Flatwounds strings - what a disappointment!

[jorgemg1984]

Well a Tele with PAFs, rounds and a RAT should be putting you in the right track... be patient

That specific phrase seems hard to play - not so much the notes (as you say C# minor pentatonic of Bb7, which implies Bb7 altered) but his rhytmic placement... it's not an obivous phrase at all. I never transcribed Scofield, one of the reasons is I tend to play stacatto or with strict bebop articulations; it would be hard for me to emule his random legatto...

[aniss1001]

That specific phrase seems hard to play..

Glad it's not just me. And yes I was reffering to the rhytmic placement. Perhaps phrasing wasn't the correct term?! Anyway he does this all the time. But now atleast I know WHY he is so hard to transcribe. And in general why jazz is so hard to transcribe. Even simple stuff like Paul Desmond. It's those "insinuated" / "ghosted" notes as well as notes that are often off by 1/4 note or whatnot. It kills my ears.

[jorgemg1984]

When I transcribe I try to be objective; I transcribed stuff from guys that play hard stuff Jarrett, Parker, Rosenwinkel, Metheny etc... If a specific part has lots of ghost notes and it's too hard I might skip it - sort of trying to see the big picture. If you have a hard time hearing Paul Desmond you might need to do some ear training though

That specific Scofiled phrase just seems hard on the rhytmic part - the melodic part didn't seem to hard actually. But his rhytmic placement is challenging no doubt about that...

[aniss1001]

If you have a hard time hearing Paul Desmond you might need to do some ear training though

Haha that's what I thought too. So I started using some eartraining software daily untill I could recognize all intervals with ease. But this DIDN'T improve my transcribing at all. I still couldn't do it with jazz (so I transcribed a lot of Bach simply because well I could) and I didn't know why until I started slowing things down and I realized it's bacause a lot of guitar / horn players often uses "bad" (read: expressive) articulation and whatnot. Like I said short notes, ghosted/muted notes, "in between" notes (on guitar = 1/4 note bending), etc was the real reason.

Desmond IS as simple as they get it jazz but he still uses the tecniques I just mentioned. He also often plays a lot of notes very soft and "airy" which also can be hard on my ear.

And yes that particular Sco phrase is very simple melodically indeed it is as you say the rhytmic placement that is hard and that was also the reason I mentioned it in the 1st place.

Anyway I definately wouldn't say that Sco is easy to transcribe (for the reasons I mentioned). I recently started transcribing some Rosenwinkel and I found him MUCH easier than Sco. Cleaner sound and more straight when it comes to picking, articulation, phrasing, etc...

Hmm and what do you mean by being objective? Didn't get that...

[Jazz_175]

Hey Aniss1001, I also transcribed two choruses of 'Not You Again' several years ago. Great Tune. However I was even impressed by the improvisation of the pianist that seems to use a lot of substitutions. In some places I cannot recognize the underlying harmony.

[jorgemg1984]

Hearing intervals is good but I usually hear them related to a "tonic" (tonal center or moment's chord) and not between the notes. Hearing degrees is much faster than hearing intervals between all notes... But everything comes with practice just don't give up

Rosenwinkel is very melodic and clear in his early records (his more recent stuff is harder to transcribe); no doubt easier to transcribe than Scofiled (although is melodic content is much more elaborate).

When i said objective I meant sometimes I don't "waste" a lot of time learning one specific phrase if it's too hard... some solos I just learned 95% of them and moved on

[Funster]

This thread has gone from strings, to pickups to transciptionsL

I've tried flatwounds more than once and each time ended up taking them off after a week. Just too dead for me. It probably has something to do with me using round wounds in my other styles for decades. I didn't like the half rounds either although I loved them on a Fender bass when I was into that.

My vote is for Thomastik-Infled Jazz DeBpp BB112. They're round wounds but really smooth and supple. Wonderful tone. The bass notes actually ring with nice sustain, unlike a flat wound.

[aniss1001]

Hearing intervals is good but I usually hear them related to a "tonic".......

Well I am far from giving up. I just recently had a MAJOR breakthrue and started being able to transcribe jazz NOT just easier stuff like Desmond or Chet Baker. Even Scofield and Rosenwinkel as I mentioned. Not least because I started using software.

And I don't see why Rosenwinkel's melodic content is more elaborate that Sco's? Is that a fact or just your opinion? Well that maybe so with some of Sco's more funky/bluesy stuff (which to many is the what they mainly associate with Sco) but his more jazzy ot experimental stuff too? Dunno..

And sorry again you lost me there: "Hearing degrees is much faster than hearing intervals between all notes". I don't know what that means? And how do I practice that?

Anyway my problem now is hearing harmonies / chords. I discovered recently that I CAN'T make of even simple intervals when the notes are played at the same time even though I find it easy when played separately. The software I used to use didn't have that option so I started using other software and am currently working on that. Seems like the logical next step..

[jorgemg1984]

Man this is going way off topic - we should continue this on PM not here on this thread. KR's stuuf is more elaborate IMHO, I would never say that as a fact

For hearing harmonies there lots of good softwares as you discovered Hearing degrees means if you have a Cmaj7 (or a music in C if you choose to hear related to the tonal center) chord for examples and the notes C D G you shoud hear 1 2 5 (ie every note related to C) and not a major second followed by a perfect fourth.

Please PM me if you have any more doubts.

[aniss1001]

Hey Aniss1001, I also transcribed two choruses of 'Not You Again' several years ago. Great Tune. However I was even impressed by the improvisation of the pianist that seems to use a lot of substitutions. In some places I cannot recognize the underlying harmony.

Well it's not my favorite tune. I like it though and his solo is very interesting. Kind of very traditional and at the same time odd (as he likes to be).

But I actually mainly chose that tune because (as you may have noticed) the chord progression is a EXACT ripoff of the standard "There will never be another you", which is a tune I have used as a case study and I wanted to see up close how Sco would approach this progession.

And as I said in my previous post my ear is not yet developed enough to hear chords so I wouldn't know about the subs used by the piano. I'll get there though

[aniss1001]

This thread has gone from strings, to pickups to transciptions

Man this is going way off topic

That's true but I personally don't see any problem in that at all. As long as the dialogue is contructive and with good vibes and all. But perhaps it bothers some people?

Besides I didn't really create this thread to get advice about strings to try. Simply to say: I tried flats and hate them. It's cool enough that people suggest strings, I'm sure someone will find it useful, but honestly it isn't to me because I can't get any of the ones mentioned.

I just checked most music shops in Cordoba today (not that hard since most are located within 2 blocks of the same street) and the ONLY .012 string I could find here (besides the Chromes) are Ernie Ball (the ones I used to use) and some Argentinean ones. Both nickel plated steel strings. That's it. And since I have no interest in trying another set of overpriced flats nor going back to .011 nor spending a lot of time/money on having some shipped here my choice is that simple: A or B.

Anyway I'm done with my questions for now Jorge, so thanks for a constructive off topic dialogue

[jorgemg1984]

I do like going off topic if that's the natural route of the thread but I understand most people don't like it. Going back to the topic you live in a terrible country for GAS ha ha

[Jazz_175]

Going back to the string topic, I noticed that many people like the Thomastik-Infeld, either the flatwound Jazz Swing or the Bebop.
I always wondered why these strings were made with so small gauge for the low A and E strings.
For example TI BB112 Light (plain 3rd) 12 16 20 28 36 50
versus D'Addario Jazz EJ21 12 16 24 32 42 52

Is it because jazz guitarists really don't need so strong bass notes, to avoid what often happens when listening to a jazz guitar, namely muddiness in the low range.