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  1. #1

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    ..
    Last edited by spiral; 02-06-2016 at 07:06 PM.

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Last summer I saw a really sharp hand made arch top on eBay, looked JUST like an Eastman 810ce 5th Anniversary model, it had no name on the headstock. I bought it and posted on the Ibanez Collector's World Forum about it. Another member there piped up and said, Hey Mike I think that isn't a Eastman, but a Yunzhi. He too had bought one on eBay from someone and really loved it, still has it. I then started looking at Yunzhi's site and for a long time was reluctant to pull the trigger, but then contacted them and Ms. Lora wrote back to me, very literate and soft spoken person, Ms. Lora. I was able to arrange using PayPal with them which made me feel more protected. 10 weeks later I had my guitar, a real beauty.

    http://www.ibanezcollectors.com/foru...c,24876.0.html

    I had another fellow contact me some time back, his name is George Glover, he'd seen my thread on ICW and wrote, and I gave him the same positive reviews on my experiences with Yunzhi. He went ahead and custom ordered a 7 string. Here is a thread on the Ibanez Collectors World Forum where George talks about his experience and on Page 3 of the thread he has pictures posted of the 7 string Yunzhi is making for him. He too is working via Ms. Lora and is very happy.

    http://www.ibanezcollectors.com/foru...c,26116.0.html

    I am sure you are very excited, maybe a little jittery, that you went with someone in CHINA that you don't know. A few of the feelings I had when I did my deal with them. Relax man, you're in very capable hands. Get a good book or a short term girl friend to keep you busy the next 10 weeks or so.
    .
    Last edited by BigMikeinNJ; 09-07-2011 at 04:00 PM.

  4. #3

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    I wonder if that's the company that builds A Mano guitars.

  5. #4

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    John

    It very likely is. I was speaking with Pete here about that very company. They essentially are using someone like Yunzhi who is building batches of guitars for him... I saw the site, sort of liked the D'Aquisto Solo inspired sound holes.

    From my experience, you tell Yunzhi what you want, send them photos or detailed sketches and they will do their best, at a VERY reasonable price point. Honest hard working people.

  6. #5

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    I know this factory very well, the owner is one of the Eastman founders, but years ago he decided to open his own business, and took some of the workers and wood with him. They do carve tops/backs by hands, they do have 20+ years old wood, but honestly - there's no real archtop building knowledge. Guitars are beautifully finished, but carving is absolutely wrong. One of my friends, a dealer, ordered 10 guitars from them 2 years ago, and still didn't sell any. I'm in good contact with one of their team, and here's the pictures of their last creations, that she sent me.




  7. #6

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    A few pictures of Yunzhi workshop and their last design.




  8. #7

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    MGI

    I find your comments about not knowing about carving most interesting in light of the TWO Yunzhi's I've had. I'll have to tell that to my YZ23 BigMike Special, which I find especially sweet playing and sounding. Based on what you said about Yunzhi breaking off from Eastman and going it's own way: Eastman spent the last 50 years making violins, cellos and violas before venturing into more "popular" instruments like arch top guitars and other hollowbodys.

    I will say this, I sold an Eastman T146smd (with SD Seth Lovers) and the first Yunzhi (the 810ce 5th Anniversary clone) to a dealer and he loves them. BUT he still has them in his store. Know why ?? People are afraid to buy something that is Chinese made. And in the case of many of the Yunzhi models that made it to America, it doesn't say GIBSON on the headstock and people are worried if they buy it now and later want something different will have trouble selling "an unknown brand" guitar...

    A real shame. Though being almost 65 I have seen this problem in the past, back in the mid-60s when I saw my first Ibanez guitar at an international trade show in Chicago at McCormick Place (the original one). I liked it so much I found a dealer on the FAR south side importing them. Look where Ibanez took itself in the last 50 years...

    Chinese hand carved instruments are the new paradigm. Go find a couple of Eastmans to play and decide for yourself folks (remember the Yunzhi company has essentially offered you the same instruments without the dealer network and the price markups along the way), plus the option to have them do your dream guitar to your specs.
    Last edited by BigMikeinNJ; 09-07-2011 at 05:30 PM.

