Amp preferences for laminate archtops

**shawntp** · 12-06-2012, 04:01 PM

Greetings folks, I am new to the forum. I have played blues/rock/fusion for 20 years and just started taking Jazz lessons this year. I purchased my first archtop build (a Collings Eastside LC laminate construction) with a single neck humbucker. I was playing through an AER acoustic amp I had which was nice but not voiced correctly.

I am currently on the search for an amp to use for Jazz/Blues in solo or trio form with a bass/drum player. I already play blues and fingerstyle so I am working on crossing over my playing into jazz but cant quite figure out what amps work best with laminate guitars like this. I should say the Collings is very acoustic and articulate.

I picked up a Two-Rock studio Pro 22 (22 watts / 6v6 tubes) having owned a two-rock amp in the past and its great but perhaps has too much breakup. I am thinking of upgrading to the 35 watt with 6L6 tubes that has more headroom but at this point I decided to slow down my searching and come here for advice. I have $2300 in the Two-Rock SP22 and would put another $400 in to upgrade so my budget is pretty flexible.

I read so many like the Henriksen that I am thinking maybe I am spending way too much and carrying all my electric guitar baggage with me.

Any tips or preferences anyone can share? My Jazz teacher swears by solid state but I know lots of people like tube warmth (including me). I am really inexpersienced with Jazz guitar amplification and how it works with laminate guitars (vs a true carved archtop).

**Tom Karol** · 12-06-2012, 04:58 PM

Henriksen, JazzKat, Quilter, Mambo - all modern solid-state amps favored for Jazz. I use a Henriksen for Jazz with hollow and semi-hollow laminated archtops with wonderful (to me, anyway) results. I still love playing through good tube amps, but I no longer love hauling them around. Oh, and check out Rivera's Jazz Suprema if you want to stick with tubes.

**Bill C** · 12-06-2012, 05:03 PM

For solid state, and with your budget, you might consider an Evans amp.

**mr. beaumont** · 12-06-2012, 05:15 PM

I've found I use different amps for different purposes. The same amp I use for jazz probably wouldn't get anybody the "blues" tone they want.

Personally, I'm done with tube amps...I still use my old princeton at home, but it's not leaving the house.

**Jonathan0996** · 12-06-2012, 06:47 PM

Rivera makes a 50 watt tube amp specifically for jazz that looks intriguing, but I haven't tried it. Check it out at www.soundpure.com

**shawntp** · 12-06-2012, 07:12 PM

Thanks for the tips guys. I will have to see if there are any regional dealers in Indy for any of these SS amps. I've never played a "jazz" intended SS build but as I play this $2300 clean blackface Two-Rock combo I realize this is not the tone I am going for.

It breaks up at high volume or when hit hard. I suppose any tube clean amp breaks at some point and archtops seem to be more demanding on the amp than say a tele.

**coolvinny** · 12-06-2012, 07:36 PM

Actually I would think that a solid body causes break up earlier than a hollow-body, since a solid body has more sustain which could result in more "double stop-ish" sounds that are crunchy. Have you tried changing your tubes to a different type (e.g. from 12AX7 to 12AY7)? lower output tubes can result in cleaner tones, though at the expense of total volume. However for most jazz guitar applications you don't need tons of volume anyway and if your tube amp is quite powerful, that could at least be a temporary fix for you.

Laminates with pure acoustic amps aren't a great match, but a lot of it has to do with your taste. Personally I like the amp to add some colour and edge to the sound. I certainly had fun recently plugging my laminate into a Fender Princeton and Twin Reverb, but for me they are too heavy to be practical out of the house.

**marcwhy** · 12-06-2012, 08:32 PM

I'm a tube guy, too, and I like Jack Anderson -- call him and tell him what you're looking for, and he'll make you a nice amp!
Anderson Amps

**pingu** · 12-06-2012, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by shawntp

Thanks for the tips guys. I will have to see if there are any regional dealers in Indy for any of these SS amps. I've never played a "jazz" intended SS build but as I play this $2300 clean blackface Two-Rock combo I realize this is not the tone I am going for.

