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It certainly is:
Sportsman Carr Amplifiers
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01-15-2012 08:53 AM
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A magnificent amp. I played one for a couple of hours at the Nashville Amp show. Great. Just great. albeit, very expensive.
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It sounds great. My question is why would people pay more for a new amp and not buy one of the multitude of vintage Ampeg, Fender, or Musicman amps and get real vintage tone? $2,100 is rather steep for an amp with its particular features. A VERY expensive 19 watts maxed out(16 clean according to reviews).
'Mike
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I guess i'd first have to be able to quantify "vintage" tone...a broken in speaker? Old wood in the cabinet?
It's kinda like asking why do people buy brand new houses instead of beautiful old fixer uppers. Because people are people...
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I get that. But I am not talking about a fixer upper amp. I mean fully functioning vintage amps in good-excellent condition. My 67 Ampeg looks amazing for its age, a few light scuffs and scratches, and oozes vintage tone. We all know there are plenty of Fender amps in excellent condition availa ble for less than the amps trying to give that vintage tone...Thats my point.
I see the allure of buying new. I try to buy based on tone and feel when it comes to instruments and not on whether or not something is new/old or what the head stock says.
'Mike
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Yes - boutique amps can achieve prices that are hard to understand. And you have several other builders that build amps with very good reputation like the Gries 35 that sells an head for 1350$ (others like Tube-Tone or Vintage Sound Amps sell similar heads in the 1700$ range). Or even a Mojo or Allen kit can be had for around 1000$, any tech will build one for 200$ / 300$ I think.
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You mentioned Music Man...I guess it's just difficult for me to accept that "vintage tone" is something that comes from the 1970s or later...
Originally Posted by Jazzman301
But the thing is, "vintage tone" doesn't really exist. When that stuff that is "vintage" today was new and current production...guitar players were bemoaning the crap sound it provided compared to the gear from 20 years earlier.
What there is -- is GAS. GAS for new gear and GAS for old gear that's new to the player. That, coupled to the superstitious belief that "You get what you pay for," is why there are $2100 16 watt amps and a cult of "vintage" gear.
Its a fun diversion from practice and working on technique.
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I agree the price is steep, but just about everything these days is expensive...
If you google a search on this amp, you'll find that just about everyone loves the sound of this amp if you're into BF Princeton/BF Deluxe clean to slightly pushed sounds, & addresses most of the liabilities the vintage amps are known for:
Scooped mids - via a wide range mid control
Flatulent bass
Age/reliability issues when dealing with vintage amps
Too splashy/surf reverb
Steve Carr is well known for building a very high quality product, & standing behind them.
I've never played a Sportsman, but I used to own a Carr Rambler, which was also exceptional at clean jazz tones. The build quality & sounds were off the hook. I sold it because I was searching for different & dirtier amp sounds, & other amps were more in my wheelhouse at that time.
I wish I had the foresight to keep the Rambler, but I couldn't afford to keep an amp I wasn't using then.
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Well, it HAS to sound good at that price right? I never played one and I assume it's really awesome but there are other cheaper alternatives that should be as good like second hand amps or other boutique builders.
Music Man amps are not probably vintage for a lot of people cjm but they sound quite good and are usually cheap (500€ / 600€ in Europe). And designed by Leo
I agree with you 100% I bet people said blackface amps were not good and the old tweed and brownface were much better when blackface amps came out
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I've met few vintage amps that didn't need the fixing up, or if the fixing up has been done, they don't cost close to what the boutiqers charge.
But again, people are people. I'd rather have a 64 impala than a new camaro, but that's me.
Plus I'm still not sold on the idea of "vintage tone"...an amp either gets a sound I want or not.
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And even if the amp need those fixes they are easy and cheap for a tech to perform usually - taming the bass or the reverb on blackface amps? Google you will help you a lot on that.
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I agree Mr.B. I buy based on what I hear not names or whether something is vintage or not. My Ampeg get the tone that I like so its a solid value for me. My Cube 80xl also sounds decent. It has to give me the sound I want period. I am not a brand snob/whore. Either its good or its not.
'Mike
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Its all in what people are into and looking for out of their amp. No denying the quality of the Carr stuff. Its great gear but to me extremely pricey. I also think that I can find something that sounds just as good for less.
'Mike
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I'm getting close to springing for a Carr Mercury on the used market, probably for about $1600.
I'd love a nice old blackface, but I'd be worried about reliability, repairs, durability--not to mention I'm not sure $1600 will get me much of a bf. Maybe a decent Princeton.
I think I can get similar or slightly better tone from the Carr, plus it can be attenuated down to 1 watt or 1/2 watt...to get really world-class tube tone at volumes that are practical for recording or for people with neighbors, like me. Can't get that on a vintage bf.
I just think it will be a better, more reliable (built like a tank), more flexible (attenuation) and more practical fit for me. At least that's my line of thinking, fwiw.
Though I do fully understand the joy and magnificence of a nice old blackface Princeton or Vibrolux!
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Yes, that's one of the reasons to go for a new amp that is based on the old ones - sort of the best of both worlds. But there are some good fender clones made for quite less money than the Carr - it feels like they have a great but overpriced product.