  9. #8

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    Hey spiral,

    I am in the process of having my guitar built by Yunzhi right now. They have been excellent to work with. After following Mike's Yunzhi build on the Ibanez forums I took the plunge. I have no worries whatsoever about this company of their guitars. You must very specific with pictures to show exactly what you want English is not their first language). Be very specific and cordial and you will have a great experience. Mike has posted my thread up above and I am posting all of the build pics and info that I get. Check it out and good luck. I would love to see a build forum if you d get a guitar from them!

    Thanks,
    George

  10. #9

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    @ GGlover & BigMikeInNJ The thread you are talking about is what i linked to in my post. That is how i realized mike posts on this board too: i recognized his Pizano guitar photo.

    @ BigMikeInNJ: I'm not jittery or any of those other adjectives. I am just being a choosy consumer. I've wasted big $$ on guitars i didn't know anything about from reputable makers, so my lack of spending control isn't an issue. At the same time, my favorite guitar is the Chinese-made Loar so i don't really have any globalization hangups either. It is enough money that i don't want to throw it in the wind, but not enough that i will lose my house / pants / cats.

    @ MGI: Thanks for the detail and cool photos. Can you explain what you think is wrong with the carving? As for your dealer friend, aren't they not selling because it is such a niche market and the crowd that buys them tend to be very traditional? ie. stick to brands they know? I like that no one knows the name; you get more for the money. I loved Harmony guitars until eBay/the internet happened.

  11. #10

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    Spiral, look on the pictures - cutaway/horn area of the top and the back, and you'll see.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by MGI View Post
    Spiral, look on the pictures - cutaway/horn area of the top and the back, and you'll see.
    Seems like a bad template issue, not necessarily the plate carving. I've seen their more traditional shapes and they look fine:


    You are talking about the body shape?

  13. #12

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    No, I'm talking about top and back carve in the horn/cutaway area. Don't you see it???

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by MGI View Post
    No, I'm talking about top and back carve in the horn/cutaway area. Don't you see it???
    Not really. There is no reflection so i can't see how it is carved. The body shape is pretty "fascinating" though. What are you seeing?

  15. #14

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    This:



    Ask any luthier, is it correct carving or not.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by MGI View Post
    Ask any luthier, is it correct carving or not.
    got it. Though you were talking about the blonde. It's funny that I just had a conversation about this last month. A guy came to look at my L7 and was pointing out that Dan Koentopp (local luthier) told him about carving the plate and then doing the cutout. The Gibson L7 (reissue) is carved with the cutaway like picture above. Looks like Eastmans are that way too. Don't know if that is bad or good but it sounds like a strength issue.

    What's your take on it?
    Last edited by spiral; 09-08-2011 at 12:33 AM.

  17. #16

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    It make upper part of the top non-working. The top (and back) can't vibrate freely with such a carve. And, of course, it lead to the loss of volume and projection. Tone still could be sweet, but the overall sound will be kinda chocked. Also, they practically don't have any recurve, and it's big no-no in archtops building.

  18. #17

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    MGI,

    This is in no way meant to be calling you out, but what experience do you have analyzing photos of archtops? I think I saw that you're an amateur luthier? I also am an amateur luthier (studied with Tom Ribbecke in Healdsburg CA) and I do not see what you are talking about. Could it be that the light is just tricking you? Have you ever held a Yunzhi guitar in your hands? They certainly appear to have recurve from all of the pics I have seen (this is never shown well in photos unless you are trying to show it).

    Here are a few photos which look identical
    Benedetto 16B and Hopkins Grand Marquis

    Ah Hell my photos won't load! I am new to the forum and clicked the link below to attach files- they are less than 100Kb and less than 620 by 280?

    Please tell me how to load photos and I will put them up soon.

    Thanks

  19. #18

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    I likewise am not calling you out MGI but having owned 3 Eastmans and 2 Yunzhi's I have not experienced the problems you described. Here's a back shot of the Yunzhi & Eastman John Pisano models... see anything ??



    here's the Yunzhi 810ce 5th Anniversary clone, all I ever played it was acoustic and it's a real sweet sounding guitar - I've had my share of awesome arch tops so I think my ears know what good tone is.



    By the way I also repeat my thanks for the great photos you have posted - very nice seeing people at work designing and building guitars - by hand.


