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Hi guys, I own a Twin Reverb and I find it to be to much watts for moderate and even large gigs. I find I have to have it really loud before it hits it's sweet spot. So I'm thinking about selling it and buying a Super Reverb which is 45watts opposed to a Twin which is 85. The Super has 4x10" speakers and the Twin 2x12". Would it be a wise move to sell the Twin and get a Super?
Your opinions will be much appreciated.
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02-08-2009 06:51 AM
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GT,
I have both amps, the twin reverb is a little darker than the super reverb, the 4 10's are naturally a little brighter, that said you can achieve a mellow tone with the SR. the SR will break up earlier than the twin, ( i have never turned the twin up loud enough for that to happen) but the SR will get crunchy at about 41/2 to 5 with humbuckers, i am generally below that.
it is really a toss up if, i think the twin gives you a more (easier eq) ready traditional jazz tone, and you could always put a pedal infront of it for a little distortion if that is what you are looking for.
you can't go wrong ( other than the weight ) with either one. honestly for small to medium gigs, i have used them both, even the twin in a small room, i like the tone even at low volume, i am generally using an ibanez gb 10, eastman, howard roberts, or PM. all sound good with both.
i would stick with the twin. i don't think you will gain anthing from the SR for jazz.
peace
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Thanks for the helpful reply jlc.
So tone wise you think there about equal even at lower volumes?
I've also read something about pulling two of the power tubes and disconnecting one speaker from the Twin for playing smaller rooms. Ever tried this?
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If you're looking for that pushed tube sound at lower volumes you should be thinking in terms of a sunstantially smaller amp. Perhaps something like a Deluxe Reverb or even a Tweed Deluxe.
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I'm not after break up just a fat clean tone.
I have thought about a Deluxe Reverb but at 22watts I'm worried it will break up to much when playing with a drummer.
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Ah, I see. Yes, the Deluxe Reverb or Deluxe will probably be underpowered.
How about a Pro Reverb?
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I haven't heard much about the Pro Reverb, but the specs on the Fender site sound good...
- 50 watts (switchable to 12 watts)
- Two 6L6 Groove Tube output tubes
- Seven 12AX7 preamp tubes
- One 12AT7 tube
- 1 x 12" Jensen C12N speaker
- 17-3/8" H x 25-3/8" W x 12-27/32" D
- 75 lbs.
The Pro does have wheels but even so.
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10 lbs heavier then a Twin?!? While having only one speaker and most certainly smaller output transformers?!? Must be a mistake.....
Thought about the newer Fender tube amps? The Blues Deluxe or the Hot Rod Deluxe.
I own a Blues Deluxe, which is also 2x6L6, 1x12", rated at 40W and I can play most jazz-gigs with it. Only if you want a loud undistorted clean-tone with a very loud band it will fall short, but I can't imagine it would fall short in any jazz-situation.
Mine is '93 model, and those have reliability issues, but the new re-issues are very good.
Martijn van Iterson, well known Dutch jazz guitarplayer, uses the Hot Rod Deluxe on stage and has a great classic jazz tone with his ES125.
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have you ever thought about getting away from the fender amps,and using something like a jazzkat, are roland cube 60 maybe a tech 21. id played tubes 35 plus years and broke down got me a jc 120 and looking at a cube 60 and i like them very well.but still got a couple of fenders a bassman and a twim in the corner of my music room.i use a boss boss fbm-1 pedal with my jc pretty cool. just an idea. lots of luck
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Originally Posted by gary mitchell
I do own a Cube 60 and love it. I use it for solo gigs and jams.
I also play with a band who does Jazz/Rock kind of stuff, so I prefer tubes for that stuff.
I've been looking at amps for the last few weeks and have found I really like the Rivera amps. There popular with rock and blues guys but I have seen a few straight ahead jazz guys use them. I'm looking at the Cubster 55 watt 1X12 combo. The lead channel is similar to a Marshall and the clean channel comes pretty close to a BF Fender tone. And the best part is it weighs 45lbs. Which is not light, but it's 20lbs lighter than the Twin.
I also tried a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe and my Peavy Classic 30 (which I think is an OK amp) but the Rivera beat them hands down.
It's not a cheap amp but I think it's worth the price. So I think I will sell the Twin and go for the Rivera. Anyone own or played one of these?
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I almost bought the Rivera Jazz Suprema instead of my Evans RE200.
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I use and have been using Hotrod Deluxe amps for the last 7 years at least maybe 8. Sometimes they are touch and go... mine both have worked fine over the years and are really versatile from Jazz to Christian Rock gigs to Country and loud as hell blues. They're 45W about 30lbs maybe a touch more. I bought a luggage cart from walmart to tug it around in situations where I have to carry it far. Fits on buses and subways without messing with people and in the boot of almost any car with way more then enough room.
They sound great, especially at around 4. I've recorded with them as well.
I teach using a Cube 60, I like it a lot as well as an easier to use amp. They are no good in big rooms as they lack the projection of a tube amp in a serious way and the mods on it don't help one bit even though there's a presence dial on it. It's great for the whole coffee shop sort of scene but if you're in a hall or a club, it's worthless to me.
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I had a Deluxe Reverb for years..it died on me and rather than have it fixed I bought Polytone Mini Brute II...and have been using it for 16 years...
time spent listening to sounds to enhance by you is time heading in the right direction...pierre
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I play jazz through a Roland cube 60, but if I had chosen for a tube amp it would have been a Rivera which I think has a very beautyfull clean sound.
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Why not get an amp tech to put a half power switch in for you?