It breaks up at high volume or when hit hard. I suppose any tube clean amp breaks at some point and archtops seem to be more demanding on the amp than say a tele.

If you're playing Blues and Jazz or a lot of bluesy-Jazz
You probably got the right type of amp already
Its like a fender Delux yeah ?

if you need more clean headroom you could put
a more efficient speaker in there
and save some dough

(Try the fat strings thing too !)

**shawntp** · 12-07-2012, 08:25 AM

I have been lurking the forum reading amp threads and come to the realization that I probably just want two amps. A small blackface combo (ala Princeton Reverb) AND a SS jazz amp. I have funds enough to purchase both I suppose. I see the Henriksen offers 7 day return so I might give that a try. Also my AER Compact 60 is collecting dust since I started playing jazz (being its my acoustic amp) so I might unload it and see if I cant get the Henriksen + external Tweeter attachment and have it double if I ever need to play acoustic. Then I have a tube amp and a SS "Jazz" amp.\

EDIT:
Ok, I have ordered Henriksen 110 ER (switchable tweeter) to try out with the in home audition since they had free shipping. I only got the one with the tweeter to see if it could be passable for acoustic guitar and potentially replace my AER. Jazz tone eludes me so much. I don't know how to pinpoint the tones I like/dislike or really understand Jazz tone yet (Player/guitar/pickups/construction/electroncs/amp/etc). For rock/blues I could literally listen to a CD and tell them guitar/amp/overdrive pedal to use to get that tone but when I listen to Jazz I am clueless. I know I like the way my AER Compact 60 feels more than my tube amp but its colored too much (and sounds small and boxy with an archtop as it was designed for acoustic guitar) so I think the Henriksen is the logical next choice.

**kamlapati** · 12-07-2012, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by shawntp

I have been lurking the forum reading amp threads and come to the realization that I probably just want two amps. A small blackface combo (ala Princeton Reverb) AND a SS jazz amp.

Fully agree. My music room currently holds my Deluxe Reverb and my Polytone Mini-Brute. Everything else is in the garage and on the market.

IMO you can get great jazz tones with a Blackface Fender. Johnny Smith once said that all Fender amps have too much bass, and that the first thing he did was set the bass to zero. When I first read that I was a little surprised, but as soon as I tried it I was with him 100%. Just remember, use your ears, not your eyes, and not what some guy says on the internet, to adjust the knobs on your amp!

**rpguitar** · 12-07-2012, 06:49 PM

Also agree 100%. My two are a Princeton Reverb (12" speaker) and a Clarus 2R. It's like Cabernet and Chardonnay. Sometimes one hits the spot and sometimes the other.

**monkmiles** · 12-07-2012, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by rpguitar

Also agree 100%. My two are a Princeton Reverb (12" speaker) and a Clarus 2R. It's like Cabernet and Chardonnay. Sometimes one hits the spot and sometimes the other.

Well said. I have a Princeton Reverb and a Clarus 1. Also a Bandmaster combo. Nice contrast between them.

**Jazz_175** · 12-08-2012, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by shawntp

Greetings folks, I am new to the forum. I have played blues/rock/fusion for 20 years and just started taking Jazz lessons this year. I purchased my first archtop build (a Collings Eastside LC laminate construction) with a single neck humbucker. I was playing through an AER acoustic amp I had which was nice but not voiced correctly.

I am currently on the search for an amp to use for Jazz/Blues in solo or trio form with a bass/drum player. I already play blues and fingerstyle so I am working on crossing over my playing into jazz but cant quite figure out what amps work best with laminate guitars like this. I should say the Collings is very acoustic and articulate.

I picked up a Two-Rock studio Pro 22 (22 watts / 6v6 tubes) having owned a two-rock amp in the past and its great but perhaps has too much breakup. I am thinking of upgrading to the 35 watt with 6L6 tubes that has more headroom but at this point I decided to slow down my searching and come here for advice. I have $2300 in the Two-Rock SP22 and would put another $400 in to upgrade so my budget is pretty flexible.