Some people do have GAS for vintage high capacitance cables like Hendrix and SRV used.
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I don't have a dog in the race for or against Carr, and I don't care who buys what. If some guy says he played a bunch of amps and the Carr - or whatever - was worth the money to him, I don't bat an eyelash.
But - call me crazy - I prefer to buy what I'm looking for for less rather than more. Other people are that way too, and we trade notes in forums about who we think is overpriced and who we think is a good value. So I like to hear from people and find out why they think Carrs - or whatever - are worth the money or what they thought would have been cheaper and just as good or better and no more expensive. That that doesn't seem unreasonable or like it should be too hard to understand.
HighSpeed
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Nice shiny crisp tone. Sounds great to me.
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Many great points here. I can't really see how anyone can disagree with any of these posts. They all seem to say . . . "hey man, buy what's right for you". But, people seem to have differing motivational hot buttons. Also, correctly pointed out, while a BF Princeton reverb is a great amp to compare the Carr Sportsman, the $1,300 price point is not realistic . . . at least not for one that's in excellent condition. Possibly a silver face 1970, which still has the BF circuitry, in excellent condition for somewhere between $1,200 and $1,500 is more easily found. Also, gotta agree with Mr. B on the quest for "vintage tone". Talk about variables?? WOW!!!
I've got some great vintage Fender amps. But, if I'm gigging 3 or more nights per week, I want brand new dependability, top quality and suitable to my own needs/wants. Too many people buy a black face Fender amp, just because it's a black face Fender amp. Then, they struggle to get "their" sound. Instead, settling for its sound.
I'm very fortunate to live relatively close by to Andy Fuchs shop. I could drive up to see Andy, chat with him about what I wanted. He would build me something specific to his perception of what I wanted, based upon our conversation, of what I was looking for. If, when I went there to pick up my amp, it wasn't what I wanted . . . he would gladly continue to tweak it, change components if necessary, until I was a happy camper.
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I agree new it's best for the road - but there lots of amp builders that can build you a good blackface replica and voice it the way you want it for less than the Carr price. I assume it's a great amp but I think it's pure marketing saying "we resolved the bass and reverb on blackface amps" like they discovered the end of oil dependence...
I have heard nothing but great things about Fuchs. Vic Juris highly endorses his amps for jazz and that man knows gear. His amps are expensive but it seems he took a personal approach based on blackface / dumble type of amps. If I lived near him I would go there for sure for him to build me something according to my needs - and knowing you can always go back and change some details it's awesome (DO IT!)
I think the greatest example of what we are talking about here is Dumble amps that sell for ridiculous prices. Once someone asked Larry Carlton about Dumble and he said something like "it's an upgraded Twin Reverb". Good marketing does the rest - just look to the huge amount of builders that sell Dumble clones at ridiculous prices...
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From what I have heard, they are dropdead bullet-proof, and a pro I know says the notes just fly out of the cabinet. He told me he owns two, and they'll probably outlast him. Dennis
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I always heard good things about them - Jim Hall has one. A friend of mine that lived in the US for some time said may jazzmaster ultralight reminded him of Walter Woods. But they are expensive also...
I have heard a double bass player using one some months ago and sounded unbeliavable, much better than GK or Mark Bass.
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I am reviving this thread as I just purchased a used Carr Sportsman amp. I will be posting more in the near furture. BTW I looked at the Carr amps with 6v6 power tubes specifically. 3 Models, Skylark, Mercury V and Sportsman. (Order of increasing wattage)
My frame of reference is that I own a 1965 Fender Princeton nonreverb, 1966 Fender Deluxe reverb (nonreverb), and a limited editon PRRI with 12" speaker upgrade, Eminence Cannabis Rex (Sweetwater).
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A friend here in London just purchased a Carr Sportsman (12" speaker version).
Heard it in action twice last week: Tom using it with a bass/drums trio (no PA) and with Gilad Hekselman borrowing it (ripping through it with lots of effects).
It's a fantastic sounding amp for jazz. Despite the Princeton-esque power rating, it's got bags of clean headroom. I've caught myself looking at them online several times in recent days!
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I recently got one at a great price used, it's very nice.... it also costs a lot of money to make a handwired amp with good parts
as far as a jazz amp.... I'm not sure, it works pretty well, but jazz is not the first thing i think when i hear it... it loves clean strat tones... the mid control is great, so you can get both blackface and tweed type tones out of it...
I prefer solid state or 6L6 tubes for a real, old school jazz tone, but I do like the Sportsman quite a bit
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Just picked up a used Carr Sportsman. I never played one, but I got it for a killer deal I figured it was worth the risk and I could aways sell it and recoup my money. Initial impressions in just looking it over is that the build quality is unlike many other amps I have seen. From the heavy duty handle, to the power and speaker cords, thought went into every component. Noticeably lighter than my Fender DRRI as well.... For those who are unfamiliar with the model it is basically a boutique Princeton reverb with a 12", Mid control, and Master Volume. I have a rehearsal tonight, gig Friday, and recital Sunday so I will get a chance to put it through its paces and report back.
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