Epiphone ES-175

**kempini** · 12-10-2008, 12:47 PM

Does anyone use the Epiphone 175 guitar. I currently use a Gibson ES-135 but was wondering if the cheaper Epiphone guitar would still give an authentic '175' tone?

**derek** · 12-10-2008, 03:15 PM

No, it does not. It is a brighter guitar, though the one I played appeared to be pretty well made. I would put it in the Ibanez Artcore range as far as tone and playability. A good guitars, but brighter to my ears than a 175. YMMV

**Little Jay** · 12-11-2008, 08:53 AM

I am kind of a freak, obsessed with cheap guitars, so here it goes:

I partially agree with Derek. The Epi is *a little* brighter maybe, but there's a lot of variation in tone and quality in 'real' ES175s also. I've played a '70ies model that definately didn't sound and play better then the Epiphone. I've also played a '68 that was leagues ahead of the Epi. Of course I've also played Epi's models, both the 175 and the Zephyr Regent, which is basically the one-pickup version of the 175.

I think the Epiphone definately captures a lot of 175-feel, mainly I think because it also has a mahagony-neck like the original. The Zephyr Regent does an even better job I think!

What it is exactly that makes the Epi a little brighter then the original is hard to say... lesser quality of woods maybe? But also laminated maple for the body like the original... Thinner souding pickups? Cheaper electronics and hardware? A combination of it all most likely. I couldn't tell if putting Gibson pickups and better hardware and electronics on the Epi would make it sound even more like a Gibson, no experience with that.

So in all fairness: compared to a current production Gibson ES175 the Epi just lacks a touch of class and quality that the Gibson has, but it definately captures the feel and sound of it.

As always: to get a little more quality, the price rises exponentially!

This is all just my opinion, but based on experience with both instruments!

**pierre richard** · 12-11-2008, 09:54 AM

I bought a 165 two years ago...played it three months and sold it....piece of &^%^$...maybe I got a bad one ....quality of workmanship was out the door on that one...sound was all gibson...oh another thing...no pickguard !!!..contacted Gibson and they said ship it to the factory and we will "custom fit" one for it...I laughed at him and said...well you know...I sold it the next day...cheap just to get rid of it..$1600....paid $2100....never again....vintage or nothing...but I presently play a 1977 Ibanez 2355 (175 copy)....nothing more to say...quality sound feel and all...I would buy another...time on the instrument...

**Little Jay** · 12-11-2008, 10:27 AM

Pierre Richard has the smart deal I think; I mentioned it in another post already, but the Japanese Es-175 copies from the 70ies are pretty available and offer a lot of tone and playability for the money!

**pierre richard** · 12-11-2008, 10:44 AM

thank you little jay...through my Polytone Mini Brute I get the sound I want..plus strings and gauge of them...pick thickness...my right hand...all is well...time on the instrument....pierre...

**derek** · 12-11-2008, 12:24 PM

I bought a new ES175 about 3 years ago, and it had a buzz I couldn't figure out. Had the frets leveled and polished, that didn't do it. Took it to the best tech I know and he literally took it apart trying to figure it out. Best he could figure, it was in the bracing. Sent it back to Gibson, 4 months later they sent me another one. I immediately ebay'd it and bought a 1971 ES175 from Jody Fisher. What a gem. I had a 1999 Tal Farlow that was a wonderful guitar also.

Jod ordered a custom Wes Montgomery L-5 about 4-5 years ago. Very expensive guitar. When he got it, it had several small issues. After sending it back 3-4x's, he finally just sold it. Gibson's QC these days is very hit and miss.

**hot ford coupe** · 12-11-2008, 01:28 PM

That's a dang shame about the quality. Looks like they may be slipping again.

**slmsloslider** · 12-11-2008, 05:20 PM

I was at Sam Ash and played an Eddie Duram 175 aisian copy.List 1200 but they are disscontinuing it.,they wanted 400 bucks.Aside from the fact that it was gold I really liked the feel and the quality for that price.I played it through a Princeton Reverb reissue and really liked the sound.I have a set of pat decall hummers and I might pick one up and slap the hummers on it

**hurricanebob** · 03-19-2009, 12:17 AM

Keeping in mind that all of this is utterly subjective:

*you get what you pay for. True for most things, including guitars. I asked a shopowner one time about one of the Gibson knockoffs, and his comment was, all sizzle and no steak. I've never liked any of the inexpensive amplified guitars that I've played. Not one.

*interestingly, this does not seem to apply to acoustics....there are some fine, v. inexpensive acoustic guitars out there that are quite serviceable.

