The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #76
    A flat five aint no jive!! Thanks for posting Goldmine solo!! The Sons leader joined a band named Chicago . When I was starting out watching guys play good music on arch tops led me to check out jazz. Earlier Hag shows him playing an Gibson L-7 I think.

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  3. #77

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    Rich Williams and Kerry Livgren of Kansas also played the L6-S.

  4. #78

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    I owned a '74 L6 Midnight Special for years that I gave to my son about 10 years back. Great guitar for every style of music. I still play it at every chance.

  5. #79

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    I recall that Santana used the L6S for a while then discarded it, referring to some kind of problem. Might have been reliability, but I can't quite recall. It was in a GP interview.

    In case there's still any confusion, the L5S was a 24 3/4 scale solid body. It had L5 in the name, I think, because it had very fancy trim. Otherwise, it had nothing in common with the L5.

    The L6S was a completely different guitar from the L5S.

    The sunburst L5S is a beautiful looking guitar, as pretty as any I've seen.

    It was not used by a great many well known players. Pat, of course, who I think used it because it would tolerate his heavy strings. Paul Simon played a black one in One Trick Pony. Boz Scaggs used it. One of the Rolling Stones, maybe Ron Wood, used one. I don't know why it wasn't more popular. The sound, arguably, was a little brighter or more brittle sounding than the Les Paul, possibly because it is maple, not mahogany, but I don't really know.

  6. #80

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    I suspect a large difference in sound between a humbucker equipped L5-S and a Les Paul is the fact the neck pickup on the L5-S is a bit closer to the bridge pickup. Both are 22 fret instruments, but in photos, you can see the neck pickup is closer to where one would expect on a 24 fret instrument. Makes a huge difference.

    The woods used make a difference too.

  7. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by whiskey02
    “No jazz tones”? What are you talking about...
    Guess I'm with Jads then. Pop music just ain't what it used to be!

  8. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by entresz
    I suspect a large difference in sound between a humbucker equipped L5-S and a Les Paul is the fact the neck pickup on the L5-S is a bit closer to the bridge pickup. Both are 22 fret instruments, but in photos, you can see the neck pickup is closer to where one would expect on a 24 fret instrument. Makes a huge difference.

    The woods used make a difference too.
    I played the L5S for years and don't recall ever noticing that, but you're absolutely correct.

    The harmonic is over the edge of the pickup cover closest to the nut. It is not directly over the pole pieces.

    I checked two other guitars, a Comins GCS-1 and a Yamaha Pacifica 012. In both cases the harmonic is directly over the pole pieces.

    I would assume, for an open string, you'll get more fundamental if the harmonic is right over the polepiece. But, for a fretted string, how does it affect the sound? The octave harmonic won't be over the pole piece for a fretted string.

    Did they screw up the sound of the guitar so they could have that decorative pointy thing at the bridge end of the fingerboard?

  9. #83

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    I don't think the 24 fret harmonic necessarily matters too much - as you said, once you're playing on other frets any "magic" from the harmonic being over the pickup no longer applies.

    I think it's just there's a surprising difference in tone between having the pickup after the 22nd fret (like on a Les Paul) or having it after the 24th fret (like the L6-S and L5-S). It's like the neck pickup always has this hint of bridge pickup twang in it. Nothing can dial it out. You can cut the tops to make it dark, but it still won't sound as round or full.

    Dare I say, yes - I think the cupids bow in the neck of the L5-S actually really compromises the sound of the neck pickup!

  10. #84

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    I've wondered if the idea is to have the pickup as close as possible to the exact middle of the vibrating length of string. It seems to me, that would get maximum fundamental. But, that's the 12th fret, so you can't do it there. The usual solution is where the 24th fret would be. That gives the second octave. It may be true that the closer you are to the point where the string is divided into 4 equal parts, the better, at least, for the open string. The idea that it's the best place to sense the lowest possible harmonic.

