Stromberg's - any ideas?

[teleman3726]

Guys
I'm trying to get a better understanding of these guitars since I see a few for sale and they tend not to move as quickly as vintage D'A's or Gibbys.
I read that the boxes made prior to 1940 were all laminate. True? Or was it only confined to the G series?
Has anyone played a G series or one of the advanced models, such as the Deluxe, 300 or 400? General thoughts? I saw a little clip of the Christie's guy (Kerry) mentioning Stromberg was part of the Boston school of luthier versus John D'A who was part of the New York School?
What's the difference?
Please add to this discussion if you can. I really can't find much information on these guitars beyond a few small websites or a discussion in VG.
Thanks
Chris

[fws6]

There is no good book on Stromberg's. There also is no ledger or serial number list that remained. Most of the info you find on internet is just copy-pasted from older references like the Gruhn books, which were quite okay 20 years ago but not very reliable as these were written long before the internet and some of that info is outdated.

Charles Stromberg initially made all kinds of instruments, also banjos, drums, etc. His son Elmer was later joining. With the Stromberg's guitars quality / desirability / price is is not so much about the model, but about the age of the guitar. The newer, the better.

First guitars were made in 1927 and have serials starting in the 300s (the Stromberg instruments with lower serial numbers are banjos). Last serials are from 1955 and run to approx. 640 (so about 300 guitars were made; not 600 as everyone is copying from Gruhn).

Models go from very plain to fancy in the order from: g3, g1/g100 , deluxe, master 300, master 400 (for reasons unknown, the G-100 is the same as the G-1)

Except looking at the serial, it is better to date a Stromberg by looking at its features. Guitars from the late '20s/ '30s have segmented three piece f-holes, laminated bodies with pressed solid tops. Later in the 30s the segmented f-hole was dropped for a single f hole with a very typical shape.

They experimented a lot with all kinds of bracing, usually ladder bracing. These 30s guitars you often see priced at astromical amounts on ebay, because sellers want to cash in on the Stromberg name. They're not particularly good sounding though. These must me the instruments that you refer to as " tend not to move as quickly" ? Which is logical as for half the money you can get a vintage Gibson L-7 or Epiphone Triumph and have a better constructed and sounding guitar.

The very late 30s and early 40s (but still prewar) era is much better. Guitars until ca. 41 /42 usually are constructed of solid carved woods, and most have standard parallel bracing. So kinda on par with the L-7. Useful and decent sounding, not worth to get another mortgage on the house though. I have played 3 or 4 and they were good guitars but only if you can get a good deal, lets say below 5k for the g-series, a bit more for the upscale models.

After the war, Charles Stromberg's son Elmer took over the guitar building. He re-designed all the guitars with better woods, rather thick carved tops, and one single transverse brace running across the soundboard. His idea was (or at least nowadays is interpreted as) to get the power of the parrallel bracing together with the warmth of the x bracing. Post-war Stromberg's up to 1955 usually (but not all) have such single transverse bracing but less than a 100 of these were made (and I am lucky to have one! http://niceguitar.eu/stromberg.html).

Only these later instruments are the guitars that people envision when the talk about Stromberg, as being a competitor to D'Angelico. They have an extremely loud chunky and percussive sound, all of their own, excellent guitars for jazz/swing/rythm play. Of course there are the famous Freddie Green guitars, he had a Deluxe and a Master 300/400. If you go to youtube search for Ranger Doug - he has many acoustic soundclips where you can hear that typical sound very well.

But then again; any post-war Stromberg model will also be the same price as a D'Angelico. Pre-war should be like 2500-3000 for the G3 up to 8000 for the more luxurious models, and then again mostly based on collectability rather than on sound. The post-war models are going for 15-20k for the G3 and way up to 40-50k for the master 400 models. They made only 7 cutaway guitars in total; think in Les Paul Standard Burst kind of money.

[teleman3726]

Thanks, Frank.
Perfect.
I owe you a PP transmission.
Just swamped at the moment.
Chris

[Mark M.]

Gruhn Guitars has one of Freddie Green's Stromberg's for sale: http://www.gruhn.com/home.html

[fws6]

You're welcome ! For the PP send me a PM My hourly rate is very reasonable


Whether you like western swing or not (I do) - this type of clips has the Stromberg signature sound . Make sure you listen with some decent speakers ! On a tiny pc speaker youd likely miss the nice bass and mids.