*Eastman and Heritage both make hollow bodied (as well as semi-hollows) for lots less than Gibson, and both are interesting. Especially used, it's possible to get them for around $1,00, maybe a little more.

Bob

**Baviaan** · 03-19-2009, 04:24 AM

I tried an Epi Es 175 once in a shop, only acoustically. It sounded and felt a bit cheap. Cheaper then the Ibanez Artcore AK 85 I owned for a while. The Ibanez missed it as well though. Neck was too thin I guess. It had dead notes.

Now for some time I play a Crafter feg 700, an older one, still with f-shaped f-holes, which sounds pretty good, is playable and looks really cool.

Older Ibanez ES 175 copies I never tried, but they are so hyped that the prices on the second hand market approach Gibson's

**derek** · 03-19-2009, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by Baviaan

I tried an Epi Es 175 once in a shop, only acoustically. It sounded and felt a bit cheap. Cheaper then the Ibanez Artcore AK 85 I owned for a while. The Ibanez missed it as well though. Neck was too thin I guess. It had dead notes.

Now for some time I play a Crafter feg 700, an older one, still with f-shaped f-holes, which sounds pretty good, is playable and looks really cool.

Older Ibanez ES 175 copies I never tried, but they are so hyped that the prices on the second hand market approach Gibson's

I am not sure I would judge a laminated archtop by its acoustic tone, since if you play out, you will always be plugged in. And I am not sure anyone will argue that the Epi or Ibanez Artcore models rival a decent 175 However, when the 175 retails for around $3k, and the others are under $500, is the 175 really $2500 better?

I also buy into the "you get what you pay for" idea most of the time, but I can say that $500 will buy you a heck of a lot of guitar these days, and I am very impressed by most guitars coming out of Asia.

**Bill_J** · 03-19-2009, 11:27 AM

I have avoided new Gibsons like the plague for years. As has been mentioned, their QC is in the toilette. Not to mention, that the workmanship generally NEEDS to be quality controlled. However, I was recently looking for a semi-hollow to set up for playing jazz and stumbled on a used ES137. They replaced the discontinued ES135 around 2002. They have the older humbuckers in them (which gives them a warmer tone) and a hardwood center block which cuts down on feedback. Plus, they are a budget Gibson. I got mine for $1200. It is the first 'new' Gibson that I have played in almost 20 years that I liked.

I had to do a setup, and I replaced the metal bridge saddles with GraphTech, but now, it plays like a dream.

It is the guitar in my signature picture.

Bill

**ner1971** · 03-19-2009, 02:52 PM

I owned/played one for about 6 months. I put reissue Gibson '57 Classic PAF humbuckers on it, a medium set of flatwounds, played it through a tube amp and felt it was getting a fairly serviceable ES-175 tone. The stock pickups are lousy. Overall the guitar felt a little cheap and second-rate to me, but then again it was less than $500 new. Ultimately, I decided I did not like the neck profile and sold it.

But, to answer the original question: yes, I believe you can get a fairly authentic Gibson ES-175 tone with the Epi model (with a little work). The pick-ups are a big factor and there are a lot of options for replacements whether you like PAFs or P-90s.

**fauves** · 03-20-2009, 02:06 AM

I like the zephyr regent a lot more than the epi 175, I think there is less on the zephyr to go wrong or rattle. Pickup AND wiring/ pots together make a huge difference.I have played a few very nice Japan copies also, but like stated earlier I dont want to spend nearly as much as a original as on a copy.

I recently purchased a 1958 guild ce 100 single p/u thats a fantastic guitar. I really dig the single p-90 versions in either . But the Epi is a good buy if you like to fool with different pickups,(I do) who wants to swap electronics in a 3K guitar? also its a good back up. I live in the northeast and if its 10 below and I have a gig the expensive stuff stays home. I just saw a band in fullerton,CA a few months ago and the gtr player had a dead stock epi that sounded fantastic!

**kempini** · 03-20-2009, 08:12 AM

Thanks for all your comments, very interesting! Well I bought an Epi 175 back in January and immediately restrung it etc with flatwound 12s. It seems very well made but I have to admit it is not as good as my Gibson 135.

It may be worth adding better pickups, but as ner1971 said, the neck profile doesn't feel quite right! So I now have to decide whether to sell it or use it as a guitar to experiment on!!!

**fast1** · 03-20-2009, 11:11 PM

nope it does not, stick to your gibson

**rtleslie** · 03-22-2009, 08:34 PM

I owned an Ibanez FA100 which was the equivlante of a Gibson 175. I had it for 30 yrs and it was as close as you could get for the price. I did how ever haqve to change the bridge,it broke and I replaced it with a tune-o-matic which changed the sound but it still played great. If you can find one before they were sued by Gibson you'll have a gem.

