The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    The note sounded on the 5th string, 8th fret (F note in standard tuning) is MUCH LOUDER than any other note on my 2002 Gibson ES-175 Reissue. When plucked, it begins to create some mild feedback regardless of which amp I am using (and yes I have adjusted the EQs on my amps as well - Jazz Amp & AER Compact 60. Every other note and/or string is very much in balance.

    I only use the bridge position '57 Humbucker pickup on this guitar so I adjusted the pole piece (downward) under the fifth (A) string on that bridge pickup but that F note still rings much louder (>20%) than the other notes.

    I've heard of 'resonate frequency' but not entirely sure what it is or if it applies.

    Any ideas, or fixes?
    Last edited by StevieB; 10-11-2012 at 07:58 PM.

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  3. #2

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    Fixes: You could try a parametric eq with a narrow band.

    Does this loud note also occur when using only headphones (i.e no amp or speakers)?

  4. #3

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    Stevie,

    All guitars have acoustic resonant peaks.

    So do pickups, speakers, rooms, etc..

    Many (most?) players never notice them.

    Some think the peaks come from "the neck" because they are playing a particular place on "the neck" when they notice the peak. It is not at all necessarily from "the neck".

    >>> Any ideas, or fixes?

    - Add or remove mass from the bridge - if you have an ABR-1, try a Nashville T-O-M, or a wooden bridge.

    - Change string mass - try up or down a gauge.

    - Change tuner mass - go to heavier of lighter tuners.

    - Get used to the peculiarity of that note and adjust your playing accordingly.

    - Try a sound post.

    Note that any of these may help, or none of them may help enough for you.

    It is a rather complex picture.

    All in my opinion.

    Chris

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    Fixes: You could try a parametric eq with a narrow band.

    Does this loud note also occur when using only headphones (i.e no amp or speakers)?
    Good suggestion. I tried the headphones and it is still louder though.

  6. #5

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    All guitars have acoustic resonant peaks . . . Chris
    Thanks for all the input Chris.

    Someone on The Gear Page suggested checking out other locations/notes on the guitar that are the same.

    So I checked out the suggestion and was surprised to learn that the three F notes at that frequency are all much louder than other notes on the guitar.

    They are: 5th string, 8th fret / 4th string, 3rd fret, / 6th string, 13th fret.

    So now I'm thinking it must be something about the resonance of the guitar itself.
    __________________

  7. #6

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    >>> So now I'm thinking it must be something about the resonance of the guitar itself.

    Yep.

    But there are variations on this:

    1. All notes of a given frequency are unusually resonant.

    2. Some but not all notes of the given frequency are unusually resonant.

    3. Only one specific location of a given note is unusually resonant.

    4. More than one given frequency is unusually resonant.

    Your situation is not at all unusual. You can try bridges of different mass (more mass or less) to try to shirt the frequency and reduce the amplitude of the resonant peak.

    Chris

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by PTChristopher
    >>> So now I'm thinking it must be something about the resonance of the guitar itself.

    Yep.

    But there are variations on this:

    1. All notes of a given frequency are unusually resonant.

    2. Some but not all notes of the given frequency are unusually resonant.

    3. Only one specific location of a given note is unusually resonant.

    4. More than one given frequency is unusually resonant.

    Your situation is not at all unusual. You can try bridges of different mass (more mass or less) to try to shirt the frequency and reduce the amplitude of the resonant peak.

    Chris
    Hey Chris, So is this 'phenomenon' a function of the design of the ES-175 or just 'my' ES-175?

  9. #8

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    Hey Stevie,

    In my opinion the phenomenon is a function of the design of all guitars.

    Listen to some of the higher quality Segovia recordings and note the pretty intense resonant peak notes now and then.

    Now, if someone strums and sings "Puff the Magic Dragon" it is pretty much impossible to notice any resonant peaks, which is pretty much the only 'up-side' to someone strumming and singing "Puff the Magic Dragon".

    I have a Guild X-180 that has two peaks, but they are almost impossible to hear - low amplitude peaks.

    My Benedetto Bravo has a notable peak at G 392. It is only really noticeable at the B string 8th fret and is a short decay of the root note with sustained harmonics.

    I built a very small carved spruce top guitar last year that is really pushing the limits for acoustic action in a tiny box. And it has two peaks. The one that is noticeable can be moved from C# 277 to a bit above E 329 by varying the bridge mass (by an pretty extreme amount).

    Anyway, there is nothing wrong with the 175 design, nor with yours in particular, in my opinion.

    If is bugs you to death, you can try to alter it some (as mentioned), or also try other 175's to see what differences you notice between 175s.

    All in my opinion.

    Chris

  10. #9

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    I would suppose your particular 175 would have a slightly different resonant frequency (and overtone set) from others, because different wood resonates differently. I have this same problem with some hollow bodies.

    My quick-and-dirty solution, if you're playing solo, is to tune the whole guitar up or down a quarter step.

  11. #10

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    I bought this guitar new in 2002 and up until very recently only played it with a pick and never noticed the relative loudness of the three F notes.

    However since the arch top I typically use for fingerstyle is with my tech getting serviced I've been playing some chord melody tunes with fingers only on the ES-175.

    So I'm playing a fairly mellow tune and playing an F^7#11 chord at the 7th/8th fret and that is where I first noticed the loudness of the F note on the 5th string, 8th fret.

    That chord inversion (x87787) is not an easy one for me to play, but I'll just have to learn to play the root F as softly as I can

    Thanks for all the input.

  12. #11

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    I've had issues with notes on the A string in the 8th-11th fret region on most of the archtops I've owned (Heritages and Eastmans). Through an amp, those are the notes that will start feeding back with little encouragement.

  13. #12

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    I have heard it called frequency buildup. My Epi JP had some issues with D flat especially at the 11th position, but when I changed pickups it switched to a different note. I have also noted some differences when I change strings or settings on the amp.

    My Godin Kingpin has different notes with frequency buildups. I just think of it as a gremlin I have to watch out for when I play. I have learned to use my hand for damping a lot.

  14. #13

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    try putting some blue tack paste on the string between the bridge and the tailpiece. Something the size of a small olive. If it doesn't work sandwich the paste between two coins or poker chips for extra weight.

    Use the white paste which doesn't seem to stain the guitar as much should it accidentally end on the wood of the guitar.(but it does stain)

  15. #14

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    My gypsy guitar has a noticeable wolf-tone on the 6th string, 8th fret (C). I've just learned to live with it. I simply hit softer when I'm at that note and I hardly even notice it anymore. Maybe not a good solution for your situation, but it's how I deal with it :shrug:

  16. #15

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    All, ALL guitars have so-called wolf notes. Some are just far more subtle than others.

    Good job on learning to deal with it on a particular guitar.

    listen to some fine classical guitar recording s and hear the payer dealing with these notes, and in some cases - sometimes really not dealing with them so successfully.

    It is a fact of life when a guitar has notable acoustic character.

    Chris

  17. #16

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    Every archtop I have played does this. I usually get G, Ab, or A on all 4 wound strings with the A string being the strongest especially after the 12th fret.
    If you change the eq on the amp, the note will move 1/2 step one way or the other.
    I use my palm at the bridge to slightly choke the note out just enough or sustain it less.
    I don't think this is a problem rather a normal condition.
    Every excellent player that plays archtops is good at controlling this.
    I have noticed that if you turn the guitar volume down just off of ten and turn the amp up a hair, it is much more manageable.