  20. #19

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    Mike,

    how did you post your pics?

  21. #20

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    BigMike, the picture of your Yunzhi won't show anything, because it's natural color. More visible on bursts, like it's visible on that brown guitar's top. . And look on your last picture - it's correct carve of the back.
    gglover - sure you are an amateur, but I build archtops for 25+ years. And yes, I've held Yunzhi guitars in my hands, many of them. Maybe, you didn't read my post, where I stated, that I know this company very well.

  22. #21

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    Here's an example of correct carving:



  23. #22

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    Ok think I got the pics up. These pics have the exact same glare patterns on them. The first is a Benedetto Bravo (notice the glare is exactly the same in every aspect), the second a Hopkins Monarch (2 very well respected builders.)




    I think this just has to do with the angle of the lighting on a curved surface. If we can't trust Benedetto's carving than what should we be comparing things too??

    @ MGI- Thanks for the reply. I see you did visit Yunzhi and therefore do have first hand knowledge of their practices, and appreciate your input. But these pics tell the same story?
    Last edited by gglover; 09-08-2011 at 01:22 PM.

  24. #23

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    here are 2 more shots of a Benedetto Bravo with the same carved patterns.


  25. #24

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    The picture of Benedetto shows the reflection of the ceiling lamp.
    I held many Benedettos in my hands, the carving is absolutely correct.
    Hopkins Monarch better, than Yunzhi, on Yunzhi the carve is much more pronounced. It looks like a sausage on the horn.

  26. #25

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    Thanks for the info. I understand the idea and have seen a mix of right and wrong in guitars from luthiers whom i respect.

    Other thoughts? Clips? Photos?

  27. #26

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    Greetings:I have two yunzhi archtops.I'm not a luithier not even a good jazz guitar player.But I love both of them.I got lucky and picked both of them up at a very good price on the bay.A little fret touch up on one,slight adjustment on the other and two guitars that are to me worth two or three times what I gave for them.With care my sons will have a fine guitar when I can no longer enjoy them. I could not ask for a better guitar . Anyway just my two cents.

  28. #27

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    Update: I've seen quite a few, under different names, under theirs. Inconsistent, problems with neck angles (sometimes the bridge height is right, sometimes bottoming out too close to the top), sometimes sharp fret ends, sometimes ok, but the electronics are consistently wonky, like really cheap pots, buzzing, wiring fit for toys, and grounding/hot wires in reverse. All of these things are in evidence in instruments as recent as early 2012. Many of them could be remedied by costly attention by the dealer at the recipient end (if you're a luthier with good wiring chops, you can wind up with a very nice instrument. If not, it will cost you.) And they do seem very nice, but watch out. They are still in what seems like the beta testing phase and it's a crap shoot if you're looking for an instrument to seriously play. There are graduating and tuning issues that can result in some wolf notes and weak notes, but in others they are strong all the way through. Maybe they have different carvers, maybe they don't tap tune, who knows. One thing for sure, they are lacking in basic QC. If you want eye candy, they will stand most favourably next to an Eastman. If you want to play it, have a luthier at this end.
    David
    Last edited by TH; 01-09-2012 at 08:20 AM.

  29. #28

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    Welcome Jazzman,

    If you contacted Yunzhi try working with Ms Lora, she is the best... If you actually get to having something built you will be pleasantly surprised to see if you deal DIRECT with them, not on eBay, you are still going to get a great hand carved
    arch top guitar of stunning woods for between $1100.00 to $1200.00 DELIVERED EMS... In other words what I paid over two years ago for my John Pisano copy. Tough to beat that.

    I was recently contacted by Yunzhi's general manager asking me what they could do to improve business, I wrote them back telling them the only short fall most people would complain about is the electronics in the guitars. I told him going with well made and recognized brands of pickups like Seymour Duncan, Gibson, the hand wound custom Kent Armstrong (the ones HE makes) and using top quality wire and tone and volume pots would REALLY boost their sales. To stick with making really gorgeous hand carved jazz guitar of solid woods, they don't need to sell cheap or laminated guitars, there are already plenty of them out there.

