The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    I can't comment specifically on the durability of the nitro used by Eastman but over the years I've come to avoid nitro in general. Any finish that in 2012 can be easily damaged by temperature change, guitar stands, and even the perspiration of the human body is completely obsolete in my opinion. I won't even get into the environmental issues of using nitro but in the USA it has already been banned in several states. In the acoustic world many of the most respected manufactures went to some form of Poly a long time ago and I say bravo.

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  3. #27

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    PFC, Thank you for your efforts in furthering Eastmans quality. I have owned two Eastmans,one of the first John Pisanos' in natural ( aged so well it looked 20 years old when it was only six) It may even have had one of your early varnish bases. As I remember hearing that you did that in the begining. It was a wonderful piece as was my 803, also natural. No problems with the finishes on either one. I vote you stick with what you're doing. But how about those rising price tags?....

  4. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by PTChristopher
    >>> We are currently in the process of testing new paint suppliers.

    So you will be going to Cardinal?

    Is this a sort of reasonable acceptance that some careful use of silicone and so-called "plasticizers" can be a good thing so long as it is not overdone to goop-i-ness?

    Sounds like a good plan to me.

    Chris
    I would like to, but it is down to cost analysis and how well it functions with our new automated electrostatic paint system.

  5. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by PTChristopher
    To also chime in:

    I have one 2006 805CE and the finish is exactly like "they used to be". Thin, hard, non-goopy, lacquer. Exactly as described and intended by Eastman.

    I am a little disappointed about the "Re-ranch" cans being used though. I mean come-on, a 35 dollar HVLP gun from Lowes and some Cardinal is more in keeping with fine repairs from the manufacturer?

    Chris
    I can paint a guitar with a reranch can, and you would never know the difference i assure you.

    The cans are actually easier to use than a gun in some cases because there is no set up time, they are very easy to control, and they apply the finish more slowly, so you can be more detailed. Also, the paint in those cans is very very good quality.

    Also, to set up a booth would cost thousands for us. Its not as simple as getting a gun and an air compressor, which we have. It is the need to build a booth, have proper ventilation, and comply with all of the state laws in California, where paint is a big issue for manufacturers!

    Also, a nice Iwata gun is around $400 plus all the accessories you need to buy. You usually end up spending 10K on a nice booth with all the fixins!

  6. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Hammertone
    Yeah, I was joking above, for those not brought up on American TV commercials. A really thin poly finish is a wonderful thing, but not enough manufacturers maintain that level of quality control - Suhr is a good example of a larger company that applies impeccable, thin poly finishes.

    The only real issue with poly is that it is a colossal PIA to repair. It is also a real PIA to remove, unless it is very thinly applied. OTOH it is tough as nails.
    Nitro is A-OK by me, as is French Polish.
    My favorite guitar is a Suhr, which i play every day. I really look up to John quite a bit, and think he makes superb instruments. The best way to avoid finish repairs is to make a finish like John does. Hard as nails, thin as a page from the bible, and looks to kill!

  7. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by SOR
    I can't comment specifically on the durability of the nitro used by Eastman but over the years I've come to avoid nitro in general. Any finish that in 2012 can be easily damaged by temperature change, guitar stands, and even the perspiration of the human body is completely obsolete in my opinion. I won't even get into the environmental issues of using nitro but in the USA it has already been banned in several states. In the acoustic world many of the most respected manufactures went to some form of Poly a long time ago and I say bravo.
    I hear ya!

    I actually think the best solution is the one that Collings has come up with.

    They do a satin Poly Neck finish, and then the bodies are finished with a poly base coat and a nitro top coat so you get the best of both worlds.

    They are actually what turned us on to using Cardinal in the first place. Great mentors of ours.

  8. #32

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    The finish on the Eastman Guitar that you heard came off with tape sounds like it may have been the Antique Varnish (French Polish) same finish used on world class Violin’s, Cello’s, upright Basses, etc.

    I own a Single Cut Solid Body with this finish and it’s fantastic, the Wood is protected and it feels like a well played Vintage instrument and sounds fantastic since the Wood isn’t smothered with plasticized finish. Yes it will wear but that’s the beauty of it just like Vintage Nitrocellulose wears and looks so awesome.

    Passing on one of these fine Guitars because it won’t look like brand new forever is in my opinion a real mistake. I passed on them because they weren’t American made for years I have 19 Electrics Gibson LP’s, Fender Strat’s & Tele’s, Music Man, G&L’s and finally played an Eastman (I now own 3) and I’m sorry to say this but I prefer them over my Gibsons they are fine Guitars and very well crafted instruments.

  9. #33

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    Eastman finishes are just very brittle and flake off very easily. Not sure why. But it's definitely not the repairman's fault. And poly can be extremely thin. Jim Soloway has stated several times that a thin poly finish is not only more protective but allows the wood to vibrate more and he should know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
    Piping in with my 2 cents even though I have no experience with Eastman, yes, it is true that the Eastman finish is delicate. BUT...contrast that with thick indestructible poly-whatever plastic or even modern nitro with too much plasticisers in it thickly applied and which would you rather have?

