The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1
    I am wondering if anyone has had success with resonator style guitars, biscuit or otherwise, in jazz? They seem very popular in blues, but not so much in jazz?

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Oscar Aleman was known to have used a National Tri-Cone during his career.

    Although not a jazz player, Natalicio Lima, of Los Indios Tabajaras, used a Brazilian made Del Vecchio resophonic guitar to good effect in the 60s and 70s.

  4. #3

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    Saw this on the Kurt Rosenwinkel forum I while back. Sounds cool if you ask me, but I would not use it as my main guitar, as an effect maybe

  5. #4

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    I had an album when I was a kid with Earl Klugh and Gearge Benson and I am sure Earl played a resonator. It is what I would call smooth jazz but he sounded great. The album was called Collaboration I think. I think you could do some really interesting things with a resonator in a jazz context.

  6. #5

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    I think it'd be really cool. I've thought about doing it, but I don't have one. One nice thing about it is that it'll set you apart from most jazz players. It harkens back to a tradition, but at the same time it shows that you aren't just another suicidal lemming with a tobacco-burst archtop top playong muffled museum pieces in the dusty corner of a restaurant.
    Last edited by Stackabones; 08-30-2011 at 11:37 AM.

  7. #6

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    Resurrecting this old thread because I'm about to pull the trigger on nice National steel single cone resonator. Here in NYC increasing number of Gypsy/Trad/Swing players are using them for busking or acoustic gigs.

    In my situation, I play many gigs where part of it is kind of like marching brass band walking through the crowd, followed by the full stage performance. I do have a tenor banjo which i could and sometimes do use, but I can't solo on it really and it's not suitable for many songs we play.

    I think a resonator guitar would be the answer for those sort of gigs, and of course busking in the parks in NYC is only legally safe on acoustic instruments, where resonator would be the loudest option for guitarist.

    Anybody care to comment on this?

  8. #7

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    I have a Dobro 33H in chrome-plated bell brass and it is LOUD. Be aware that if you are doing un-amplified singing while playing the resonator, and matching your vocal output to the perceived level of your instrument, the guitar is going to be WAY louder than you think it is. There's a good reason why Son House did not croon, but bellowed; resonators project. I strongly suggest you record yourself and put a mic about 15' out there to get the mix. I think you'll be surprised.
    Best of luck.

  9. #8

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  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by citizenk74
    I have a Dobro 33H in chrome-plated bell brass and it is LOUD. Be aware that if you are doing un-amplified singing while playing the resonator, and matching your vocal output to the perceived level of your instrument, the guitar is going to be WAY louder than you think it is. There's a good reason why Son House did not croon, but bellowed; resonators project. I strongly suggest you record yourself and put a mic about 15' out there to get the mix. I think you'll be surprised.
    Best of luck.
    Oh no worries there, I don't sing! I'm usually a band guitarist(I do backups though), or play a duo with a horn player/singer. I mean I can and did sing lead once in a while, it's just ... Once I recorded myself singing and playing I Can't Give You Anything But Love, I listened back and wooo, that was pretty bad! Jazz with a weak voice and a Russian accent- bad idea

  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
    Resurrecting this old thread because I'm about to pull the trigger on nice National steel single cone resonator. Here in NYC increasing number of Gypsy/Trad/Swing players are using them for busking or acoustic gigs.

    In my situation, I play many gigs where part of it is kind of like marching brass band walking through the crowd, followed by the full stage performance. I do have a tenor banjo which i could and sometimes do use, but I can't solo on it really and it's not suitable for many songs we play.

    I think a resonator guitar would be the answer for those sort of gigs, and of course busking in the parks in NYC is only legally safe on acoustic instruments, where resonator would be the loudest option for guitarist.

    Anybody care to comment on this?
    I think it would be cool, however according to my subsequent research, there may be other guitars that are technically louder. Those big body acoustic archtops with heavy gage strings are beasts. Not easy to play( more like a stand up bass) and may sound like a broom on a floor, but they could be played loud, in a way that would leave a resonator cone bottomed out. I think you can even get arch tops in carbon fiber these days. This could possibly why the archtops was preferred in big band jazz rhythm sections(playing primarily quarter notes) over resonators, because the guitar was more of rhythm instrument, whereas in blues there were more leads so sustain was preferred.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmoothOperator
    I think it would be cool, however according to my subsequent research, there may be other guitars that are technically louder. Those big body acoustic archtops with heavy gage strings are beasts. Not easy to play( more like a stand up bass) and may sound like a broom on a floor, but they could be played loud, in a way that would leave a resonator cone bottomed out. I think you can even get arch tops in carbon fiber these days. This could possibly why the archtops was preferred in big band jazz rhythm sections(playing primarily quarter notes) over resonators, because the guitar was more of rhythm instrument, whereas in blues there were more leads so sustain was preferred.
    I seriously doubt there is any acoustic archtop that can compete with reso in pure volume and projection. The tone is another matter, of course. I would be happy to play 18' Stromberg, it would probably cut through just fine, but I'm not spending $10.000 on a guitar to take it out for a busking in Central Park, or some party gig with drunken people stumble upon it. Unfortunately(actually no complaints) that's the reality for me as a musician. But... I can score a National for under $2000, and that's a good value for me. Let's see if I like the sound of it for what I do.

  13. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
    I seriously doubt there is any acoustic archtop that can compete with reso in pure volume and projection. The tone is another matter, of course. I would be happy to play 18' Stromberg, it would probably cut through just fine, but I'm not spending $10.000 on a guitar to take it out for a busking in Central Park, or some party gig with drunken people stumble upon it. Unfortunately(actually no complaints) that's the reality for me as a musician. But... I can score a National for under $2000, and that's a good value for me. Let's see if I like the sound of it for what I do.
    This is mostly speculation on my part, since I've not seen a real archtops in action, and have only read about their application, but it wouldn't be an apples to apples comparison, because if you take into account that you can hit the arch top much harder, you'll see that you can get a percussive attack that can't be replicated on a resonator due to cone collapse.

