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I love it. The Sonntag's pup cost more than a Monarch. Gorgeous looking guitar...I'm not flattered by the tone though...something isn't working for me....too much reverb for one.
Originally Posted by Philco
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10-04-2013 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
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Monarch straight into a valve amp......Fender by the looks of it. Totally different angle. Quite a versatile instrument.
Go to 3.25 to hear a bit of early Benson.
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Does the Gibson L5 played by the same person sound "better?"
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For me it's a big 'yes' - the Peerless sounds harsher by comparison with a sort of nasal mid-range 'honk'. Originally Posted by Philco
Even though there's a world of difference between L5 types and 175 types, that is, 'traditional' carved vs. laminate designs, I think they both sound truly great in their own way. At the moment I'm bouncing between an L4 and a 175 I've got at home - I have to let one go at some point for financial reasons, but they've both got unique qualities that I really dig.
So I think the 'old' carved top designs like the L5, or D'A's sound completely different from the Benedetto types - despite them having basically the same materials - carved spruce top, ebony fingerboard etc. Which is really interesting - why? Maybe it's all the inlay and bling on the older guitars! lol!
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Also - re: 'inherent sound in the design' - I've heard a lot of Eastman's played and tonewise I've sorta been a bit.. 'meh', but I saw a demo vid of that 175 clone they've brought out (ar371) and it sounds really really good for a budget guitar - again this is only personal preference, so no disrespect intended to anyone who thinks different - but it's so interesting that if you closely stick to the recipe of the old designs, you'll get that character to the tone. Similarly, a friend recently bought a Japanese Tokai strat, copied off Fender's late 50's design - and it had 'the sound' as well. All those little variables and attention to detail, affecting the tone in a subtle but very real way.
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You mean this demo?
And don't forget this one.......although the high E string sounds like it needs some adjusting. Still it's a good basic tone to start with..
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Originally Posted by 3625
Agree re the L5 and 175 types. Having just sold an L5 and bought a 175.
These are the two styles I'm interested in. The laminate maple top and the solid carved spruce top.
I'm real happy with the 1952 175. The loudest guitar I've had.......but not loud in an acoustic flat top guitar way.....hard to describe. But that acoustic sound translates to a nice full bodied electric sound. Notes have that "round" thing behind them.
Couldn't get what I wanted out of the L5 although it was the best playing guitar I've ever owned.....but heavy.
I think the next solid spruce top for me has to have a floater and has to be light weight as possible.
Perhaps a Johnny Smith.
I'm going to have to do some saving!
But I reckon the floater has something to do with what I'm after.
But no more buying blind. This one I'm going to have to play before buying!
I played a couple when I was in Japan. The floaters sound very different. The two I played were both lively in the very top end. Very bright. I think that could be part of it. That "paper" top end thing combined with the fullness of the spruce top. No doubt a feedback nightmare.
But they are the two types I'm interested in.
Or a real D'A'. But that's out of the question of course.
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Someone mention Mr. Benson? Originally Posted by Philco
1973's Body Talk, from the CTI daze, it's still one of GB's finest albums.
With a typical stellar CTI supporting cast.
Mobutu - Percussion.
Frank Foster - Tenor Sax.
Harold Mabern - Electric Piano.
Earl Klugh - Guitar.
Ron Carter,Gary King - Bass.
Jack DeJohnette - Drums.
George Benson - Guitar.
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This is the one I remember seeing: Originally Posted by Philco
Both good representations of the guitar in their own way - the soundpure clip is obviously more hifi and better recorded so you can really put the sound of the guitar under the microscope. Based off those clips, and having owned a 59 single paf 175 (twenty years ago) - I think these ar371's are good guitars that have that 50's tone to them, a little bit harsher in tone I'd say than a Gibson, which you would expect given the price - but I imagine these guitars will sound great in say, 20 years time when the wood ages a bit.
I dig the idea of a relatively cheap, great sounding, great playing archtop - after all the original 175's were 'working man's guitars'. I bought a Godin 5th Ave (n.c./p90) when they first came out, more out of curiosity than anything, after watching Martijn Van Iterson clips lol! - man, that guitar was so close but not - they don't have that tinny harshness that a lot of the chinese and korean guitars have, but Robert Godin designed them tonally to sound more flat top'ish, because he hates the sound of real archtops! ahhhh!!! - so amplified I noticed the sound just didn't 'feel right' for jazz, whereas lots of folksy types like them instead. Anyway it's all fun
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Oh yeah, that Gabe Condon clip was cookin'! - but he'd have to be a hip player with a name that sounded like that, wouldn't he?
