Phosphor bronze strings for archtop

[gcb]

My L5 studio has a floating BJB floating pickup at the neck position and a piezo under the bridge, each one with its individual output jack and volume control.

I ordered this guitar through Gibson Custom Direct in 2002 (a program that lasted three o four years only and allowed members to order a one of a kind guitar to their specs).

So far I mostly used the floating pickup and did not take enough advantage of the piezo, as the guitar has no tone controls, and the piezo produces some harshnesh at the high frecuencies as well as strong feedback response in situations were the volume has to be even slightly increased.

The guitar has a tap tuned top. This fact is indicated in a yellow stamp signed by Mr. James Hutchins that can be seen trough the treble side f hole. (The usual orange label is also there and can be seen through the bass side f-hole).

As the guitar produces a beautiful, powerful, round acoustic sound unplugged, I ordered today an LR Baggs box from Stewmac to help me tweak a little the sound and make justice to the acoustic properties of the instrument when amplified.

In the same vein, I am considering also swtching from TI roundwound strings to phosphor bronze acoustic guitar strings.

So I would appreciate any feedback as to whether the BJB magnetic pickup would catch the phosphor bronze strings; also if someone has experience with phosphor bronze acoustic guitar strings in an archtop and finally any experience with the Baggs DI Acoustic box.

My idea is to run the BJB through the Twin amp, the piezo to the Baggs DI box and from there to a solid state amp, and switch from one to the other as needed.

Thanks in advance for your attention and comments. I really learn a lot in this forum.

[gcb]

Here´s a pic

[RonD]

I always found phosphor bronze to be really bright. I haven't tried them yet, but I'm very intrigued by the D'Addario flat tops. Maybe someone here has tried them.
Flat Tops

[gcb]

Ron D thanks for the link. The 012-053 semi polished DA flat might be worth trying.

[oldane]

I have a BJB PU lying somewhere which I bough for next to nothing 20 years ago, but I have never got around to use it. If my memory serves me right, it doesn't have adjustable pole pieces. With phosphor bronze strings the output from the BJB will be unbalanced between wound and unwound strings (unwound strings louder), and to my ears, the sound of bronze strings is not as attractive as that of nickel or stainless steel.

For acoustic playing, phosphor bronze sounds great. I have tried both D'A round wound and flattops. Both are good, the flattops being a little bit in the direction of flatwounds, but still closer to roundwounds than flat wounds. BTW, I think genuine flatwounds in bronze are available from one or two manufacturers, but don't expect to find them in your local instrument shop.

Personally, I have never been able to get good sounds out of a "do-it-all" guitar - too many compromizes for my taste - so I have ended up with separate guitars for acoustic and electric playing. That enables me to set each instrument up for the optimum sound for its intended use. For amplified playing, I use laminated or solid body guitars with set pickups (not floating), TI 13-53 flatwounds, action around 2½mm and only slight neck relief. For acoustic rhythm playing , I use round wound phosphor bronze 13-56, action around 4½mm and a little more relief. For rhythm playing, when possible, I prefer to mike the guitar instead of using a piezo PU - I never liked the sound of them (yes, I know I'm old fashioned here).

BTW, on one of my archtops, the strings tend to have a slight sympathetic high frequency buzz at the metal tailpiece, so I have bought a set of TI bronze 13-56, which has silky thread spun around the string at the bullet end which hopefully will bring an end to that. I haven't put them on yet, so I have yet to hear how they sound. I don't think that buzz is heard by anyone but myself, but you know how it is when a sound begins to annoy you.

[fws6]

I also find phosphor bronze too bright, and hated the flattops - But my best friend / excellent jazz player swears by them

So it is just one of those things you cannot learn on a message board. You can only do this the old fashioned way, go to the store and buy a couple of different sets and over time try em out

I stuck with plain old martin M150 on the acoustics, and for the ones that have floaters on them I prefer EJ22 013s on guitars that need heavy tension, TI bebop 012s on really responsive instruments

[Frank67]

I have a Godin Kingpin II that i always had a difficult relationship with and never really bonded to it (although i generally love their guitars). It just doesn't have that fat, smooth jazztone. It really changed when i finally accepted that this instrument does not sound like one that it doesn't pretend to be. Then i changed from flatwounds to phosphor bronze strings and really liked the change. It plays better, feels better and sounds better - and is an alternative to my other archtops. Sure brighter but still really nice, a bit gypsy jazz like and accoustically much better than with flats

[MaxT]

BTW, on one of my archtops, the strings tend to have a slight sympathetic high frequency buzz at the metal tailpiece, so I have bought a set of TI bronze 13-56, which has silky thread spun around the string at the bullet end which hopefully will bring an end to that. I haven't put them on yet, so I have yet to hear how they sound. I don't think that buzz is heard by anyone but myself, but you know how it is when a sound begins to annoy you.