**RAQ** · 03-23-2009, 04:20 AM

I don't really disagree with anything that has been said here, but just want to add that I think it's a little unfair on the Epi 175 to directly compare it with the Gibson original. GAK currently list the Epi at £349 and the Gibson at £2449, so it's just unrealistic to expect to get the Gibson instrument for the Epiphone price; I don't see that as a fault of the Epiphone version - just the price you have to pay for not paying the price of a Gibson (if you see what I mean). I wouldn't necessarily deny either that there are other guitars that get closer to the 175 sound than the Epiphone; only that, as I beginner wanting to learn jazz guitar, you need to either already know what type of guitar you want to play and, if a 175-style, you need to already have the experience to pick even a good Gibson - or, for a modest outlay, you can try out the 175-style for a fraction of the cost with an Epiphone. You can probably tell that I've got the Epi and, with a pup upgrade, it's a way of discovering if I want to try the Gibson later - when I'm a better player, and richer.

RAQ

**derek** · 03-23-2009, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by RAQ

I don't really disagree with anything that has been said here, but just want to add that I think it's a little unfair on the Epi 175 to directly compare it with the Gibson original. GAK currently list the Epi at £349 and the Gibson at £2449, so it's just unrealistic to expect to get the Gibson instrument for the Epiphone price; I don't see that as a fault of the Epiphone version - just the price you have to pay for not paying the price of a Gibson (if you see what I mean). I wouldn't necessarily deny either that there are other guitars that get closer to the 175 sound than the Epiphone; only that, as I beginner wanting to learn jazz guitar, you need to either already know what type of guitar you want to play and, if a 175-style, you need to already have the experience to pick even a good Gibson - or, for a modest outlay, you can try out the 175-style for a fraction of the cost with an Epiphone. You can probably tell that I've got the Epi and, with a pup upgrade, it's a way of discovering if I want to try the Gibson later - when I'm a better player, and richer.

RAQ

You certainly echo what I said above. The reality is, between the new Ibanez Artcore, a few offerings from Epi, and others, there is a glut of guitars out there at incredibly low prices that are very playable, and sound good enough.

They are better than student level instruments imo (though at student level $), and can be gigged/recorded with good results. They are easily upgraded for very little $ to get even better sound out of them. 20 years ago or more, you really couldn't say this, and would probably be advised to save your money for a Gibson, but today?

**wizard3739** · 03-23-2009, 03:05 PM

I totally agree with the thought process here! I have had several Gibsons and played many more. Even the vintage Gibsons were not cosistently good or bad! You must try out any guitar (Gibson or Ibanez or?) to see if it gives you what you want for your music. I bought a 1975 Johnny Smith Gibson in 1976 but, I tried many other Johnny Smith Gibson guitars before I settled for the one I bought. One of them had a twisted neck, one had a hump where the the neck joined the body and most of them needed a professional setup to be truly useable. I had a similar experience when I bought a Joe Pass Epi in 1992. They needed to be played by me to find the tone and playability I wanted.

wiz

**showbiz** · 03-25-2009, 06:02 AM

Hi Guys, Those who know me know how many guitars I have and if I was a great guitarist (which I am not) I would like to be one of those great guitarists who could play a Epi Zephyr Regent or a Gibson Herb Ellis (165) which I own, without complaning about either one or the other, compromising my playing.

**Mike B** · 03-25-2009, 12:33 PM

The best 175 copy I've played by a long way in terms of tone, build quality and playability (is that a word?) was a Tokai FA 70. Cost around £400 - sorry don't know what that is in $....but I don't think they sell them in the US.

**gravyTrain** · 03-27-2009, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by Mike B

The best 175 copy I've played by a long way in terms of tone, build quality and playability (is that a word?) was a Tokai FA 70. Cost around £400 - sorry don't know what that is in $....but I don't think they sell them in the US.

The only I could find was this:
FA235

According to exchange calculator, ¥246,750 is about $2500 US dollars! Ouch... that's about the same price as a REAL Gibson. Looks like a pretty accurate copy though. Look at the finger-rest attachment etc.

**Mike B** · 03-30-2009, 06:26 AM

Originally Posted by gravyTrain

The only I could find was this:
FA235

According to exchange calculator, ¥246,750 is about $2500 US dollars! Ouch... that's about the same price as a REAL Gibson. Looks like a pretty accurate copy though. Look at the finger-rest attachment etc.

Try here works out about $800 USD