    So, there's some open string magic in that. But, suppose you finger a string at the first fret. The node for the second harmonic moves towards the bridge, where the 25th fret would be -- and therefore towards the polepieces of the neck pickup on the L5S. The node would then be better (in this theory) on the L5S than the Les Paul for an F. Except, the LP's pickup would still be closer to the node at the 12th fret. At the 13th fret, the situation changes. The first harmonic is now at the position of the 25th fret, which is closer to the L5S's polepices.

    But, I played the L5S for years (two different ones) and never noticed any of this.

  11. #85

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    That logic does make sense. I wonder how guitars with a 20 fret neck compare? My observation is they seem to sound warmer/fatter than guitars with the 22 fret neck. So many variables at play though - it's hard to find a single explanation for why one instrument sounds different to another.

    I had two Gibson L6-Ss- while I liked them both very much, I found it hard to get a nice sound from the neck pickup. It's like they always had this slight 'sheen' of bridge pickup in the tone. It wasn't noticeable on the low register but became more apparent in the mid-high register of the instrument. They were really nice playing guitars though.

    I've replaced them both with a Les Paul Recording. The LP has a beautifully round/full neck pickup tone, but the playablity of the L6-S was better!

  12. #86

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    I gotta say, it's grown on me since 2011.

  13. #87

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    Glenn Phillips, from Atlanta (or Athens) has played heavily modified L-6s for most of his career. His tone is not exactly what I would call “warm,” more like an ice pick in your ears.


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  14. #88

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    I had one for quite a few years and ended up selling it several months ago during my COVID guitar purge.

    The thing about these guitars is the electronics; specifically the tone controls and pickup selector switch, are significantly different than normal guitars. There have both a 'normal' (high cut) tone control AND a mid cut tone control (more of an upper mid control really), and these controls seem somewhat interactive. The Super Humbucking pickups are bright compared to a normal Gibson-type 'bucker; in fact you might think of them as somewhat 'hi-fi'. This means to get 'normal humbucker' tones from the L6S you MUST use both of these tone controls and find the sweet spot for the tones you're looking for. Running them all the way open or just turning down the treble doesn't really give you usable tones.

    My own feeling was, rather than having the two tone controls go from 0-10, it would have been better to have these with a detent in the middle and numbering them from 0 - 5 in each direction. Setting each tone control at the mid point ("5") gives a humbucking sound that is closer to what most people would expect and allows you then think more in terms of cut and boost. This is a big part of why the guitar never proved that popular, especially with players who played mostly clean.

    The neck profile is also really different. It's quite small and round at the nut, almost like a Fender Jazz Bass but then gets a lot larger as it goes up; sort of like a really stretched out cone. A very odd profile for a guitar neck. Also the wide flat Gibson frets made upper fret access feel very crowded past the 20th fret. I had mine refretted using smaller frets past the 18th which made the playability up there much better.

    All that being said they are very nice guitars capable of a huge range of tones, but getting them are about as non-intuitive as any guitar could be.
    The Gibson L6-S-l6-sb-jpg
    The Gibson L6-S-l6-sfretwire1-jpg

  15. #89

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    I never really got on with mine but it was my first gibson. I put a Dual Sound in the bridge but to me it still sounded the same. Never liked the weird OOP sounds.

  16. #90

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    I don't think being under the theoretical 24th fret has any magic, but the distance from the bridge does make a difference. There is always a difference in sound between the neck and bridge pickup, and the closer the pickup is to the bridge, the closer it gets to being a "bridge pickup". Further from the bridge gives a darker tone, regardless of which theoretical fret the pickup might be under.

  17. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    I don't think being under the theoretical 24th fret has any magic, but the distance from the bridge does make a difference. There is always a difference in sound between the neck and bridge pickup, and the closer the pickup is to the bridge, the closer it gets to being a "bridge pickup". Further from the bridge gives a darker tone, regardless of which theoretical fret the pickup might be under.
    Interesting point. I just did a quick experiment that may be relevant. Using the neck pickup I fretted a high E at the 12th fret and plucked the string all along the vibrating length. That is, I plucked it from the 13th fret to the bridge, moving maybe a quarter inch at a time. The warmest sound was where the vibrating length of string was divided in half.

