Which guitar for Big Band?

[Pukka-J]

I've been invited to sit in with a Big Band (14 assorted horns, piano, bass, drum and vocals). They currently have no guitarist, but they are looking for one. Their repertoire as far as I know consists mainly of Big Band jazz standards, so I suppose it will be mainly Freddie Green style comping and perhaps a single line solo occasionally in more bluesy stuff.

Now I have two questions: Which guitar is best suited for that job? And which amp? I know I will find out myself eventually, but I'd like to start off bringing the right tools...

I own the following guitars: Tele (single coils), Gibson + Epi ES-175 (both humbuckers), Eastman AR605 (carved top, floating pup), Ibanez jsm-100 (John Scofield model).

My Amps are: Henriksen 112, Henriksen 110 (the older 60 Watt version), eighties Roland Cube 60, ZT Lunchbox Acoustic.

I love my 60 Watt 110, but will it be enough? I suppose I could use the XLR out to go through the PA...

Edit: Did I say PETER Green? I meant of course Freddie. Just listened to some old Fleetwood Mac this weekend. Oh Well...

[disco~juice]

You don't need that much volume, only if you are taking improvisations.
I would go for the carved top with the floater and maybe I would use just mic and not amp.

[marcwhy]

I'd say it kinda depends on the gig and the band's volume. I played in a gigging big band like that for several years: at larger venues or outdoor shows, every instrument was mic'd, so my on-stage sound didn't need to be big. At other gigs, when I wasn't mic'd, the band was actually pretty loud, so I'd need some volume to cut through on solos. My 40W tube amp was always plenty loud.

Any guitar would work; if you're concerned about "looks," though, I'd leave the tele home.

[Pukka-J]

Thanks. I don't know this particular band yep, but I expect little soloing and much comping. I suppose if I'm as loud as a trumpet I'll be more than loud enough :-)

I guess I could do that with my 60w Henriksen...or even my acoustic lunchbox!

Soloing might need some more volume, but in my experience with other bands it's more a matter of proper EQ.

[docbop]

When I was playing with big band a lot (more modern charts vs standards) I used my 335 and Super Reverb.

[GodinFan]

I've been invited to sit in with a Big Band (14 assorted horns, piano, bass, drum and vocals). They currently have no guitarist, but they are looking for one. Their repertoire as far as I know consists mainly of Big Band jazz standards, so I suppose it will be mainly Freddie Green style comping and perhaps a single line solo occasionally in more bluesy stuff.

Now I have two questions: Which guitar is best suited for that job? And which amp? I know I will find out myself eventually, but I'd like to start off bringing the right tools...

I own the following guitars: Tele (single coils), Gibson + Epi ES-175 (both humbuckers), Eastman AR605 (carved top, floating pup), Ibanez jsm-100 (John Scofield model).

My Amps are: Henriksen 112, Henriksen 110 (the older 60 Watt version), eighties Roland Cube 60, ZT Lunchbox Acoustic.

I love my 60 Watt 110, but will it be enough? I suppose I could use the XLR out to go through the PA...

Edit: Did I say PETER Green? I meant of course Freddie. Just listened to some old Fleetwood Mac this weekend. Oh Well...

For general big band playing, I'd lean towards using your 175 with any of the amps except the ZT Lunchbox acoustic.

I know from personal experience that an Epi 175 with an old Cube 60 will give you plenty of power for soloing.

If you know the material is going to lean to straight rhythm with few lines, the Eastman may have the edge.

If you know it's a more contemporary type of big band, with more lines and free comping, and not as much four to the bar, I'd go with the Sco or the tele.

Still the same amp choices - the Cube 60 or the Henriksen 112 would be my choices.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Any guitar would work; if you're concerned about "looks," though, I'd leave the tele home.

(Looks for pictures of Ed Bickert with the Boss Brass...)

[GodinFan]

(Looks for pictures of Ed Bickert with the Boss Brass...)

[Bluedawg]

What style of Big Band?

Modern big band? 60s tunes and later

Classic era Swing? 20s, 30s, 40s?

I play in a couple of Big bands ... one is very Goodman oriented ... my Heritage Sweet 16 with the floater is the one the band director prefers ... I like to use my Carr Rambler, but I have a Henriksen and a Roland Cube that work well, too .... I use the Solid State amps for rehearsal or outdoor gigs

I use a clean boost for my occasional solos ...

One of my bands has been moving towards more modern stuff lately .... for those tunes it would be good to have a 335 handy or even a strat ... but I dread the idea of hauling two guitars and even more effects around


My gut instinct is to say the carved top with the floater, but once you get a feel for the tunes and direction of the band you'll have a better feel for what to bring

[Webby]

I do mostly play in Bigbands, and for every Rehearsal I have two guitars with me. An old acoustic archtop set up with high string action, which would make soloing impossible, and an Epiphone Broadway. With these two I get most of the sounds that come up. For gigs I try to take a 3rd guitar (my Gretsch) which I use for moderner and/or distorted sounds. We're doing a pretty mixed repertoire which asks for many different sounds (if you want to do it right), but still about 80% are covered with the Epi and the acoustic.

Paul

[Pukka-J]

Thanks for the suggestions so far guys.

And Webby, what amp(s) do you use? Do you think a 60 watt Henriksen 110 or Orange Cube 60 will cut it?