    Welcome again, let us know what you end up buying, or are you just here to bash Yunzhi ??I think if you used the word YUNZHI as a search argument here you would a plethora of threads that talk about custom built guitar members here have had made by Yunzhi. And to address TruthHertz's statement: a wholesaler can order a batch of guitars from Yunzhi and specify the quality of woods used, the inlay, headstock shape, you name it. I've met my share of fellows via eBay who did just that, ordered fairly cheap guitars from Yunzhi, like a dozen or so of them and resold them in stores in NYC and on eBay. So yes there can be cheap Yunzhi built instruments out there, but they were built on specs a jobber or reseller specified. If you go with a higher end Yunzhi built guitar you will get a guitar every bit as good if not better than a comparable Eastman. By the way my most recent score was a 2009 Eastman T186mx in white. Carved maple top, carved mahogany back 335 style guitar with a small maple block only under the bridge and stop tailpiece. Can't wait to upgrade the PUPS to SD Seth Lover 4 wires... It's got great acoustic tone, heck I'm probably like most of you and practice unplugged anyway, yes ??
    Last edited by BigMikeinNJ; 01-11-2014 at 12:01 PM.

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzmann.0001usa View Post
    <snip>
    - I only speak for myself, but you need to fix your font. Extra large, cursive, italic, color... umm.. no. It's annoying. My good friend Mike has a good reason for a large, bold font.

    - I've bought 5 guitars from Yunzhi in the last 2.5 years. I've just gotten a quote for number 6. Prices have been consistent and have not gone up. Only one that has been more expensive was their mandoguitar and that cost quite a bit more to build.

    - I don't consider Yunzhi high risk. They are a big company and they are in business to sell guitars.

    - Sorry, but I don't think you know what you're talking about.
    Last edited by Spook410; 01-11-2014 at 09:03 PM.

  31. #30

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    Well. That escalated quickly.

  32. #31

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    Jazzman
    You're new here and you came here trying to promote another builder/distributor of guitars by trash talking about Yunzhi


    THEY'VE GOTTENA SWOLLEN HEAD, AND HAVE Raised their prices: so now, it's back tofinding someone else, who makes affordable jazz boxes..



    Too many of us here have purchased and are still in communication with Yunzhi to believe you. Instead of trashing one company with a well developed reputation why not just promote the products of this other company on it's own merits. IF your friend MUSSO is so great just let their products speak for themselves.

    No one here has trash talked but you. And Jehu, greetings from New Jersey. Let us see what response Jazz has for me now.

    Best in the New Year to you all

    Mike

  33. #32

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    Jazzman, you sound like somebody who has a grudge with Yunzhi and is only using this forum to put them down. I do not own any of their guitars and have no contact with them but I have only read positive things about them. Maybe what you're saying is even true, I don't know but it's hard to get past your dissing to see if any of what your saying is true. Maybe you can give us a concrete example (specific guitar, other issues) of bad dealings that YOU personally have experienced?

  34. #33

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    Welcome aboard jazzman! We needed some more complete jerks around here who resurrect dead threads and insult members who've essentially been nothing but helpful around here.

    Good to have you here, you remind me of how much I appreciate posters like BigMike and Spook and Alain and everybody else that isn't you.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  35. #34

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    Where is the knob to turn down the WTF?


    1. Yolanda Team, who Lora works for, is a sourcing partner. They are the intermediary for you to order from the factory. If you wanted to have 10,000 tuners made with your face as the display, they could probably also source that.
    2. Musoo Guitars is also a sourcing partner. They sell the exact same guitars.
    3. The point of jazzman's post was that Yunzhi has raised the prices and that Yunzhi is less affordable. Let's do a quick comparison with the same carved quad-port archtop:



    I'm actually a troll, so I was pleased to read how many other midgets were on this board.

  36. #35

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    I'm 6'4".

    Your "midget" remarks are offensive. Consider yourself reported.

    And just so you know, my main jazzbox was made right here in the USA...may that warm your xenophobic heart.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  37. #36

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    I like the hot font action myself.
    And when it comes to midgets, well, I side with Randy Newman.
    6"4"?! So you make big guitars look small. Like this guy:
    Attached Images Attached Images Yunzhi guitars-danny_cedrone-jpg 
    Last edited by Hammertone; 01-13-2014 at 08:27 PM.
    "Somebody get me out of this chair." - BOB WILLS
    Hammertone is a registered Hofnerologist.