Unless I am missing something, anytime I would take any of my fenders to my amp tech, we would talk mods, and the first one he would usually bring up was a half power switch.
Shouldn't be any more then $100 bucks and you get to keep your amp...
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If you own a Fender 65 twin RI you can take out tubes either 1 and 3 or 2 and 4 and you will cut the power in half about 42 two watts...I use a modified Fender Hot Rod Deluxe Weber alinico speaker ,6l6GC tubes ,reverb mod ect never have a problem being heard if I'm going to do a gig where I need massive head room I just replace the tubes with 8 to 10 rating and bias ...now no brake up before 8 on the volume.
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Have you solved your problem yet. I have The Twin. I pulled the 2 middle 6L6s, re-biased(1/2 of recommended), zeroed and dropped the ohm from 16 to 8. The amp was so strong at first I couldn't get the volumn over 2 when performing. I could always put them back if needed and I also have a fender BJ with Jensen speaker that sounds pretty clean for jazz. Check your amps instruction manual for the changes you need.
Randy
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What I use is either a Blues Jr NOS (tweed + Jensen speaker, and I installed a Ruby Reverb pan) or a Jazzmaster Ultralight. The former has a sweet tone, but the JM is more versatile, with two channels, reverb, chorus, delay and various combinations thereof.
Junior has 15 watts, Jazzmaster has 250; BJ is 31 lb, JM 26. I play a 335 through them (as well as an SG and a Les Paul) and I'm very pleased.
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Imo, anything much over 22 watts is a waste and creates a ton of weight. There is no need to play amps with 50 or so watts. A Deluxe Reverb will keep up with any drummer. You can always swap out the preamp tube to one that will not break up as easy.
As TDD points out, a 22 watt Tweed Deluxe works just fine in this setting. I have not ever had to push mine, and wind up using a attenuator to do so.
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Point. Every musician! Has a certain tone that they are trying to attain. "The Twin" has never disappointed me but the weight keeps it at home most of the time. I have 7 amps at home to chose from as the gig presents. I play a Gibson 335S Professional, 335, 125, Hagstrom HJ600 and Fender Jag ('65). Sound is subjective and if your setup makes you happy I'm behind you 100%. My gigs are mostly Jazz with some R&B and Blues but as long as I've live I've been trying different combination of axes and amps to get what I'm hearing in my mind to translate what I'm playing to an audience. When we achieve that we can play relaxed and enjoy the experience along with getting our idea of music and sound to the people paying the money to hear us. We all take pride in what we do or we wouldn't be here.
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Fender is catching on: The Pro Tube Twin Reverb has a quarter power switch that takes it from 100W to 25W, but if 25 is all you need, why are you lugging an 80lb amp?
To the original poster: if you are looking for a different amp, consider becoming an apostate and trying solid state (sorry about the rhyme). There are some really nice, warm sounding SS jazz amps, like Henriksen or JazzCat. There are also some "hybrid" ones with tube preamps: the Jazz Cat Tomcat and some Evans amps. I don't know if Evans is currently making hybrids, but I have seen used ones.
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This is an interesting thread. I’ve had a Rivera R55-Twelve (upgraded with a Weber California speaker and a long 6-spring reverb tank from Rivera) for 15 years. It’s a really great amp for jazz – or anything else. But I also have a Cube 60 which I actually use more frequently. Why? Because the Cube is 15 lbs lighter! The Rivera does clearly sound better and is considerably louder. But the Cube works well for 90% of the times I play.
(Speaking of loud: I had a ‘69 Twin Reverb (Silverface, no master volume) with EV SROs back in the day; it weighed 90 lbs! On a rock gig many years ago, a guy with a beat up old Tele sat in to do a blues number, and I let him use my amp. He flipped over to his bridge pickup and turned all the knobs on the Twin to 10 in one fluid motion! It sounded amazing, but – talk about loud – those sound waves are probably just now arriving at the outer limits of our solar system!)
So, in spite of its goodness, I’m thinking of trying to sell the Rivera, because I need to fund an obsessive fixation on getting a Henriksen JazzAmp 112! Just for fun, see below:
My amps over the years:
1961 Harmony
1967 Guild Thunderbird
1969 Fender Twin Reverb (SROs)
1974 Mesa Boogie (Altec)
1976 Polytone 102 (JBL)
1976 Yamaha GA50-112 (Altec)
1978 Music Man 115-65 (JBL)
1978 Polytone Mini-Brute
1987 Gallien-Krueger 250ML
1994 Rivera Fifty Five Twelve (Current)
1994 Fender Bullet Reverb
1998 Trace Elliot TA30R
2004 Roland Micro Cube
2004 Roland Cube 30
2005 Roland Cube 60 (Current)
2006 VOX DA-5
2007 VOX DA-10 (Current)
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There seems to be a definite upward trend in your rate of amp acquisition, Tom...
(I'm afraid to look at my list...)
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08-10-2009, 12:27 PM #24Jazzarian GuestLet's get some simple physics out of the way first. To double the perceived volume of a 45 watt amp,you'd need........450 watts. Therefore the difference between an 85 Twin and a 45 watt Super Reverb won't be that great. Originally Posted by green_tea
"Sweet Spot"???? You mean distortion? You'll go deaf with either amp trying for that. Most people like classic Fenders for the clean tone, not distortion. That's why they don't have a distortion channel. Nobody did until Mesa Boogie came along in 1973.
You'd be better served keeping the twin for clean jazz sounds and buying something like a Boogie, Two Rock, Fuchs, Glaswerks etc for distortion.
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Heh, I don't think that when people think of doubling the volume, they mean from 100 to 200 decibels Originally Posted by Jazzarian
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