The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    Hiya Patrick,

    I have never worked on or played a Guild/Benedetto AA. They look great to me, and as a devout non-collector, they strike me as a bargain if one is looking for this sort of guitar.

    I read the write up on yours - and even understanding the rhetorical flourishes of sales, it does seem to have really impressed as a superb guitar.

    Love the finish as well.

    In my opinion the Corona period may have been extremely important in developing the sensibilities that lead to the way Benedetto Guitars is run now in Savannah - with very skilled luthiers working under very much hands-on direction from the B-man his-self.

    Under six-large for such a guitar strikes me as a bargain as already stated by more collector-minded guys.

    Chris

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  3. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick2
    No Gregg, You've got that wrong. Only the first 18 were signed by Johnny Smith. He did so on the back of the head stock with a silver colored felt tip pen. Bob Benedetto had supposedly signed all of the labels inside the F hole.

    not to be picky, but it wasnt the first 18. i kept the article from the October 2004 issue of 20th Century Guitar Magazine when the special run was announced. there is a photo of Johnny Smith and Bob with the Corona team (Stephen Stern, Paul Walker, Jose Guerrero, and Gonzalo Madrigal) taken on Monday 8/9/2004. (Bob signed my certificate on 9-6-03)

    The guitar included The Complete Roost Johnny Smith Small Group Sessions 8-CD box set. All included it was $11,000.00.

    Fuller's Vintage Guitar had a honey blonde one and an opulent brown one at the Dallas Guitar Show in April 2005. Really pissed me off that I missed that run by one year!

  4. #28

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    Bob was interviewed in JJG magazine in November 2005 and was asked about this guitar and the rest of his line. Some quotes:

    "At the factory they use the same finishing process that I use. They even use the same lacquer formulated for musical instruments by Lawrence McFadden in Philadelphia. My team is not involved with that, however. We provide the finishing department with instruments sanded and ready to spray. The finishers refer to finished sample instruments that I made, and are very careful to adhere to the specs. The guitar is sprayed, buffed, and then returned to my department for final setup".

    "For years, before signing with Fender, I admired the Guild Artist Award. I always liked the way it looked, but it was obvious that it was slipping in the marketplace".

    "One facet of my contract with FMIC was to do just that-refine this model. Now it's carved and tuned from the finest European cello woods, and lightly x-braced with a 3" body depth".

    "Aesthetically I was careful not to change it from a Guild to a Benedetto"

    "The icing on the cake was when Bill Schultz, Fender's CEO, and Johnny Smith joined forces."... "It was a personal dream for him to expand FMIC into the jazz guitar market. So, the Artist Award is now, once agin -- after 40 years -- the Johnny Smith Award. And there I was, right in the middle of it!".

    "I got to know Johnny over the years, even made him two guitars. My own models incorporate many of his design ideas. It has also been a privelage to work with the Guild staff. The result of our efforts is a Johnny Smith model that now overshadows the competition. I love that guitar!"

  5. #29

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    ff . . . read the article. This is a pretty common fact and seems to be well supported.

    The justjazzguitars Collection

  6. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick2
    ff . . . read the article. This is a pretty common fact and seems to be well supported.

    The justjazzguitars Collection

    you mean that it wasnt the "first" 18 that were signed? meaning, they had been making them awhile? (this article calls out the same date that i mentioned above, 8/2004 when they were signed, which is about a year after mine was signed by Bob and his team).

  7. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
    well, there's always a signed version of same for $3k more:

    Guild Benedetto Johnny Smith Artist Award Archtop Jazz Guitar New Condition | eBay

    so what's that, $1500 per signature?
    only as a used guitar - not new. that was the whole point of having JS sign it though. Heritage, you might say.

  8. #32

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    Hee-hee. The article (to which Patrick links) starts out by mis-naming Westerly, Rhode Island as "Waverly". So the author is either a Waverly tuner fan, a "Man From Uncle" fan, or maybe could do with some slightly enhanced fact-checking edits?

    This is of course an unfair extrapolation from a simple factual error. Westerly, RI is a somewhat un-amazing place so maybe it does not inspire nominal accuracy.

    Still a really fine looking guitar. Now stop it gents. What would happen if I got silly and dumped 6 big ones into such an axe?

    Really, it does look like a fine deal for someone who wants a piece of that time and place, and of course a great guitar.

    EDIT: I went back and re-read the article. It also includes a reference to a "TDK" case. Now TKL makes cases, TDK is an audio company - not known for guitar cases - but you can probably score some TDK VHS tapes cheaply on Ebay.