  38. #37

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    Welcome Back Jazz, oops I mean Constsantine.

    I think I saw my first user get deleted here today. Hmmm.

    Anyway I think we've beat this horse to death.
    Good luck to your friend Musso.

    This is a great forum and I appreciate all that I have learned here. I don't always agree with all of you but doggone it's fun hanging out here. My best to all of you.

    Mike

  39. #38

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    Yes.. trolls. They might be disappointed at how acclimated we've become and how little intellectual bandwidth we expend on their rants.

    Only thing I don't get is the tirade about buying US guitars. Based on the apparent lack of language skills and thinking we have a VAT, they appear to reside somewhere other than the states.

  40. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigMikeinNJ View Post
    Welcome Back Jazz, oops I mean Constsantine.

    I think I saw my first user get deleted here today. Hmmm.

    Anyway I think we've beat this horse to death.
    Good luck to your friend Musso.

    This is a great forum and I appreciate all that I have learned here. I don't always agree with all of you but doggone it's fun hanging out here. My best to all of you.

    Mike
    Constantine = Yawn.

    Changing the subject - Nice Super 400 there Big Mike. What year is she?
    "You've got to be in the sun to feel the sun. It's that way with music too." - Sidney Bechet

  41. #40

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    Oooh, I'm a "punk fag" too. Oh, constatine, what a sad human being you are. Good luck with your anger issues...hopefully you can work on your intolerance too. So sad.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  42. #41

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    That was a 1969, no volute. Nice guitar but damn really big... LOL. I'm far more comfortable with a Byrdland or John Pisano, got that for myself when I turned 60, but it was a lesson learned, just too big, I play sitting down.

  43. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigMikeinNJ View Post
    That was a 1969, no volute. Nice guitar but damn really big... LOL. I'm far more comfortable with a Byrdland or John Pisano, got that for myself when I turned 60, but it was a lesson learned, just too big, I play sitting down.
    It looks gorgeous...any more photos?
    "You've got to be in the sun to feel the sun. It's that way with music too." - Sidney Bechet

  44. #43

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    yawn....

  45. #44

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    This guy's hilarious.

    My real name is in my sig, bro. Only one hiding is you...behind a third moniker, even. Thank goodness the community college computer lab has multiple computers, huh?
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  46. #45

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    I think that's the fourth time now, isn't it?
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  47. #46

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    Jeez Mark.. that post can't have been up for more than an hour or so. You're on it. Thanks for being a good Mod.

  48. #47

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    Wow fella's it's just about a guitar! I don't care for certain things either, that people almost get irrational about. How about we just let it go, and try to glean some useful information about the gear and try to not personalize it so much.
    Thanks, and let's move onward.

  49. #48

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    LOL
    Tick Tock on the Puke of Earl...
    Man musta found one of those 24 hour coffee houses with free wi-fry
    Hope you get some sleep, coming up with all that sh*t must have kept you up all night.


  50. #49

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    I like the bowl of stupid wallpaper.
    Last edited by Hammertone; 01-15-2014 at 08:35 PM.
    "Somebody get me out of this chair." - BOB WILLS
    Hammertone is a registered Hofnerologist.

  51. #50
    I have done a lot of research. I think. I came to the conclusion that 90% of interested parties love these guitars. The 10% who don't seem to be people who haven't stuck their necks out and bought one. The guitars look gorgeous, the contact at Beijing Yunzhi Hengwei Cocould not have been more helpful. I sent sketches and numerous emails. All were answered promptly and with courtesy. I can think of a few western companies who could take a lesson or two here.

    So for £700 I have stuck my neck out and paid my £350 deposit. They will send me photographs at critical stages of manufacture so I can watch the work progress. I think this is first class customer service. As for electronics, I have told them about the adverse reviews I have read and can only hope that they have taken this on board and maybe by now Sept 2014 they have sorted out there QA and have found a better supplier of parts.

    I have attached a design detail sketch here and they will do all the detailing and customising within the budget which I think is great.
    Attached Images Attached Images Yunzhi guitars-jazz-guitar-design3-jpg