Actually, I think you may be right about that high end buzz..A sort of Sibilant sound?
I have this Ibanez, first guitar I've owned with a metal saddle and that's the sound I detect with it. Not the same as edginess with new strings.

[gcb]

Personally, I have never been able to get good sounds out of a "do-it-all" 
 guitar - too many compromizes for my taste - so I have ended up with separate 
 guitars for acoustic and electric playing. That enables me to set each 
 instrument up for the optimum sound for its intended use. For amplified 
playing,  I use laminated or solid body guitars with set pickups (not floating), 
TI 13-53  flatwounds, action around 2½mm and only slight neck relief. For 
acoustic rhythm  playing , I use round wound phosphor bronze 13-56, action 
around 4½mm and a  little more relief. For rhythm playing, when possible, I 
prefer to mike the  guitar instead of using a piezo PU - I never liked the sound 
of them (yes, I  know I'm old fashioned here).
 
BTW, on one of my 
archtops, the strings  tend to have a slight sympathetic high frequency buzz at 
the metal tailpiece, so  I have bought a set of TI bronze 13-56, which has silky 
thread spun around the  string at the bullet end which hopefully will bring an 
end to that. I haven't  put them on yet, so I have yet to hear how they sound. I 
don't think that buzz  is heard by anyone but myself, but you know how it is 
when a sound begins to  annoy you. 

Oldane, you are completely right. I use this guitar mainly as an acoustic, so I will set it up to optimize that aspect. Thanks for the set up tips and the string data. Eliminate buzzing, feedback and harshness are the factors I have to concentrate on now. The magnetic BJB however should be ready for action when needed, becouse sometimes it gets cumbersome and even risky to carry two guitars. But as you said, for electric work it is better to use set in pickups.

[MaxT]

I always found phosphor bronze to be really bright. I haven't tried them yet, but I'm very intrigued by the D'Addario flat tops. Maybe someone here has tried them.
Flat Tops

Ron,
I use those Flat Tops on most of my guitars, 13 to 56 gauge. I get a brightness without too much string noise, and even with magnetic pickups I use the adjustor pole screws to balance the two wire strings.
I am pretty happy with them, though to be open-minded I have just put Gibson l-5 nickel rounds on my Ibanez, just to see how it goes. Haven't tried it out in the band practise yet.
Just to emphasize that with the Flat Tops, I am not aiming at a typical jazz sound, but one with a bit more openness and brightness. The strings seem to do that.

[gcb]

EJ22 013s 

Fws6 what brand are these?

[gcb]

Then i changed from flatwounds to phosphor bronze strings and really liked 
the change. It plays better, feels better and sounds better - and is an 
alternative to my other archtops 

Franklearns I'll do the same. Thanks for the advice. It confirms Oldane´s opinion concerning "do it all" guitars.

Will get some phospor bronze strings and see what happens.

[rpguitar]

I had a BJB on a 1980 L-5CN acoustic. It was not optimized for bronze strings and doesn't have pole pieces. Kind of a shame that Bruce Bolen (designer) and/or Gibson didn't factor that in.

Interestingly, the old DeArmond FHC and Guitar Mike models - the less expensive ones with no pole pieces - are actually balanced for bronze strings. I can only guess that the products were aimed at guys who had acoustic archtops in the first place, and bronze strings were the standard. These pickups sound unbalanced with nickel strings. So it's kind of a win-win.

Also, the older DA models don't require any pickguard cut-out, unlike the more costly 1000 and 1100 Rhythm Chief pickups. Also a good thing.

[gcb]

Thanks RPguitar, very useful info. This forum is populated by very knowleadgeable and generous people. With what I have recollected so far I have new ideas to experiment in the right direction.

[oldane]

Actually, I think you may be right about that high end buzz..A sort of Sibilant sound?

Yes, a high pitched buzz when certain notes are played (thus sympathetic).

BTW, this afternoon I have put on the TI strings with the silk wrap at the ball end and the unwanted sound is gone. To my ears, the sound of the TI strings is a bit more balanced than the D'Addario strings, but I'll have to hear what they sound like when they are played in.