    In my opinion this article is not a reasonable source to quote for basic facts. Any facts would require solid reference from somewhere (pretty much anywhere) else. This is in my opinion, and my interpretation of two simple facts that are easy to check, yet somewhat humo[u]rously incorrect.

    Chris
    Last edited by PTChristopher; 11-14-2012 at 09:32 PM.

  9. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick2
    No Gregg, You've got that wrong. Only the first 18 were signed by Johnny Smith. He did so on the back of the head stock with a silver colored felt tip pen. Bob Benedetto had supposedly signed all of the labels inside the F hole.
    that's why I supplied the link to the GBJS on feebay...as per the other link at just jazz guitar above, apparently they both signed:

    this sunburst GBJS only has a signature on the f-hole tag...which seems odd given that many Benedetto's I've seen are all signed in the manner of the GBJS above.
    Last edited by 2bornot2bop; 11-05-2014 at 04:19 PM.

  10. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Archtop Guy
    2bop, Are you saying your's is not signed by Bob? Did Guild continue to produce Johnny Smiths without signed labels?
    the label inside is signed by Bob on all of these as far as I know. as well as a nice Benedetto certificate of authenticity.


    a beautiful case too. its all first class, trust me. Benedetto does it right, brother.


    my more expensive Le Grand came in a really crappy case that Gibson outsources. My leather-bound Citation case is like Fort Knox however, and very nice if a "little" heavy (think Twin Reverb heavy)

  11. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
    that's why I supplied the link to the GBJS on feebay...as per the other link at just jazz guitar above, apparently they both signed:



    this sunburst GBJS only has a signature on the f-hole tag...which seems odd given that many Benedetto's I've seen are all signed in the manner of the GBJS above.
    Bob didn't always sign his guitars on the outside. That has come late. The Fratello he built for me in 1997 in his Stroudsburg shop was only signed on the inside label.

  12. #36

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    yeah, probably started in his new Georgia shop. i think he's got a great business now. doin' it his way, but with more volume, and he's at the shop, and its his name on the bidness.

    i need to buy another, come to think of it. scheming already.

  13. #37

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    Wow gents. Does anyone have any idea whatsoever how the current Benedetto company is doing. I mean from a P&L perspective, and considering the change in pro-line distribution, etc.?

    I certainly wish them well, but I have no idea how the business is actually going in these unusual times.

    Any facts?

  14. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by oldane
    Bob didn't always sign his guitars on the outside. That has come late. The Fratello he built for me in 1997 in his Stroudsburg shop was only signed on the inside label.
    Yeah .. .that's pretty accurate oldane. The guy I bought my opulent brown JS Award from also had a blond, signed by Johnny Smith, on the back of the head stock. Bob Benedetto's signature wasn't on the back of the head stock on that one. I just searched my email archive and photobucket. I must have deleted the pictures he sent me when he offered me the blond for sale a year after I bought the opulent brown one. I passed on it . .. and he sold it a year later for the exact same amount that I paid him for the brown one.
    Last edited by Patrick2; 11-15-2012 at 11:31 AM.

  15. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by PTChristopher
    Wow gents. Does anyone have any idea whatsoever how the current Benedetto company is doing. I mean from a P&L perspective, and considering the change in pro-line distribution, etc.?

    I certainly wish them well, but I have no idea how the business is actually going in these unusual times.

    Any facts?
    No real hard facts . . . just hearsay . . . but, I've heard he has down sized quite a bit, and is actually "hands on" involved quite a bit more now than he was in past years.
    Last edited by Patrick2; 12-15-2012 at 11:58 AM.

  16. #40

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    Bush's fault, right?

  17. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by fumblefingers
    Bush's fault, right?
    HA!! And it will continue to be so for the next 4 years!

    Uh-oh . . . here come the politics police . . .

    Don't worry guys (and gals) . . . just a quick little tongue in cheek humor between ff and myself.

  18. #42

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    No politics here, but in my opinion the collector can sometimes take it quite far in building a personality story around a guitar or guitar builder/company.

    If this heads well into a high orbit above any actual facts, maybe it can be misleading in the guise of enthusiasm. The Epi Byrdland is a good example. Great guitar and a great price. But rather than leave it at that, all sorts of stories have been told about it being "TOO GOOD" etc. - when there are absolutely no verified facts whatsoever to support the various tales that get build on this.

    Anyway,...

    I have zero info on the Benedetto Guitars business situation. But it does seem that there is indeed some significant downsizing and re-definition from the targets and business model first foreseen and described by the chairman.