    Not the same as being able to move the pickup. But I recall, back in the day, using the D'Armond monkey on a stick, I always got the warmest sound closest to the fingerboard. Unsurprising. But I never checked where the pickup sounded best for notes above the 12th fret. That guitar didn't have a cutaway, so I didn't play much up there anyway.

  18. #92

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    When a string is plucked near the center, it gives more fundamental frequencies. Plucking near the end of the string gives a thinner, treblier tone. The further from the center, the more overtones are heard. There is no dispute about that, that I know of, certainly not from me. But as a guitar string is fretted, the center point moves. The string doesn't have to be plucked directly in the center to get fundamentals, just somewhere near the center. When I tune, I try to pluck near the center of the string length to avoid having overtones confuse the tuner and my ear. When playing, I most often pluck near the end of the fingerboard. Ideally, I suppose I should move my hand as I fret the strings, keeping the pick in the center of the unfretted string. That's how one plays harmonics, but it's more trouble than I'm willing to take. I just keep it near the neck pickup. Of course, not everyone plays the neck pickup, nor anywhere near it. Some play as close to the bridge as they can. I can't argue with them, but I don't like to listen to them.

  19. #93

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    When I play my L6-S, I usually pluck ahead of the neck pickup, over the fretboard between the 20th and 24th frets. I know this is an unconventional approach, but it creates very interesting tones.

  20. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by zcostilla
    I need some help finding an expert.

    I have been using my nephew’s solid body for the last several months because it was collecting dust on the floor of my in-law’s (his grandparents) home, unprotected and gathering dust. It is rough but the first time I picked it up it felt “right” and very instinctive. It had an unusually wide lower bout and the contours were like nothing I’ve ever seen from Gibson. So I suspected it was a fake from the beginning, and a guy who has quite a collection said he’s never seen anything like it before from Gibson, so I ended up peeling off the vinyl logo (already peeling off, and another HUGE reason I have had doubts) and taking it home, with his permission.

    So the other day I was reading an article and I saw THIS GUITAR, except the photo had a stoptail and rotary switch. It was a Bill Lawrence designed Gibson L6-S. But a little digging helped me see there are three different models, including the Deluxe with the same string-through body plate on this. A little reading and this guitar was designed to have a wide tonal range, and used custom pickups, also designed by Bill Lawrence.

    Bill Lawrence Website

    1976 Gibson L-6S Deluxe

    It has a “MADE IN U.S.A.” stamp on the back of the headstock, and the volute is correct. The serial number is 656895, it it is somewhat faint.

    Obviously the pickups, bridge, and from the photos I’ve seen the tuners are all changed out. So either someone got an Ibanez copy and did a horrible job at modding it, or they a total idiot and ruined a very unique instrument to get close to a Les Paul clone. I am still wanting to buy it off my nephew and fix it up, or restore it for him if he won’t sell it (he’s undecided), but I don’t know if it’s authentic or not. And if not, how do I tell an Ibanez from some other manufacturer?

    FULL ALBUM: Real or Fake Gibson L6-S Deluxe? - Album on Imgur
    i got myself a 1978 ebony. 42 years old and she still rocks. looks good and no modifications. i wanted this guitar to stay original. one issue is a snapped the screw off on the top strap lock. had to drill and grove the screw head to get it out of the body. i put the top strap lock behind the neck joint instead as the strap made it top heavy... after putting the strap pin on the back of the heel joint no issues with top heavy. that is the only mod on it. all original PUPS and it has 6 distinct tones going on with the 3 volumes etc. this guitar is seriously hated for no good reason.

