Amps Tone "Cutting Through the Mix" - Just what does that mean?

**AlsoRan** · 03-08-2012, 04:15 PM

Folks,

I have often read in amp reviews various complaints of an amp "not cutting through the mix." This statement does not compute with me without further explanation. Does this term mean the amp is not loud enough? Or as one reviewer hinted, are there amps whose tone does not have high enough frequencies such that they blend in with other instruments and don't stand out during solos? Or is this just some subjective term that is thrown out when one cannot adequately describe one's thoughts? Thanks.

**feral guitar** · 03-08-2012, 04:23 PM

not enuff of certain freqs, his, mids

**mr. beaumont** · 03-08-2012, 04:39 PM

Term usually used by players who try to use the same tone on the gig that they do in their living room, and then they complain about it.

**PTChristopher** · 03-08-2012, 04:41 PM

>>> just some subjective term that is thrown out when one cannot adequately describe one's thoughts?

Yes, that one.

It is, in my opinion, unfortunately common to go vague when it apparently takes too much effort to find the actual issue at hand.

My favorite is "tighter bass". This can mean both more bass and less bass depending on how it is used. And works best when everyone stares off into space and nods in sympathetic (and yet random) understanding.

In my opinion there are a number of reasons that one may feel that their sound is not being heard.

1. Ego combined with limited objectivity.
2. "Yoko's" (or the equivalent) ego combined with limited objectivity.
3. through 7. More of the same.
8. Frequency mix that does not stand out from the band.
9. Attack that does not stand out (which can be due to #8 really).
10. An actual volume problem.

I notice that I'll practice with one tone balance, then with a band I am doing everything I can to sharpen attack and emphasize highs to "cut through" without an obnoxious increase in volume.

In my opinion there is not much worse than a guitarist using raw volume to ram their "tweed" tone through a mix.

All in my opinion only; there are surely more interesting takes on the subject.

Chris

**PTChristopher** · 03-08-2012, 04:42 PM

Oh hell Jeff - yeah go ahead and say it more accurately with 8% of the word count. (I was too busy wording it up while you posted.)

**AlsoRan** · 03-08-2012, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by PTChristopher

>>> just some subjective term that is thrown out when one cannot adequately describe one's thoughts?

Yes, that one.

It is, in my opinion, unfortunately common to go vague when it apparently takes too much effort to find the actual issue at hand.

My favorite is "tighter bass". This can mean both more bass and less bass depending on how it is used. And works best when everyone stares off into space and nods in sympathetic (and yet random) understanding.

In my opinion there are a number of reasons that one may feel that their sound is not being heard.

1. Ego combined with limited objectivity.
2. "Yoko's" (or the equivalent) ego combined with limited objectivity.
3. through 7. More of the same.
8. Frequency mix that does not stand out from the band.
9. Attack that does not stand out (which can be due to #8 really).
10. An actual volume problem.

I notice that I'll practice with one tone balance, then with a band I am doing everything I can to sharpen attack and emphasize highs to "cut through" without an obnoxious increase in volume.

In my opinion there is not much worse than a guitarist using raw volume to ram their "tweed" tone through a mix.

All in my opinion only; there are surely more interesting takes on the subject.

Chris

Ha Ha Ha!

But seriously, I guess this is where a good sound man (or sound woman) can earn their pay, right?

Thanks for all the feedback, everyone, especially about frequency characteristics and the fact that home settings will/may not suffice in every situation. But now I am really hesitant to buy another amp because it may not "cut it" live.

**mr. beaumont** · 03-08-2012, 05:04 PM

In a live situation with bass and drums, midrange is your friend.

It's really not about "cutting through a mix." It's about occupying the right place in a MIX. Because that's what a MIX is!

**PTChristopher** · 03-08-2012, 05:10 PM

>>> I am really hesitant to buy another amp because it may not "cut it" live.

Well most amps have the versatility to adapt to the situation, so long as the player shares the versatility.

What amp do you have in mind? I suppose there are some one-trick ponies out there that could be a problem beyond pilot error.

>>> In a live situation with bass and drums, midrange is your friend.

100% agreed, but I would watch out when you add a second guitar and a singer, things become quite a bit more crowded and some careful high end and upper mid emphasis at the right time can help quite a bit. My opinion.

EDIT: I think this is were a really skillful player shines and can move in and out of the singer's space as needed.

Chris

**Pierrot** · 03-08-2012, 05:23 PM

...