    Not a bad thing necessarily, and very possibly a good adaptation to the changing market.

    Chris
    Last edited by PTChristopher; 11-15-2012 at 12:35 PM.

  19. #43
    Given that the scale length is a stretch for some, and the GBJS is priced $600 from a L5 WesMo I've decided to pass.

    If I'm going to pay $5600 for a 10 year old GBJS, it makes sense to pay $6200 for the 6 year old WesMo with all the appeal that archtop has. Well, that's my thinking...

    Thx all for their input.

  20. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
    Given that the scale length is a stretch for some, and the GBJS is priced $600 from a L5 WesMo I've decided to pass.

    If I'm going to pay $5600 for a 10 year old GBJS, it makes sense to pay $6200 for the 6 year old WesMo with all the appeal that archtop has. Well, that's my thinking...

    Thx all for their input.
    Everybody (guitar players - collectors) chooses to purchase a guitar for their own reasons. Given your expressed interest in arch tops with a single inset pup . . . and the level of enjoyment you derive from buying a guitar, assessing it's attributes and performance, then moving it out to make room for another . . . . you choice here is not a surprise . . and in my opinion, the correct choice . . for you. That is further confirmed by your explanation (in your current post above) as to why you would seek an L5 Wesmo and pass on the GBJS. If you do bring in the Wesmo and then decide to move it out, it'll probably sell immediately. The GBJS, on the other hand, is a bit more of "an aquired taste" and as such will be a bit more of a challenge for you to move.

    However, in comparing the two guitars' functionality against each other . . . the Wesmo couldn't touch the GBJS as it relates to acoustic and mildly amplified tone. On the other hand, the GBJS couldn't touch the Wesmo as it relates to amplified versatility in a band setting.

    As for the comparisons that some have made in this thread of the newer GBJS and the older Westerly RI built Guild AAs . . . as a collector/player, my heart is firmly devoted to the Guild AA. I definitely will, eventually buy a late '70s blond AA with a floating D'Armond 110 Rhythm Chief pup.

  21. #45

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    [quote=PTChristopher;269781]

    No politics here,
    Wimp!!

    but in my opinion the collector can sometimes take it quite far in building a personality story around a guitar or guitar builder/company.
    HA! Ya think???

    If this heads well into a high orbit above any actual facts, maybe it can be misleading in the guise of enthusiasm.
    Enthusiasm is probably 50% or better of a collectors psyche

    I have zero info on the Benedetto Guitars business situation. But it does seem that there is indeed some significant downsizing and re-definition from the targets and business model first foreseen and described by the chairman.

    Not a bad thing necessarily, and very possibly a good adaptation to the changing market.

    Chris
    Gotta give Bob credit for having the coglioni (Bob's Italian . . so too are his balls) to attempt growing his business through a dealer venue. Either that, or criticize his lack of business accumen. It was a flawed business concept from the outset, to think he could sell his guitar through dealers . . . . but he had the balls to give it a try.

    I think Bob got a bit infront of himself, due to the high level of acceptance and demand for his guitars by some of the top jazzers . . vis-a-vis "The Benedetto Players". I think he mistakenly anticipated a huge pull through effect that would over come the very high price points of his products. The dealers need to realize a minimum of 30% margins for it to be worth their investment of speculatively stocking ultra high end guitars. That means that Bob would need to lower his price to the dealer by 30%, in order to keep his MSRP where it was prior to going through a dealer . . . (that wasn't gonna happen) . . . . or the MSRP would need to be raised to accommodate dealer margin . . . putting the price points well above what the market would tolerate.

    Bob's guitars, at their price points, need to be a direct deal with the end user.

  22. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
    Your astute insights provide good points all around brother!

    I love the look of the GBJS, and the slight mods Benedetto made to both the Guild JS and AA.

    I actually called several days ago and made a respectable offer. It was considered and declined, rightfully so perhaps, because both their AA and JS have just been consigned by the owner of both archtops. Can't blame them for wanting to test the waters.

    And then, a funny thing happened after the managers callback. I thought, geez, we're really not that far apart, and after all it's a GBJS...it's worth another $600 bucks. And as I was talkin' myself into calling back and pullin' the trigger that voice on my shoulder began chimin' in...you don't know the guitar...someone knows info on this guitar that perhaps is worth knowing...so I came here in search of verification.

    Having had my attention diverted with a pair of Guild X-170's that arrived a few weeks ago, and while staring at the website featuring the GBJS I removed Ms. BTA from the case where she'd been for the better part of 3 weeks. And a few chords in I suddenly realized DAMN! Do I really really want to roll the dice on an unknown vs. this wonderful bird in hand?