[lschofield]

Until you do a few gigs I would take one of those semi-hollows. I wouldn't try and mike it. They could have you sitting next to the bass drum or in line of fire of a trombone and the mike might be a problem.

[Woody Sound]

Until you are completely sure about the book, their volume, etc, I would bring both an archtop and an electric (solid or semi). That way you are covered just in case. Next time you will know if you can leave one or the other at home. Incidentally, some years ago I bought a Levy's gig bag that holds both an archtop and an electric at the same time. I love this thing. A little bit cumbersome (fat), but slung over my shoulder, it's sooooo much more convenient than carrying two cases. Two guitars in one bag over my shoulder, amp in one hand, gear bag in the other. One trip in and out!

WS

[Webby]

Thanks for the suggestions so far guys.

And Webby, what amp(s) do you use? Do you think a 60 watt Henriksen 110 or Orange Cube 60 will cut it?

For Rehearsals just whatever is at their practice room, that are a small Fender Amp for the one band, and a Hughes and Kettner Tube Combo for the other one. I only own one Amp, which is a Fender Bassman that I use on every Gig. Depending on the Repertoire I also like to take some pedals with me. I don't think the Amp is that important, especially since I do the rhythm work acoustically.

[MaxT]

Pukka,
I generally use a laminated archtop and a 65-watt solid state amp.
The amp at three-quarters of full volume does the job, usually, just as well
because it loses tonality when cranked any higher. A foot volume pedal
completes the rig. I have a foot preamp just for volume.

External microphones can be a problem, as somebody else mentioned.
They could cause feedback, or pick up one of the horns and you've got an
unbalanced sound. And they often have to be aimed at the guitar from the right direction.
Add to that a little movement by the player, and the whole thing gets very uncertain.

Could use a semi-acoustic archtop, I've done so. Or solid body. But to get closest to the
tonal qualities a carved top is the best for Green-style big band rhythm. I don't use my
carved-top much in public in the big band, but for my money it's the best.

But, don't worry if it's too many dollars and you have to play with something else.
If you know what you're doing, it will sound.

[mangotango]

I used to play with a big band, material ranging from Ellington and Basie via Miller and Kenton to some quite modern stuff. 7 saxes, 3 trumpets, 2 trombones, piano, bass and drums.

Used a Vestax D'Angelico with floater through a Henriksen original 60 watter. For single lines, a Carl Martin clean boost pedal was enough to get me up front. People often said that they felt the guitar rather than heard it; but they sure as heck noticed when I wasn't there.

[Pukka-J]

Great advice everyone! Next Monday there won't be a rehearsal due to Pentecost, but the week after I'll probable take my Epi or Eastman + either my 110 or Cube 60. I think

Thanks!

[MaxT]

Pukka,
Probably you'll want to try out the Eastman, I forgot you had that solid face instrument.
If it feeds back, try the laminated Epi.
One trick i use....A little piece of styrofoam shaped to fit under the tailpiece where the strings hook in.
It's a minimum-baffle thing, seems to work for me, on the hollow Epi's. Else they can wolf out or drone
on the D notes.

[Pukka-J]

Thanks!, I'll try that!

[Pukka-J]

Hi Everyone,

tonight was the first time I played with the big band and thanks to your comments I had plenty confidence in my 60w Henriksen 110. Indeed it was plenty loud! I also took my Epiphone ES-175 with me. They appear to be playing a repertoire of Ellington/Jones/Basie stuff mixed with more modern arrangements, so I figured an 175 would be more versatile than my floater/carved top Eastman.

It was really nice and a good learning experience too: I always thought I was a good reader, but tonight they did a lot of (unknown to me) uptempo songs and apparently I'm not as fast a reader as I though I was
Plenty of fun nonetheless and I brought the sheets back home, so next week I'll be better prepared!

[MaxT]

Hi Pukka,
Glad you had some fun!
Grabbing chords with completely new tunes is usually a challenge.
Don't worry much about pretty chords, stick to the core harmony.

[RyanM]

P90 or CC-pickup laminate hollowbody + tube amp

[Pukka-J]

Yes, I dumbed down every chord I saw to 7, m7, maj7 or dim. It got me through the evening alright, but not exactly with flying colours

@RyanM: tnx for the suggestion, but I have neither a P90 nor a CC nor a tube amp. Why tube, by the way? Any tube? I think my JazzAmp would fare as good if not better than many tube amps, so I guess 'a tube amp' is not specific enough.

I appreciate the input though!

[MaxT]

Pukka,
Sensible way to go with the chords.
By the way, have you come across that booklet by Bucky Pizzarelli,
if memory serves it's called "Power Guitar" and actually deals with big band rhythm.
Thin booklet, published 1980s period. Gives you the core of it.
Another more extensive one by Tom Bruner (also 1980s, includes Latin and Jewish) and a third by
I think Jim (or Jack) Grassel. From the 90s. They all say essentially the same thing
about the chord concept. Grassel's has a demo tape which unfortunately was
careless.
I add or modify the chord concept according to what I'm facing, but it was
what got me going, no doubt about it.

[Pukka-J]

No, I haven't come across that booklet. Is it freely available?
I do have "Swing and Big Band Guitar" by Charlton Johnson.