**mr. beaumont** · 03-08-2012, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by PTChristopher

I would watch out when you add a second guitar and a singer, things become quite a bit more crowded and some careful high end and upper mid emphasis at the right time can help quite a bit. My opinion.

EDIT: I think this is were a really skillful player shines and can move in and out of the singer's space as needed.

Chris

Boy, this is why I avoid that whole rock and roll fad!

When the singer's singing, they're the most important thing, as much as it pains us to admit this and further stroke the singer's ego.

**PTChristopher** · 03-08-2012, 05:44 PM

>>> I avoid that whole rock and roll fad!

That Elvis is destroying the moral character of the nation's youth.

I'm pretty sure that my Grandmother actually thought this. She did once say that Joe Namath represented evil, but I guess that was a few years later.

As we define both "cutting through the mix" and "hijacking the very useful thread".

I, for one, am ashamed.

Chris

**mr. beaumont** · 03-08-2012, 05:51 PM

I'm ashamed of you as well

But seriously, this rock thing? No staying power.

**cosmic gumbo** · 03-11-2012, 05:03 AM

Nothing cuts through the mix better than a chainsaw.

**tubeswell** · 03-11-2012, 05:16 AM

And a smaller chainsaw tends to have more mids and highs.

Joviality aside for a second or two, you can help your amp cut through the mix more with a treble booster (on a 'subtle' setting).

**Flyin' Brian** · 03-11-2012, 06:52 AM

Jeff's post about using "bedroom" or home setting live pretty much covers it.

The guitar doesn't need to cut through the mix as much as it needs to occupy a place in the mix that's not occupied by something else.

That usually means more mids, and in a rock situation, it means that in order to sound good in the audience, you may not be happy with your sound on stage. The more instruments and the more volume, the harder it is to achieve what you want, but you can be almost absolutely assured that the sound you love at home isn't going to be the best one live.

**AlsoRan** · 03-11-2012, 11:23 PM

Originally Posted by Flyin' Brian

Jeff's post about using "bedroom" or home setting live pretty much covers it.

The guitar doesn't need to cut through the mix as much as it needs to occupy a place in the mix that's not occupied by something else.

That usually means more mids, and in a rock situation, it means that in order to sound good in the audience, you may not be happy with your sound on stage. The more instruments and the more volume, the harder it is to achieve what you want, but you can be almost absolutely assured that the sound you love at home isn't going to be the best one live.

+1

**Gillman Royce** · 03-30-2012, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

In a live situation with bass and drums, midrange is your friend.

It's really not about "cutting through a mix." It's about occupying the right place in a MIX. Because that's what a MIX is!

WE have a winner: Mr. Mids !

**Synchro** · 03-30-2012, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

In a live situation with bass and drums, midrange is your friend.

It's really not about "cutting through a mix." It's about occupying the right place in a MIX. Because that's what a MIX is!

Originally Posted by Flyin' Brian

Jeff's post about using "bedroom" or home setting live pretty much covers it.

The guitar doesn't need to cut through the mix as much as it needs to occupy a place in the mix that's not occupied by something else.

That usually means more mids, and in a rock situation, it means that in order to sound good in the audience, you may not be happy with your sound on stage. The more instruments and the more volume, the harder it is to achieve what you want, but you can be almost absolutely assured that the sound you love at home isn't going to be the best one live.

I don't know that the amp is always the first place to look. A number of years ago I was playing an informal gig with a friend and he got hopping mad because I was drowning him out. The thing is, he had just switched to a new Stratocaster and I was playing a Tele with hot humbuckers. I wasn't clobbering him with volume, I just had a lot more midrange and the more he turned up the worse his guitar sounded because all that was coming through was the ultra-high sounds. He was throwing sonic icepicks at the audience by the end of the night. He got rid of the Strat soon thereafter.

I find it amusing because the same thing had happened to me the first time I took a Strat on stage. That bright, clear sound I liked at home turned into icepicks and razor-blades on stage. If I turned it up loud enough the front row would be suffering from piercing highs and little or no mid range. It's funny now but at the time; not so much.

The thing is, the mix varies from band to band, room to room and to some extent, from song to song. I prefer to lay in a trio setting because the "mix" is simple, turn up loud enough for the room and everything that is not drums or bass must be from my guitar.

Add in other instruments, especially chordal instruments, and the waters get murkier. The problem with other chordal instruments is that voicings can conflict causing cancellation of notes and unintentional dissonance. It's workable but everyone needs to cooperate to make it sound right.