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Okay, I have a Cremona, and now have a Pisano AR680 incoming. I'll later advise which has the warmer tone...personally, I'm hoping the 680 will be the cat's meow, as I love the Pisano fretboards...but since this is my first Mahogany backed archtop, and Pisano other than several previous 880's, I've got my fingers crossed.
Even the Eastman rep says the 680 is the one to buy...standing by to stand by.
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I'm looking forward to hearing your comparison between the 880 and 680. Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
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I just sold an Eastman Pisano AR880CE(which is similar to the AR860CE),although I loved it. It is a much more acoustic sounding guitar when plugged in. It was a brighter tone than I expected, and I didn't have a real chance to try it out (it was a trade). I already have an AR805CE that covers that tonal range, for acoustic sounding chunk-chunk Swing rhythms.
I just picked up an Eastman AR372CE, with laminated top, that gives me a much more mellow electric Jazz tone, ala Joe Pass, Herb Ellis, etc..
Carved top archtops are great for sitting around the house playing, but if you're looking for a guitar you can perform with, a laminated top gives you more volume before it feeds back, and if you want top mounted humbuckers, a carved top just doesn't make sense.
If you look at some of the great jazz players, you will notice that a great many of them played Gibson ES165's and ES 175's, which is what Eastman's AR371's and AR372's are modeled after (and surpass by far). A bonus to all this is that laminated archtops are quite a bit less expensive than carved tops. The laminated Eastmans (which, in my opinion are the best choices),go for well under $1000 (new, with warranty!).
I play a show on average of 6 times a month with a Western Swing Band, and have been playing Eastmans for around 5 years with great results.
BTW, if you are looking for an acoustic archtop, the AR805CE 16" is louder and more toneful than the bigger AR810CE 17". Not sure why, maybe bracing?
Hope this helps with your choosing.
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I own a Contessa, and Renaissance, as well as a Custom Model PD-170... I have played the Pisano, the Del Rey and one of there 335 type axes, and I don't get that feeling a living breathing being with singing sustain from any Eastman I have played. So many people are singing the praises of Eastman and actually putting down Peerless in the process. One of the catch phrases is Eastman makes violins! Which is supposed to imply that a violin maker has an advantage. A. I don't recall China being at the forefront of violin making... and B. They are completely different animals. The Jazz guitar shop on the east coast (The one mentioned below) actually put down Peerless over the phone? He is supposed to be their Rep? With a Rep like that who needs enemy's? My suspicion is the Eastman has a better profit margin, and at the end of the day it's a guitar and subjective. If you really want to know take a friend and 5 or 6 similar guitars... tune them all, then put on a blindfold and have him pass you guitars in a random order from low end to high end... who knows? You might end up liking a Michael Kelly jazz box for 399 out the door? China is no longer the kiss of death it once was. Guild GAD is Chinese and I prefer their stuff to the American made Guild. The American stuff is nicer but not 1000 dollars nicer... You also might consider Ibanez George Benson Model?
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old thread folks
thanks, but a 680 pisano is the cats meow
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Don't know the status of the original poster but here is some input on the Cremona. I cannot speak about an Eastman so this will be a one sided commentary.
I just acquired a Peerless Cremona 17" from Guitars n Jazz in New Jersey. Excellent place to do buisness with.
The guitar is a piece of art work. Beautiful to look at a dream to play. This is my first archtop and I am totally enjoying it. In order to make the transition from a Les Paul I asked the guitar be set up with a lighter gauge flat wound than would have been originally installed. The action is excellent all up and down the neck. No buzz anywhere.
The tone is soft and has a bell like quality. No base thump or high end squeals. Also sounds equally good plugged in or acoustic with excellent projection and so far no feedback issues of any sort.
I've started to play and put it down a couple hours later not even noticing the time.
Excellent workmanship thruout.
Solid wood top, Ebony fretboard, pickguard and tail piece. I imagine the Imperial model may sound a touch softer by virtue of the Spruce versus Maple top but from the videos I could not tell the difference and to my taste the Cremona with the Tea sunburst finish is the nicest to look at.
The neck feels great and not much different than the L.P.
Before going with the Cremona I did have chances to try various Epiphones, Godins, and Ibanez, and a couple of Gibsons. To me, the Peerless sounds better than any of the first three I tried, and as good, if not slightly different than the Gibsons.
Please, this is just my personal take and not meant to be a critique of any of the other brands. They all had their good points and sound quality is largely subjective.
That said, the Cremona will not disapoint.
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