Eastman T185, T186, Epiphone Sheraton 2 or Gibson ES335

[Bobsynth]

Looking for a versatile guitar for oldies rock, country and jazz standards. The Gibson ES335 is what I started to research but found 3 lower cost alternatives. I've narrowed it down to these:

Eastman T185MX, T186MX
Gibson ES 335,
Epiphone Sheraton 2

I'm just not sure I will be happy with them if they can't come close to the
335. Money is a problem. I guest the question comes down to whether the 335 is worth 4 times the Epiphone. Is it 4 times better? And is the 335 worth 40% more than the Eastmans, which I've never played? Are the Eastmans worth 3 times more than the Epiphone? Any thoughts would be helpful.

Bob H.

[mongrel]

Used Epiphone Dot made in Korea. Replace factory pickups with humbucker sized P-90's. Should be versatile enough to do all three styles and would be cheaper than those you listed.

[carlescountry]

And Eastman El Rey3 semihollow? I'm waiting one of these guitars.

[rio]

The Eastman will be a different sounding guitar from the other 2 guitars, because it is not built with laminate wood. If I remember correctly, there is also no center block, so the guitar will not respond in the same way. It will probably be more articulate and have a hint of acoustic sound in the tone and response. They are really well made guitars and I love the necks, they are very playable.

I had a Sheraton II about 15 years ago, and it was ok. The gibson is not worth 4 times more because they inflate their prices, but it will have better hardware. Putting good pickups and pots in the Sheraton will bring the two guitars much closer together, so I would skip the Gibson unless you find a nice older one, in which case the price might start to be worth it.

[djelley]

Have you considered the Ibanez AS103? I love the ArtCore Customs...

[mambosun]

Don't forget to try those guitars with a overdive / disto stomp box just to check how easily they pick up larsen, if compared to a solid body.
Les paul clone or Tele might be good options as well.

[Pothcra]

I've gone through the exact same questioning, and I was also worried about the ES335, having heard that the quality is now very poor, or at least not consistent. I've considered the Eastmans, and a few others, but deep down inside I knew I wanted an ES335. I finally got a good deal on a cherry ES335 dot from 2000, slightly under 2K. