K&K Definity

**Spook410** · 03-24-2013, 10:29 PM

I'm guessing these are new. Would be a nice solution for acoustic archtops or even something to add to the mix with a magnetic PU if the actual sound turns out anywhere near the professional sound bites on their site. Has anyone actually had a chance to play with one yet?

Definity System | K&K Sound

**Yowech** · 03-24-2013, 11:34 PM

I am big fans of k&k products... Their products mostly gave very natural tone. Hmm, look forward to check it out...

**xuoham** · 03-25-2013, 09:56 AM

That's funny their "Definity played on an Ibanez Artcore":

exactly what i'm doing with my two Artcores, AGS83 and AF105:

K&K Twinspot or Bigshot and Mag P.U on the two inputs of a K&K dual preamp, Mag P.U flat, Trandsucers with the trebles trimmed a LOT (maple body) which the site does not explicitly say (for example, the The Loar mp3: even though the tone has been EQ'ed, one can still hear the nasal characteristic).

Mag 2/3 + Transducer 1/3 for jazz,
Mag 1/3 tone knob rolled off full+ Transducer 2/3 for and almost flat top sound.
And of course everything in between and beyond.

In my opinion, MUCH better and 3D than those piezo Tune-O-Matic, lets you keep a wood bridge, also catches body vibrations, for the best and the worst (finger rubbing the pickguard, sloppy playing, ...).
Really a great add-on to the palette and possible to mimic many different jazz sounds.

And if you know a tech or are willing to do a bit of d.i.y, hide the transducer inside the guitar and use a stereo jack to the dual preamp (has a belt clip too)

"The Definity system is a surprisingly good addition to a semi-acoustic electric ES335 style guitar with Tune-o-matic bridge"

This is also true, i use a K&K bigshot on a AGS83 with Seth Lover P.Us and the results are really, really good !

And sometimes adding a bit of the transducer's sparkle can turn your humbucker into something close to a FAT single coil sound.

Really happy with this approach, that i primarily thought about for being able to hear the percussion on the guitar's body,
"à la Candyrat" ^ ^

I don't actually know this Definity system but i guess it's very close to what you can get with their cheap Bigshot (50 buck-ish) and the Dual preamp (100 buck-ish)

**kamlapati** · 03-25-2013, 12:52 PM

I'll probably try one of these sometime this year. It's nice to have more options.

**nosoyninja** · 07-17-2013, 11:16 PM

I just got one of these from djangobooks. Installed it "permanently" in my archtop. I'll get up some pics soon. Soundwise it's great going into my fishman loudbox artist amp. A bit too much bass because I chose to place it in an area under the bridge out of sight and under the pickguard. But it's nothing I can't deal with on the amp itself. I'm thinking of an lr baggs para acoustic DI to have a bit more control.

K

**Spook410** · 07-18-2013, 12:46 AM

I just got one too.. $60 was too good to pass up. I tried it out on a 16" and really like how it sounds. Thinking I'll do a more permanent install (not all that 'permanent', just route the wire inside guitar) on an 18" acoustic archtop. Not sure this thing would support loud volumes, but at the low volumes I tried it at, I was surprised at how good it sounds. It sounds like an archtop, not like a flat top piezo.

K&K recommends running this through through a preamp with a 1M Ohm input and a phase switch. For now I'm just using my Fishman Aura since it has those two features. Amplifying with a full up PA.

**kamlapati** · 07-18-2013, 12:43 PM

OK, that was all I needed to push me over the edge. Just ordered one.

**3625** · 08-03-2013, 10:57 AM

Any update on how you guys are going with these? I'm particularly interested if the Definity has the same feedback threshold as a bridge piezo - the price seems right. On the high end of the money spectrum I've been looking at the Ischell Inside Box: $375 from Djangobooks. Reason being they sound great, don't feedback easily and I could use it on my different guitars like the Definity.

Mainly, though I just want something that will work for Freddie Green style rhythm - so I'll be avoiding the high E and B strings which tend to be the ones which sound the most unnatural with these acoustic pickups.

Some sound clips would be great (hint, hint)...

**nosoyninja** · 08-03-2013, 11:27 AM

Well... I suppose I could throw something together... Give me a few days.

K

**3625** · 08-06-2013, 01:46 AM

Just found this:

It's a Dupont (gypsy guitar), using the K & K preamp direct into the computer using an apogee audio interface.

I think it sounds great, so I'll probably get a definity in the next month or two based on this demo.

I have to say, I heard all the demo clips on the K & K website and was let's say... underwhelmed... especially if you compare the K & K demo of the Cigano (?, IIRC) compared to this soundcloud clip. Why do manufacturers of gear put out such horrible demo's? they spend all this money on r&d, marketing and manufacturing, yet it always sounds like they grab some guy who works there to bash out something which sounds more bad than good - why not spend a few hundred bucks and actually get someone who can pull a nice tone from a guitar? I'm venting lol, too much bad youtube...

**parker1713** · 08-06-2013, 03:23 AM

Very Interesting PU; I don't want to modify my Bourgeois and Gibson L50 acoustic archtop. I look for the option for amplify other than Mic.

**Spook410** · 08-06-2013, 09:34 AM

Why didn't I buy the Bourgeois 2B's found when I had the chance? Why??

Sounds good Parker. One of the nice things about the Definity is that it's easy to rig up to see if you like the sound. It's kind of a foil so I don't know how many times you could set it up then take it off. I don't think it will sound as good as a mic but with a preamp will be easy to run.

**nosoyninja** · 08-21-2013, 12:48 PM

OK. So here is a test recording I did with the Definity. Signal chain is:

Guitar -> Fishman loudbox amp -> Direct out to Jamman stereo Looper.

My guitar also has a singlecoil floater that I usually combine with the definity for my amplified sound, but in this case it is only the sound from the Definity. I left the amp totally flat for this test, although I usually tweak it a bit in my guitar room to suit my tastes. The tune is one chorus of You Stepped Out of a Dream.

NOTHING in the universe will sound exactly like "the acoustic sound of my archtop but amplified". But I would say this is a pretty good representation and definately usable for the swing rhythm that someone was asking about before. The guitar is a Thorell FV studio model, so it's not really a traditional archtop sound anyway, more of a gypsy selmac tone...

K

**Spook410** · 08-21-2013, 11:45 PM

Wow. That sounds good. While nothing may sound exactly the original acoustic, that sounds more like a microphone than a pickup. I'm actually surprised how good it sounds through such a simple signal chain. Would enjoy hearing what it sounds like with your single coil mixed in. Oh.. and you're a really good player. That was very nice.

**3625** · 08-22-2013, 12:38 AM

Hey nosoyninja - that had a hip vibe, I dug it. That style of playing, incorporating swing and gypsy elements is something I'm into as well, so that was a good representation of the definity as to how I would possibly use it. I appreciate that you displayed the pickup's tone in a very raw direct way to get an idea of what it sounds like without processing or combining it with a mag pickup. I think the pickup by itself for swing rhythm on a gig sounds pretty good - I agree with Spook that it sounds more like a mic than other setups I've heard.

I've been to'ing and fro'ing whether to go down this path as opposed to just making do on the gig with my humbuckers and use mics only when recording. But I think I'll have to give the definity a go based on your demo, and the Dupont soundcloud clip I found. What I'm thinking atm is to get the di/pedal by radial that lets you plug in both your mag pickup and an acoustic pickup. The radial combined with the definity comes in at under $500 all up which is pretty good value in order to get a usable rhythm tone for gigs.

Thanks again

**nosoyninja** · 08-23-2013, 12:16 PM

Thanks for the kind words guys! (You know how it is... All I hear is my mistakes). I agree it's like a mic sound but coming from a soundboard transducer. I'll try and upload a little of the combined sound so we can all compare it.

K

**parker1713** · 08-26-2013, 12:12 PM

Just recieve today; I compare with Mic Shure KSM137 and blend them. Sound quite different from each other.

[url=http://image.ohozaa.com/view2/x2YMuDIGljEYhVct][img]http://image.ohozaa.com/i/524/O0Ouxz.JPG[/img][/url]
[url=http://image.ohozaa.com/view2/x2YMwpC5L5m7xVph][img]http://image.ohozaa.com/i/578/DpjLeC.JPG[/img][/url]

**parker1713** · 08-26-2013, 12:16 PM

Just recive today; I record it compare with using single Shure KSM137

[url=http://image.ohozaa.com/view2/x2YMuDIGljEYhVct][img]http://image.ohozaa.com/i/524/O0Ouxz.JPG[/img][/url]
[url=http://image.ohozaa.com/view2/x2YMwpC5L5m7xVph][img]http://image.ohozaa.com/i/578/DpjLeC.JPG[/img][/url]

**parker1713** · 08-26-2013, 12:22 PM

Just recieve K&K today; test comparing with Shure Mic KSM137

**IanBart** · 11-06-2013, 09:02 AM

Hi, just bought this model after hearing demo's here. Looking to fit permanent, any experiments on preferred placement?

**nosoyninja** · 11-06-2013, 05:20 PM

The instructions that come in the box are a great place to start. I recommend placing it in a position that sounds good to you then leave it there for a few days. Here it in different contexts, rooms, amps, etc. It comes with a good amount of the sticky tape so you can do this at least a couple of times before deciding on a final destination.

I chose the treble side of the bridge (high e string) with the soundboard part facing towards the headstock. This way the pickup is almost entirely hidden by the pickguard. In fact this makes the sound a little boomy and bass heavy for my tastes, but aesthetics won over. I recently got an LR baggs para acoustic di to have more control just in case, though. Here is a pic:

**IanBart** · 11-06-2013, 07:38 PM

Thanks, I think experimenting maybe the key then. Aesthetically does look more appealing but not sure how much control I will have re feedback with the little phase switch that came with it

**honkytone** · 01-26-2014, 01:31 AM

Originally Posted by nosoyninja

I chose the treble side of the bridge (high e string) with the soundboard part facing towards the headstock. This way the pickup is almost entirely hidden by the pickguard. In fact this makes the sound a little boomy and bass heavy for my tastes, but aesthetics won over. I recently got an LR baggs para acoustic di to have more control just in case, though. Here is a pic:

This is definitely the most out-of-the-way location. I'm curious if you first tried it, per the instructions, under the bass side of the bridge and pointing rearward. And if so, can you characterize the difference in sound from the way you have (or had) it in this picture?

I've just tried one myself, installed per the instructions, and like the sound pretty well. Maybe a little bass heavy. I thought it might be less bass heavy under the treble end of the bridge. And I would love to have it more hidden by the pickguard.

**Archtop Guy** · 01-26-2014, 07:04 AM

Hey Parker1713, Loved the videos. On the last one I felt the best blend was the one starting 40 seconds in. That one gave me the most warmth and eliminated the most finger squeak. Loved the choice on music and the playing! Thanks

**nosoyninja** · 01-26-2014, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by honkytone

This is definitely the most out-of-the-way location. I'm curious if you first tried it, per the instructions, under the bass side of the bridge and pointing rearward. And if so, can you characterize the difference in sound from the way you have (or had) it in this picture?

I've just tried one myself, installed per the instructions, and like the sound pretty well. Maybe a little bass heavy. I thought it might be less bass heavy under the treble end of the bridge. And I would love to have it more hidden by the pickguard.

I tried the recommended placement first. It certainly sounded a little less "boomy" and prone to feedback. But not incredibly better than on the bass side. I'd recommend trying it both ways and recordjng it to make a choice. The sticky tape should survive at least a couple of placements.

As an aside, the extra boominess was nothing I couldn't fix easily at the amp. The addition of an lr baggs para driver made it even easier to control.

K