    I feel that the fault does not lie with Eastman but with repairmen who do not understand the thin finish that Eastman uses and consequently blame Eastman for damage caused. I am no expert (but play one on stage). A good beeswaxing of the Eastman and less adhesive tape (run it against your skin first) will resolve most problems.

    It is a case of using the right approach and right tools for the job at hand. Not the fault of Eastman; more the case of unmatched expectation.

    I know I would rather have a thinly applied finish than a thick plastic shell.

  10. #34

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    My AR503CE, purchased within the last year, has showed no signs of finish problems. I took the electronics out to upgrade the shielded cabling and had blue painter’s tape on the top to mark the bridge position. No issues on tape removal or reassembly. I like that the finish is thin - my guitar has a lovely acoustic tone.

  11. #35

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    The OP is from 2012, Eastman has come a good ways on their finishes. I own two ELrey 4's and there are no finish problems with either guitar.

  12. #36

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    Earlier Eastmans up u til maybe 3 or 4 years ago or so, had problems with their finishes? I believe they addressed this since then and have addressed the problem.

    But I owned several Eastmans including an El Rey 2,JP 880, and a 810CE which all had very brittle finish which gave me problems. I will say the company just keeps improving their instruments all the time. I do think they are starting to really come in to their own!

  13. #37

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    I purchased an AR810CE in 2007. The finish still looks great. I’m more careful with it than my other guitars though. It’s a lightly built guitar with a light finish, but it sings.

  14. #38

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    I don't have any experience with new ones but I know an endorser for eastman who has 2 relatively new eastmans and the finish has flaked off on both of them.

    However, that wouldn't stop me from buying one. I now think they are among the best factory guitars out there along with seventy seven. I like the seventy sevens better but I wouldn't hesitate buy an eastman.

  15. #39

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    Since my original post I acquired a T-486 and a T165MX, I did not let any comments on finish stop me from getting them.

    The 486 is superb in every way, the MX is an older model and does have some finish issues it its many positive features make them easily overlooked. The Gibson ES-275 that I briefly owned OTOH had stupid flaws right out of the factory that at 4x the cost of the Eastman I returned it.


    Eastman Finish Issue?-eastman_semi_pair1-jpg Eastman Finish Issue?-gibsones275_eastman_t165mx2s-jpg

  16. #40

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    I'm the second (at least) owner of an Eastman T146 made in 2009 AFAICT, and it has no finish issues other than some dings. The finish is thin and relatively fragile, like many nitro finishes without a heavy dose of plasticizers. Impacts will mar the finish, so I try to avoid those. But I have no issues with the finish, it's about what i think a finish should be.

  17. #41

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    i'm going to disagree with this and it's a common fallacy. I've owned numerous old gibsons made prior to 1966 (probably close to 20). They didn't use plasticizers back then. I practiced on them 4 hours a day, gigged on them regularly, etc. Not a single one. NOT ONE - had the issues that are very common for eastman. I would say it's more likely that whatever finish eastman uses has more plasticizers in it than standard nitro finishes. I've never had a nitro finish on any old gibson flake off in the same way that eastman finishes flake off.

    Now, again - I love the eastman guitars and I don't care that the finishes are fragile but let's at least be honest here.

  18. #42

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    I don't have broad experience with Eastmans, but the one I have has no finish issues. Perhaps others do, but I've never seen it.

  19. #43

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    An enjoyable old thread.

    I have three Eastman acoustics (one given to my son) all found on my local Craigslist that punch way above their price point.

  20. #44

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    I acquired a used ER-3, an early model a couple of years ago, and one of the first things I noticed when it arrived was the state of the finish. It was indeed cracked and flaking off on various parts of the guitar.

    Then last year I had the misfortune to trip over the guitar lead while the ER-3 was on its stand, and both went crashing to the floor, resulting in a nasty gash on the back of the neck and damage to the finish on the top. But I console myself by saying that it could have been worse - far worse. The headstock may have easily snapped off for example.

    Nonetheless due to the fact that there are very few luthiers in this part of Spain, and those I approached were not interested in taking on a partial refinish, I am presently refinishing the guitar myself.
    I found the Eastman distributor in Holland to be very helpful and courteous, although he wasn't able to help me with regard to having the guitar refinished.

    But I digress. The point is that there is little doubt that the first batch of El Reys have been noted to have a very fragile finish, and my particular model is a case in point. My ER-3 came fitted with a custom ebony scratch plate, and the cracked finish was hidden beneath it for the most part. It looked really ugly.

    But not all of the guitar seems to have the same finish. In fact only the maple top had this extremely thin flaky finish. The mahogany neck, back and sides have a much more resilient and beautiful, professional looking finish.

    Since I don't intend redoing the original sunburst finish on the maple top, stain matching is not going to be an issue, but matching the damaged mahogany on the back and sides of the neck is proving a real nightmare! I could use some advice if anyone feels they'd like to help