I read so many like the Henriksen that I am thinking maybe I am spending way too much and carrying all my electric guitar baggage with me.

Any tips or preferences anyone can share? My Jazz teacher swears by solid state but I know lots of people like tube warmth (including me). I am really inexpersienced with Jazz guitar amplification and how it works with laminate guitars (vs a true carved archtop).

First of all congratulations for the guitar. I guess it's a great guitar.
(Off Topic: I would be interested in a comparison with the Sadowsky laminate archtops)
I don't think there is a definitive answer. It very much depends on personal taste.
I own a tube amp (deluxe reverb) and non tube amp (Henriksen).
I prefer the tube amp with all my guitars (175, 335, Collings I35 and Tele)
I've also got a true carved archtop, spruce top with floating pickup and that's the only guitar that I think sounds better plugged into the Henriksen.

**shawntp** · 12-12-2012, 10:00 PM

I got the Henricksen yesterday. I loved it and was getting great tone from it in the ~1 hour of mileage I've put on it. Then tonight I plugged in again and after about 2 minutes I heard a pffffft sound and the volume dropped out. I smelled a burning odor and shut the amp off immediately.

I bought it direct so I am assuming this will be a no-fuss return or exchange. I have lots of play money at the moment and I am wondering if I shouldn't bail on Henricksen and try an Evans.

**jazzman1021** · 12-12-2012, 11:49 PM

Ihave owned several SS amps and they all have gone pfffftttt, with the smell. What part of the country do you live in? The reason I ask is that I now live in a rural area where electric delivery is spotty at best; brown outs and surges all the time. I invested $50 in a power conditioner and the problem. at least for my amp has not resurfaced. I must add that I am through with SS amps and back to tubes. Just about any tube amp can get a good sound by switching some compatible, lower gain tubes in the preamp.{Unless your talking about the super duper gain. gain and more gain metal amps). If you do go the tube route, the techs at AmplifiedParts.com are very knowlegable and helpful, and the will chat online with you. They gave me great advice. Good luck

JM

**shawntp** · 12-12-2012, 11:54 PM

I live in the middle of downtown Indianapolis in a 7 year old midrise, I've never had any electrical issues.

Given that this amp is 24 hours old I am expecting that Henricksen will have some options for me it he morning.

**shawntp** · 12-13-2012, 01:17 AM

Update...

Peter Henriksen has already reached out to me personally within just a few hours of reporting the issue with apologies for whatever the anomaly ends up being and he indicating that they would send me a replacement amp tomorrow (plus a return postage label for the damaged unit). I think that's pretty great and personal service so I am definitely going to stick with the JazzAmp.

I am going to have to sleep on the idea of the Extended Range (ER) though. I might downgrade since I didn't find any settings with my rig where the tweeter sounded useful. Maybe see if they would put the credit towards the carry case or something.

I suppose people playing with the tweeters have acoustics or big carved top/floating pickups.

**Tom Karol** · 12-13-2012, 10:00 AM

Peter is a stand-up guy; I'm not at all surprised he stepped up to the plate so quickly. I've never heard of a Henriksen breaking down, but it can happen to anything I guess.

I have 2 Henriksens - a JazzAmp112 which I've had for 3+ years, and a JazzAmp110 which I bought used a few months ago. When I bought the 112 I also bought the outboard version of the tweeter. I found it to be very useful for amplified acoustics or A/E hybrids but irrelevant with normal electric guitars with magnetic pickups. I sold it. I swapped the Beta 10A speaker in the 110 for a Ragin Cajun which effectively transformed it from a JazzAmp110 into a BluesAmp110; I like it better - even for Jazz.

So here's my recommendation since you have a do-over:
Strictly for Jazz, the 112 with the stock Beta12A is my preference: it's louder (if necessary), the bottom end is deeper and clearer, and it has more 3-dimensionality. If you want the 10-inch model, consider a BluesAmp110: the Ragin Cajun is more efficient, has a tighter though less prominent bottom end, and a more presence - making it more versatile if you play a variety of styles.

Just my experience.