[fws6]

Gruhn Guitars has one of Freddie Green's Stromberg's for sale: http://www.gruhn.com/home.html

yes but at 85k (!) I doubt if Freddie Green is the type of "celebrity rock star" name that will account for such a price increase. I mean, the man was a genious in the jazz world, but hardly a name that would raise the rediculous Slash/Clapton/Hard Rock Cafe type of collector money. A 'normal' Master 400 model would be in tyhe 40-45 k range already putting it way out of reach for most people

Gruhn BTW also has one of the 7 cutaways for sale, from Ranger Doug's collection. It is a 'mere' 35k but that is because it is a 23-1/2" short scale ; precursor to the Birdland. Had that been 25" would be double...

[Chazmo]

The sound of that Stromberg in the Riders' video is great!

[Patrick2]

I can't even begin to tell you how amazing this sounds in person. Buzzy just kept looking at me and smiling when I was playing it.

http://larkstreetmusic.com/list/pict/elmer.jpg

[fws6]

The sound of that Stromberg in the Riders' video is great!

yeah it is a very typical chunky type of sound. I guess similar to what all the bluegrass players are always saying about their fav mando's , it has got excellent chop

mine is just like that, sound wise

if one would step into buying a Stromberg, try to find a later one, and dont care about the model so much.

[oldane]

The transition from the mediocre laminate guitars to the high quality carved instruments with the one diagonal brace took place in 1939, when Elmer began to build those instruments we normally associate with the name Stromberg. Interestingly, Elmer continued to use laminated woods in the backs and sides now and then - maybe randomly, maybe on demand from touring musicians, who wanted the additional structural strength.

Freddie Greens blonde sample of the Master 400 - the one which is for sale at Gruhns right now - was aquired by Green around X-max/New Year 1939, and replaced an Epiphone Emperor, which he kept for a number of years after that (was photographed with it as late as 1950 at a gig with the Basie Septet). Green is shown with the blonde Stromberg on a picture from a recording session in december 1939 or january 1940 at a time when it must have been brand new. It must be one of the first of the new type of Stromberg guitars. A little later he also got a sunburst Master 300 which was the guitar he was most often seen with until he got the Gretsch Eldorado in 1958. The reason for switching to the Gretsch was the rising prises of the existing Stromberg guitars after Elmer Strombergs death in 1955, and Green began to worry about the rigeurs and risks of taking them on the road. The Gretsch was sponsored along with repair service (though Gretsch almost never saw their endorser) as part of an endorsement deal, so it was a practical and finansially safe solution for Green. However he kept the two Strombergs till his death, and sometimes brought one of them for recording session in NY, when he felt like to "bring my best guitar". His son Alfred kept the Strombergs after that. I figure it's Alfred, who must now be quite old, who has put the blonde one up for sale now. The old Emperor was not in Greens possession when he died, so he likely sold it off at some point after 1950. He only left the two Strombergs and the by then heavily roadworn Gretsch.

[fws6]

Oldane I stand corrected ;-)

You definately also find late 30s and early 40s examples built 'the old fashioned way'. Still from FG's guitar you must be right that the transition was more gradual than the hard dates I described above.

Maybe seeing a transition phase is also a war related thing. Also the Gibson war time era guitars are a mix and match as materials were scarce and likely they started using old materials bodies and necks in 41/42 and only produced new models from 45 and on.

[oldane]

Maybe seeing a transition phase is also a war related thing. Also the Gibson war time era guitars are a mix and match as materials were scarce and likely they started using old materials bodies and necks in 41/42 and only produced new models from 45 and on.

According to Tom Wheeler (or rather George Gruhn who was quoted by Wheeler), Elmer Stromberg, who was quite frugal and made a living but nothing more from his guitar making, often searched out wood for his guitars when buildings were torn down. That old wood used in the buildings was often of high quality and it was well seasoned. He also brought scrap wood from his workshop home as firewood.

[fws6]

here's an italian seller with a Master 400; not a superb demo I guess but you can hear the guitar well. I dont have a clue what he's saying though.

[KingTutsGuitar]

The Unique Guitar Blog: Stromberg Guitars

There is a gentleman by the name of James D Speros who was introduced to me by Darcy Kuronen from the Museum of Fine Arts as an expert in Strombergs. He was writing a book about them, not sure if it is out.

This is my Guitar and a photo of an original Stromberg Advertising Brochure.