String gauge on your archtop?

**wintermoon** · 09-07-2012, 03:36 PM

I wonder why so many use flatwounds, to me they sound so....dull, and...flat
I had a set on a guitar eons ago and couldn't wait to go back to rounds--the sparkle was back.

I don't like a thin, trebly sound, but also can't figure why so many also roll the tone controls down so much, again dull, muffled and flat to my ears....

btw, nickel round 13-54 or 56 for me

**TPMCD** · 09-07-2012, 04:01 PM

Some time ago, I got really, really interested in string gauge...so I made a spread sheet of a couple of different sets by D'Addario and Thomastik-Infeld. The reason I did it is that I had a Harmony Sovereign that I wanted to put "heavier" strings on, but I didn't want to put too much tension on the neck...so I was looking for the "lightest" heavy gauge.

I found out what most of you know already, that the TI's are somewhat "lighter". The reason is, of course, is that TI uses lighter gauges after the high E and B strings...in other words, both 12's sets start out at 12 for E, then 16 for B, but then TI goes to 20 for G, while the Chromes go to 24 for G, etc.

What is interesting about this is it results in the TI set having a more overall "balanced" tension...each string's tension hovers around the same value, while the Chromes kind of "spike" in the middle. Here's the data:

TI Jazz Swing Set 12's
Total tension: 140.4 lbs.
Average tension: 23.40 lbs.
Range: 1.8 lbs. (the high E is 22.8 the G is 24.6).
Standard deviation: 0.71 lbs...most of strings (5) fall within 0.71 lbs. of the average.

D'Addario Chromes 12's
Total tension: 155.2 lbs.
Average tension: 25.87 lbs.
Range: of 7.3 lbs. (the low E is 22.7 and the G is 30.0)
Standard deviation: 2.86 lbs.

This is a pretty big difference actually, and it made a difference on my Harmony...I went with the TI's. Now, of course, you could get somewhat of the same result by buying different sets of Chromes and mixing and matching to get the "even" tension.

I know this is all geeked out and really has not much to do with actual playing, but sometimes my OCD gets the better of me.

Also, I'm not saying that the "even" tension is better...I like it, but others may not. In fact, I read somewhere on the D'Addario website that they experimented with that and didn't think that it sounded good (or something like that).

OK, sorry for the long post...obviously, this is something that interests me, hope you found it useful!

Tom

**JensL** · 09-07-2012, 04:14 PM

That's a great post! I was have looked into it like that myself and it is probably the main reason why I use thomastiks.

I always wondered why nobody else did it like that.

Jens

**TPMCD** · 09-07-2012, 04:42 PM

Here's a link to that D'Addario "even tension" question...although the reply mentions "bass", so they may not be talking about guitar:

D'Addario Strings : FAQ

And here's some info they put together regarding string tension...really informative stuff:

http://www.daddario.com/upload/tension_chart_13934.pdf

**Spook410** · 09-07-2012, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by Jabberwocky

I guess jazz cats don't bend notes much.

Don't find .013's hard to bend but ymmv.

**ruger9** · 09-07-2012, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by wintermoon

I wonder why so many use flatwounds, to me they sound so....dull, and...flat
I had a set on a guitar eons ago and couldn't wait to go back to rounds--the sparkle was back.

I think it depends on the guitar. My Epi Broadway is so warm acoustically (some would probably say "dead" I'm sure), roundwounds are the way to go. However, I played a Kingpin this week, and while it sounded pretty good acoustically with rounds, it also sounded a bit... thin/cheap/boxy. I have little doubt flatwounds would sound better (warmer) on it, acoustically.

**Dennis D** · 09-07-2012, 11:41 PM

..and D'Addario Chromes.....curious as to why a respondent used to use them, but didn't like them any more...
also - -fwiw = I used to use 13's but my luthier advised that 12's would be less strain on my '36 Gibson L-7, so I switched, and don't mind it at all !
Dennis...