    i can tell you to know if it's a gibson or a "knockoff" would be the routing. gibson routed them a specific way. this guitar is one of the most copied gibson models. if you search google the L6S can be found in many versions by many of the 'copy' companies out there including ibanez, encore, stagg, greco, crestwood, cmi, el maya, carlo robelli, ventura (ibanez), penco, astoria, etc.
    if your guitar says: "speedfire" than it is a "speedfire" not ibanez. although the next identical guitar that came out of the same factory may even have gotten the "ibanez" logo.ibanez was not an individual and independent factory. the company that made these guitars was called hoshino gakki and one of their brands was ibanez. hoshino also made greco, antoria etc.
    these guitars were in most cases 100% equal -exept for the name- to the guitars that had an ibanez logo. gibson licensed these for some reason and later they became lawsuit models...???
    i don't get it so i can't explain how the L6S became one of gibson's most copied guitars if you ask me...

    the rout under the pick guard and some small tiny details can tell you if it's a real gibson. you have to have a good eye and not all of the pictures you'll see online will show evidence of the details
    you need to see or know about to identify it. i have been driven mad about this particular guitar as there are many subtly mods and many versions. it came out in 1973 and ended in 1981. so about 10 years of various versions and knockoffs. gibson in my honest opinion jumped a shark by not controlling this model and actually making more money and taking control of such a cool looking guitar. why people rag on it makes no sense and if you look online there are hundreds of them out there and many of them are copies...

    if this model sucked so bad why did it sell so many in various versions by various manufacturers for over 10 years? because it was classic gibson cool that's why. and for the sound it puts out i can tell you it is recorded on many great hit songs and i've used it in the studio for 40 years and i use it live. people always want to touch it, look at it or play it when they see it. all the bad mouthing it gets but i say it's one of the best guitars i own and i own many les paul's, flying v's, explorers, sg's, firebirds, etc. i a gibson fan, sure.

    The Gibson L6-S-img_20210525_201306-jpg

  21. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by flying-v-guy
    i got myself a 1978 ebony. 42 years old and she still rocks. looks good and no modifications. i wanted this guitar to stay original. one issue is a snapped the screw off on the top strap lock. had to drill and grove the screw head to get it out of the body. i put the top strap lock behind the neck joint instead as the strap made it top heavy... after putting the strap pin on the back of the heel joint no issues with top heavy. that is the only mod on it. all original PUPS and it has 6 distinct tones going on with the 3 volumes etc. this guitar is seriously hated for no good reason.

    i can tell you to know if it's a gibson or a "knockoff" would be the routing. gibson routed them a specific way. this guitar is one of the most copied gibson models. if you search google the L6S can be found in many versions by many of the 'copy' companies out there including ibanez, encore, stagg, greco, crestwood, cmi, el maya, carlo robelli, ventura (ibanez), penco, astoria, etc.
    if your guitar says: "speedfire" than it is a "speedfire" not ibanez. although the next identical guitar that came out of the same factory may even have gotten the "ibanez" logo.ibanez was not an individual and independent factory. the company that made these guitars was called hoshino gakki and one of their brands was ibanez. hoshino also made greco, antoria etc.
    these guitars were in most cases 100% equal -exept for the name- to the guitars that had an ibanez logo. gibson licensed these for some reason and later they became lawsuit models...???
    i don't get it so i can't explain how the L6S became one of gibson's most copied guitars if you ask me...

    the rout under the pick guard and some small tiny details can tell you if it's a real gibson. you have to have a good eye and not all of the pictures you'll see online will show evidence of the details
    you need to see or know about to identify it. i have been driven mad about this particular guitar as there are many subtly mods and many versions. it came out in 1973 and ended in 1981. so about 10 years of various versions and knockoffs. gibson in my honest opinion jumped a shark by not controlling this model and actually making more money and taking control of such a cool looking guitar. why people rag on it makes no sense and if you look online there are hundreds of them out there and many of them are copies...

    if this model sucked so bad why did it sell so many in various versions by various manufacturers for over 10 years? because it was classic gibson cool that's why. and for the sound it puts out i can tell you it is recorded on many great hit songs and i've used it in the studio for 40 years and i use it live. people always want to touch it, look at it or play it when they see it. all the bad mouthing it gets but i say it's one of the best guitars i own and i own many les paul's, flying v's, explorers, sg's, firebirds, etc. i a gibson fan, sure.

    The Gibson L6-S-img_20210525_201306-jpg