergeBenson
    1,250

    Were is the Fa-100? lol
    so you consider the 2464 higher value than the fg100?
    I believed they had the same worth...

  20. #19

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    Two overrated aspects/issues re byrdlands: the carved top and the small fingerboard:

    Just like L5CESs, these are not in any way, shape, or form acoustic guitars.

    IMHO the fingerboards are not limiting in any way. I have big hands, and go back and forth between the my '68 Byrdland and long scale guitars. The Bydland is easier to play for just about any style, but especially jazz.

    I have played an epi byrdland, but would take a real one every time on every point but the price.

    The original 50s L5CTs were acoustic guitars, at least the one I played. It is a smaller L5C, where the Bydland is a smaller L5CES. CES guitars are carved spruce, but they are not acoustic guitars.

  21. #20

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    What your friend has is a guitar where the pick guard degassed inside the case, look at the inside lid of the case about where the pick guard would be next to it, is the lining all thin and nasty ?? Corrosion on the plated parts, corrosion inside the pots and switches, corrosion on the tuners, cracked binding, yellowed finish (especially on a NT model) are all signs of pick guard gas damage. If there is not TOO much binding cracking AND the case is not damaged you could:

    get the pots cleaned
    replace the pick guard with a ebony guard
    other options:
    get the pickup covers replated (Byrdland pickups have narrower screw spacing than standard pickups
    maybe replace the tuners with Gibson tuners


    Get your friend to come WAY down on the price since it's gonna cost you a lot to do all that work, or borrow it for a good while and play it a lot. Then decide if you feel like investing in the work.
    The other option is to try to find an Epiphone Elite (or Elitist) Byrdland. Keep looking on eBay if you like that scale length guitar. The Byrdland model is surely a really attractive guitar, that thin body is really comfortable for long playing sessions, it does rock, country and blues also quite nicely.

    Good luck, it IS nice it is your friend who owns it and you can do a long try out.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigMikeinNJ
    ... are all signs of pick guard gas damage...
    many thanks for your advice but, sorry, what does "gas damage" means?
    which gas?

    and please, to any of you that could answer, as I'm not particularly in love with thin line, but I love absolutely the neck of this guitar, which could be the worth difference between the Ib. byrdland and the fg100?

  23. #22

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    Degassing or decomposition of the old style plastic, it's common on a lot of older arch top guitars with that tortoise shell type plastic pick guards . The worst cases is when a guitar is stored in the case all the time and starts to break down and react with parts of the guitar near the pick guard. Like my mentioning how did the inside of the case lid look near where it would be close to the pick guard. It's why I suggested getting someone to make you an ebony pick guard to replace the missing one. You never have the problem again with ebony.

    Try Yahoo or Google I am sure any number of sites talk about pick guard decomposing. I'll search if there are any threads here that talk about it. I could not give you an honest appraisal of the value of the guitar without seeing it and playing it. The extent of the damage to the case and the overall body finish and binding would change it's value. I tell people to search all the time, some people think I am being rude, but really I encourage people to search and learn, decide for themselves.

    At the right price the Byrdland could be what we call "a nice player" not a perfect collector's museum piece guitar, but a nice player. A guitar you would not worry about taking to a gig, some guitars are so gorgeous and pristine people are hesitant to even open the case. LOL... Best of luck deciding.


    Last edited by BigMikeinNJ; 05-29-2014 at 11:01 AM.

  24. #23
    The FG 100 is of far less worth. The Fa-100 is worth more than the FG and the Byrdland is above both lol

    The earlier and the more accurate or blatant the attempt at a gibson copy, means the higher the worth of the Ibanez.

    So the FG-100 is not a Gibson copy and its a early/mid 80's guitar.
    The Byrdland is older, a blatant copy of a Gibson and is rarer.

    So that is why the Byrdland is more expensive. The FG should be around 700-900 and a 'GOOD' byrdland copy around 1,500-2,000

    Your friends is not so good but plays well as you state, so if you can snag it for 1,250 you should be good, or at least able to sell it for that, if you wish to change :-)

  25. #24

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    Hey all I've got a '76 sunburst byrdland, wondering about approx value? Thanks

  26. #25

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    We are currently in the golden age of Asian guitar building Gianluca, circa 35 years ago, not so much. A "nice" Asian guitar at that time was the exception rather than the rule. I think you seriously need to comparison shop what the same money will get you in a new or used Peerless, Eastman etc.

  27. #26

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    One place to look would be eBay under Completed Items. That being said not many Ibanez Byrdlands come up for sale so in the 3 month or so that search might elicit you many see none. And asking price versus what it actually sold for can be two completely different universes. But my educated guess, for a burst version, with the correct short scale would be $1500.00 to $2200.00 - depending on the shape of the pick guard, did it outgas and tarnish the hardware, did said outgassing also eat the lining of the top just above the pick guard when the case it closed, is the binding intact (again discolored or cracked because of out gassing. A real problem with guitars of that era...

    A good buddy of mine from the Ibanez forum decided to sell off a number of very clean examples of L-5 copies and among them was his original short scale blonde Byrdland. To me he wanted around $2200.00 - but it was like new.

    If it is pristine then yes more around the 2k mark. I've been collecting and following Ibanez guitars since my first one that I got in 1965. I hope this ballpark figure helps.

    Big
    Last edited by BigMikeinNJ; 02-16-2016 at 05:59 PM.

  28. #27

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    Thank you very much for your post!

    Here are some pics of it if that helps also.





  29. #28

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    I've got a 2464 as a gift from a friend. It's not in the best shape, the pre-owner did some minor mods and he did it in a quite bad way so I decided to correct that in a proper way. One thing he did was to replace the original humbuckers with cheap p90. I understand why he changed buckers with p90s and I would like to buy some good ones.
    So here's my question: There's many options when it comes to choosing the magnets. That has great effect to the resulting tone. I've read, that those Byrdland models with p90s had alnico 5 magnets. Do you think that's a good choice for a 2464, too? I have no experience with this guitar so I can not decide that...
    Thanks for your opinions!