**jekyll & hyde** · 09-13-2012, 02:05 PM

At the moment,LaBella flatwound 11's on my Emperor and 13's on my Moll.
I go back and fourth between Labella and Thomastik. Like them both.

**tubeswell** · 09-13-2012, 03:07 PM

11-50 on my Hoyer Expo

**Spivey** · 09-13-2012, 07:23 PM

I have 13s (Chromes) on mine. I intend to try LaBella 13s next.

**hot ford coupe** · 09-13-2012, 08:38 PM

When I first voted on this poll, I used a custom set of .014s on a 39 D'A. In the last month I've had too much trouble with my left hand cramping up. I had switched to .013 D'Addario Chromes but that also gave me trouble. Then I tried TI Jazz Swing .013s which were a lot better but I still had discomfort. As of now, I use TI Jazz Swing .012s on my Heritage Gretsch and Guild AA and that feels pretty good. I think that's what I'll stay with.

**floatingpickup** · 11-01-2012, 02:00 PM

I used D'addario Chromes for many years and I really liked them. Then I switched to Thomastik Jazz Swing Flatwounds, mainly because I like the extra weight of the two unwound treble strings. The heavier unwound strings just feel better and sound a little "punchier" and warmer to me. I now have Thomastik's on almost all of my guitars. I use JS112's (12-50) on my ES175's and JS113's (13-52) on my L5's and other 17" archtops (floating pickups and scale lengths of 25" or 25.5"). My action is very low on all these guitars. IMO, the 12-50 set feels absolutely perfect on an ES175, but I find the slightly heavier gauge suits the longer scale 17" guitars better. Thomastik strings are a little expensive and hard to get, but I really like them and they seem to last a long time.
Keith

**3rdOrbit** · 11-05-2012, 12:07 AM

I'm one of the odd ones out. I've got an arch, but I don't like fat strings. It's 10's for me all the way. And in round wounds. Flats don't inspire me.

Supposedly fat strings equal fat tone and big sustain. I find thinner strings are just as fat with the tone rolled down, and they sustain just as well. I'll go out on a limb and say they sustain even better. Call me crazy.

And thin strings are much easier to play. And because they are, there is a nuance and touch you can get that is much harder to achieve with the heavies. You can really make your guitar talk with thinner strings.

String me up and pelt me with stones, but I think it's been proven by some of the greats.

**Spook410** · 11-05-2012, 12:50 AM

I guess I'll bury this in this thread since there isn't a better place to put it.

JustStrings.com is having a 10% off sale on Tomastik Infield strings including Swings, BeBops, and Bensons. The check out code is 10onti

Be sure and make sure it's active.. quite often their sales only last for a day or two.

**cp_morton** · 11-08-2012, 01:24 AM

I'm playing a DeArmond x-155 that I bought used about 2 yrs ago. I love the guitar, it's feels great, plays well and I personally think the tone is very good. When I got it it had 12 - 52's on it. The guy told me what strings they were but I've forgotten the brand. I thought they were good - they sounded good to me but my experience with hollow bodies and flat wound strings is limited. Lately I've been finding the strings a bit dull sounding so I picked up some D'addario 12s chromes. I'm not sure I like them yet. I find them not as smooth as the others and kind of a brighter twangy sound - less warm than I expected. I'm not sure if it's just cuz I left it so long to get new strings and I'm used to the dull sound or what. I'm playing light-weight jazz standards with a little band and looking for a classic warm tone. any thoughts??

**oldane** · 11-08-2012, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by cp_morton

Lately I've been finding the strings a bit dull sounding so I picked up some D'addario 12s chromes. I'm not sure I like them yet. I find them not as smooth as the others and kind of a brighter twangy sound - less warm than I expected. I'm not sure if it's just cuz I left it so long to get new strings and I'm used to the dull sound or what.

You're right, Chromes are a bit twangy when new. But they mellow quite nicely when played for a couple of weeks without becoming overly dull like so many other brands of flatwounds (because they started out more bright than many others they also end up less dull). Since they last a long time, it can be worth waiting for. I suggest you give them a chance before discarding them. The 13-56 set is a bit less twangy than the 12-52 - but not much so.