  14. #13
    Here is a YouTube video where the set up is discussed. Also, my impression is that the guitar function more like a guiro than a harmony instrument in those settings.


  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmoothOperator
    This is mostly speculation on my part, since I've not seen a real archtops in action, and have only read about their application, but it wouldn't be an apples to apples comparison, because if you take into account that you can hit the arch top much harder, you'll see that you can get a percussive attack that can't be replicated on a resonator due to cone collapse.
    You can "hit" a resonator as hard as you like and the cone, or cones, will not collapse. They also have a very percussive attack and some are very loud.
    Last edited by Slide; 07-25-2016 at 09:02 AM.

  16. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Slide
    You can "hit" a resonator as hard as you like and the cone, or cones, will not collapse. They also have a very percussive attack and some are very loud.
    Sure they will some cones will collapse under over tensioned strings. I think it depends on the type of reso, biscuit, spider, tri-cone. Biscuit probably give the most percussive sound.

  17. #16

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    in the Eddie Lang duos w/Lonnie Johnson, Johnson played a National resonator I believe.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmoothOperator
    Sure they will some cones will collapse under over tensioned strings. I think it depends on the type of reso, biscuit, spider, tri-cone. Biscuit probably give the most percussive sound.
    I've been playing them for 30 years and never had one collapse. None of my friends who play resonators have had one collapse. I play single cone (biscuit), and tri-cone. If you slam your fist or palm of your hand downward toward the body you could probably collapse one, but strumming won't do it. I have very heavy strings on most of mine with no problems.

  19. #18

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    hey hep, reso's can be pretty heavy...gonna be a tough drag marchin through central park!! haha..also can be "heavy" in the midrange volume, but short on nuance..also have to worry about neck shapes..many are v's..

    i'd think a nice gypsy guitar would be an alternative, to look into...can be loud but lighter..and more familiar feeling (and sounding)..and some nice ones to be had for well under a grand $$

    luck


    cheers

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by citizenk74
    I have a Dobro 33H in chrome-plated bell brass and it is LOUD. ... There's a good reason why Son House did not croon,
    haha...classic line!!

    love son house

    hadda add vid



    cheers
    Last edited by neatomic; 07-25-2016 at 07:03 PM. Reason: add-

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by neatomic
    hey hep, reso's can be pretty heavy...gonna be a tough drag marchin through central park!! haha..also can be "heavy" in the midrange volume, but short on nuance..also have to worry about neck shapes..many are v's..

    i'd think a nice gypsy guitar would be an alternative, to look into...can be loud but lighter..and more familiar feeling (and sounding)..and some nice ones to be had for well under a grand $$

    luck


    cheers
    I have one of those under a grand $$ Gitanes. Tbh, I hate it haha! It's the most uncomfortable guitar I ever played. It's loud for sure, but nowhere near a reso anyway. Even some upscale GJ guitars I played I didn't like in terms of playbility. In my experience, their projection power is overrated too. At a jam, I witnessed a guy with a dreadnought matched and maybe even exceeded the volume of any of us with Gypsy guitars (it was a circle jerk Gypsy jam)

    Actually, the steel National single cone is under 8 pounds, the weight of an average tele, so not that bad really!

    The only other guitar I have considered as alternative loud acoustic is a nice big archtop, but $$ for it I dont have. If anyone knows where I can get those old acoustic cannons like Epiphone, Gibson, Stromberg, D'Angelico for around $1500, please do let me know

  22. #21

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    seen this brand new epi masterbilt arch century deluxe?...under a grand$..there's also an f-hole version

    Resonator Guitars in Jazz-p_centdlx-vn1-e81539ff2000382fd9ecd88439392710-jpg

    ps-"(it was a circle jerk Gypsy jam)"--glad i missed it!! haha

    cheers

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by neatomic
    seen this brand new epi masterbilt arch century deluxe?...under a grand$..there's also an f-hole version

    Resonator Guitars in Jazz-p_centdlx-vn1-e81539ff2000382fd9ecd88439392710-jpg

    ps-"(it was a circle jerk Gypsy jam)"--glad i missed it!! haha

    cheers
    Wow, that looks great! It's probably better than my Gitane for sure, as a cheap acoustic... But it's not US made instrument, is it? Don't wanna sound like a snob, but I'm Donald Trump when it comes to buying guitars, hahah I make an exception for Japan though... I'm gonna check this one out, ok.

    PS. yeah circle jerk Gypsy jazz jam is what my non guitar playing friends call it- bunch of dudes sitting in a circle taking turns soloing, oblivious to what's going on around them. I mean, I like it, it is what it is

  24. #23

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  25. #24

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  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
    I would be happy to play 18' Stromberg, it would probably cut through just fine, ....
    Some players, Barry Galbraith among them, found that the 17" Stromberg actually projected better. The 19" Master 400 was more bassy and to their ears more mushy so it didn't cut quite as well. But of course, there may be differencies between individual instruments of the same model and the players technique also means a lot ("it's in the fingers"). Freddie Greens 19" Master 300 cut just fine and in some recordings it sounds almost banjo like metallic, not very mellow and not very bassy. The high action of Greens guitars combined with him seriously digging in also helps the big sound on the way. One won't get that big sound with the string action set low, no matter how big the guitar is. The strings can't vibrate with a wide amplitude because they will slap against the fretboard instead of vibrating freely. That slap sound is effective for electric chicken pinckin' but won't work for acoustic big band work.
    Last edited by oldane; 01-26-2017 at 08:35 AM.