    And then another thing occurred to me that had been drowned out in a momentary bout of GAS...geez, with the price difference you could own a pair of Heritage's...Ms. BTA, an already known proven performer, and another Heritage, perhaps one with a set pup, to compliment this fine floater...needless to say, the voice of reason remedied me from a GAS attack. I own a rare and stellar archtop in Ms. BTA...and although I'd love to own something as exclusive as the GBJS it's not worth the roll of the dice of having to give up Ms. BTA simply to sample that beautiful archtop...so in the end, perhaps I needed to experience this GAS episode to truly evaluate the value of Ms. BTA...again, having come to that crossroads a few weeks back with the ALSB GE...but that comparison was no contest...thinking out loud...pay me no mind!
    Make no mistake about it . . . that black GE is every bit as wonderful as the GBJS . . . albeit as as totally different guitar. I believe you choice was a good one.

    Suggestion . . . I really don't like how high that bridge saddle needs to sit on the base. In my opinion . . . get yourself a deeper saddle and roll those thumb wheels down . . . getting rid of the second set of thumb wheels. It's sitting up way too high and might, over time, pull the base studs forward, towards the head stock of the guitar. You don't want that to happen.
    Last edited by Patrick2; 11-15-2012 at 11:35 PM.

  23. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick2
    Suggestion . . . I really don't like how high that bridge saddle needs to sit on the base. In my opinion . . . get yourself a deeper saddle and roll those thumb wheels down . . . getting rid of the second set of thumb wheels. It's sitting up way too high and might, over time, pull the base studs forward, towards the head stock of the guitar. You don't want that to happen.
    I'd intended to have an entirely new fitted bridge base made to combat that gap if I decided to keep her...I'm leaning in that direction for at the cost of Ms. BTA nothing I've found thus far can compare. Besides, acoustically and electrically it's almost like owning 2 archtops in 1.

  24. #48

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    [Me] >>> No politics here,

    [Patrick] >>>Wimp!!

    Oh man, now you made me spill my Chamomile,...

    >>> Enthusiasm is probably 50% or better of a collectors psyche

    100% agreed about the 50%. Much as I lack many personality traits, I just cannot plug into the collector grid for some reason. I must lack enthusiasm.

    But I definitely value the collector contingent here. Very interesting perspectives.

    >>> Gotta give Bob credit for having the coglioni (Bob's Italian . . so too are his balls) to attempt growing his business through a dealer venue. Either that, or criticize his lack of business accumen. It was a flawed business concept from the outset,

    If I may opine with no info or apparent insight - it is possible that the business planning and level of applied acumen may be more from Mr Paul. You gots your guitar maker and your business guy.

    Maybe (and probably not) the business guy wants to be take these great guitars and designs and build a new powerhouse from the ground up. You needs a dealer channel to move the volume - so hang the sense of it, we'll go with dealers.

    Then you end up making all the actual sales yourself over the phone. Nobody cares about the dealers, they want to talk guitars with the source and become part of the "famiglia" (per intenderci) - and then buy the guitar.

    Sooooo,... you have a useless channel chewing up margin and you sell lots of Bambini, which cost as much to make as a Bravo and you collect what - maybe $1,750 per Bambino?

    Not a pretty picture.

    I love my early-Savannah Bravo. A totally non-collectable guitar that just does the job great.

    I really hope they make it all work down there. I hope they develop a long-term staff (but that means you gots to pay,...) and last forever.

    Thanks for your views on this. And to silent readers, please note that this is all in my irresponsible opinion, probably fraught with error, and not intended to disparage any of the great people in the guitar business.

    I really love the Benedetto guitars (both the workmen models and the spectacular flagship models) and the company ethos.

    Chris
    Last edited by PTChristopher; 11-15-2012 at 10:47 PM.

  25. #49

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    PTChristopher: "I really love the Benedetto guitars (both the workmen models and the spectacular flagship models) and the company ethos."

    me too,

    from this:
    Benny One-Off Spalted Alder | Benedetto Guitars

    to this:
    Benny One-Off in Sweet Tea | Benedetto Guitars

    to this:
    16-B One-off Custom Aquamarine Burst | Benedetto Guitars

    to this:
    Manhattan Autumnburst | Benedetto Guitars

    to this:
    L’Omaggio (The Homage) | Benedetto Guitars

    to this:
    Cremona 18″ | Benedetto Guitars

  26. #50

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    Really amazing output from Savannah, especially when you show it like that.