**monkmiles** · 11-14-2012, 11:48 PM

Originally Posted by Klatu

I posted my string gauge a while back but forgot to mention that I use both D'Addario Chromes and Thomastic Flatwounds. The flatwounds have 13s on top, but the rest of the set is the same as the D'Addarios, so I place them into the same gauge category as the D'Addarios.

I've been using the Daddario Chromes 12s but this has me wanting to try the Thomastic flatwound 13s. Though it appears none of the gauges are quite the same between them. The TI set is lighter for the G, D and A strings and .001 thicker on the E, B and low E.

**cp_morton** · 11-15-2012, 01:00 AM

guys this the response post have been great feedback for me - thx. As Oldane said, I'm starting to warm up to the D'Addario sound having given them a bit of a chance. From this discussion I'm now remembering that the guy from whom I got my guitar said the strings (at time of purchase) were 'George Bensons'. I'm taking that to mean TI George Bensons cuz I don't know of any other GBs out there. I'm also wondering if I'll go back to those when I'm done with the new set of D'Addarios - dunno yet.

**silhouette** · 11-15-2012, 08:50 AM

D'Addario 12 - 52 for me. However I do change the wound G for a 24 plain G. This mainly so I can bend in my usual style. Partly as a result of coming to archtops quite late in the day. This has mean't that I have had to replace the top part of the bridge on my GB10 with a tune'0'matic. My L4 was fine.

**HighSpeedSpoon** · 11-15-2012, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by cp_morton

... I'm also wondering if I'll go back to those [the TI George Bensons] when I'm done with the new set of D'Addarios - dunno yet.

I've always gone back to the GBs. This thread is the first I've heard of the Chromes "mellowing out", and I believe oldane, but the whole idea waiting a few weeks for that to happen is unacceptable to me.

**4mal** · 11-17-2012, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by HighSpeedSpoon

I've always gone back to the GBs. This thread is the first I've heard of the Chromes "mellowing out", and I believe oldane, but the whole idea waiting a few weeks for that to happen is unacceptable to me.

Coming at this from my bass player perspective, it is one reason I have multitple gigging basses as ALL bass strings exhibit that behavior. chromes, LABella and D'Addario tapes, TI Jazz Flats - as bass strings, they all go on brite and mellow.

I'm on my first set of strings since acquiring an Eastman 810. Chromes in the .052 to .012. I also have a set of those on my old thinline. If I want twang.... I grab my old Tele or P90 loaded PRS.

**Encinitastubes** · 11-26-2012, 10:00 AM

I've been using standard D'Addario 12s (round wound) on my P-90 ES-175 and just put on a set of TI 13s (flat wound). They feel great and sound nice. However, I don't know if its the wind or the gauge, but they seem to take the P-90 out of the equation. Think I'll go back.

**ESCC** · 11-28-2012, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by Encinitastubes

I've been using standard D'Addario 12s (round wound) on my P-90 ES-175 and just put on a set of TI 13s (flat wound). They feel great and sound nice. However, I don't know if its the wind or the gauge, but they seem to take the P-90 out of the equation. Think I'll go back.

Try TI Bebop Strings on your 175 with P90s, more bite than flatwounds but a better tone for jazz than D'Addario EXLs. I have Bebops on a 69 Les Paul with P90s and a Heritage 535, they work well in all genres.

**Jabberwocky** · 11-28-2012, 03:35 PM

I like the Elixir Nanoweb 12-52. Toss out the 12 and 16 and replace them with 13 and 17 for 25.5" scale and 14 and 18 for 24.75" scale.

**Encinitastubes** · 11-28-2012, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by ESCC

Try TI Bebop Strings on your 175 with P90s, more bite than flatwounds but a better tone for jazz than D'Addario EXLs. I have Bebops on a 69 Les Paul with P90s and a Heritage 535, they work well in all genres.

If I liked the 12s on the D'Addario, would you recommend the 13s for the TI Bebop strings?