[kambor]

If you like the acoustic sound of your guitar with phospor strings, then do the right thing and buy a dpa microphone. My teacher brought one to class and he gigs with it regularly, and it's quite pleased. Its very transparent, and you can always mix in some piezo in case you want to brighten it up a little.

Also, if you're going to board from the piezo, you really need a preamp there, not just a di-box. I know many folks are using the cheap art mp-1 tube ones. They aren't a twin reverb, but hey, it's like 100 bucks or something like that.

[gcb]

Thanks Kambor.

[spiral]

For those of you wanting the volume of Phosphor/Bronze but don't like the squeak or brightness, try Elixirs. They are smoother because of the coating and the thicker coating version (Polyweb) kills some of the undesirable ping IMO. They are almost like acoustic flatwounds. I use the Nanoweb version (thinner coating) and i find them to be a good balance of smooth tone and volume.

I've tried other coated strings—D'Addario EXP, Helix, and Alchemy—but they were always too zingy or harsh. This might be because they are made for a flattop audience. There are many flattop players that hate Elixirs because they think they sound dead, but i think for an archtop they are perfectly suited.

As an alternative, especially if you want to use a traditional magnetic pickup, try some Ernie Ball Coated Strings. They have a "Not Even Slinky" set that is 12-56 that almost mirrors the gauge of Chrome 13's and they sound very nice acoustically. They don't have quite the volume or bass energy of Bronze, but they come very close, are coated, and still work with your pickup. The stock set sucks because it has a very thick, unwound G, so i purchase a pack of 6 coated 26w in place of the stock G.

[kamlapati]

Welcome fellow L-5 guy. I have a '77 L-5CN which currently has a Lollar Johnny Smith PU.

I used 85/15 medium bronze strings on it for years and liked it. It definitely puts out a somewhat acoustic sound through the wire. The JS PU does have adjustable poles, which helps. You will probably find the string balance is really bad with acoustic strings, with the wound G being weak and the high E and B dominating.

Lately I've tried GHS White Bronze, which are acoustic strings with improved magnetic balance. They are not as good as 85/15 for full acoustic, but are marginally better balanced and smoother for electric output.

[MaxT]

Yes, a high pitched buzz when certain notes are played (thus sympathetic).

BTW, this afternoon I have put on the TI strings with the silk wrap at the ball end and the unwanted sound is gone. To my ears, the sound of the TI strings is a bit more balanced than the D'Addario strings, but I'll have to hear what they sound like when they are played in.

Oldane, I'd be interested to learn what your string gauge is, in comparison to the D'Addario 13-56 I'm using.

[rpguitar]

FWIW, I just put up a video on my YouTube channel with my blond L-5 acoustic using GHS Vintage Bronze strings (12-54) and the DeArmond Guitar Mike. The signal is going into my Clarus head, then direct to the computer.

The DA pickup tends to really even out the tone, even to the extent where the dynamic range is pretty much squashed. It makes everything warm and covers mistakes! But I'm not always fond of those qualities. The sound and feel from my player's perspective is much more lively and acoustic.

Anyway, it's "Berimbau" and it's the latest upload.

[oldane]

Oldane, I'd be interested to learn what your string gauge is, in comparison to the D'Addario 13-56 I'm using.

Thomastik-Infeld SB113, gauge 13-57. Bronze (not phosphor bronze), round wound.

But like others have said, suggestions are only a starting point, and opinions and personal taste differ. You will have to try out a number of different brands and sets to find out what suits you best. The same applies to the setup of the guitar. To test out the varied opinions you could, for example, start a new thread where you ask whether a guitar neck should be straight or have relief. It may well be like opening a can of worms.

[cjm]

It may well be like opening a can of worms.

When I was a young child, I fished with bait. I preferred grasshoppers, but would use worms when grasshoppers were not available. However, it was my practice to carry either in a paper sack rather than a can, and I refuse to acknowledge the idiom or metaphor of "opening a can of worms."

[MaxT]

Thomastik-Infeld SB113, gauge 13-57. Bronze (not phosphor bronze), round wound.

Thanks for that info. Currently experimenting with the Gibson nickel rounds. Trying out all the likely candidates is, well, a bit like guesswork.

[spiral]

Anyway, it's "Berimbau" and it's the latest upload.

Roger, i really love the sound of this! It probably doesn't sound great as a rhythm pickup but as fingerstyle / lead i love that tone: really focused and a little muted. This was a surprised to me as i always thought the bronze strings would just make everything sound anemic. Thanks for sharing and great playing BTW. I love your videos.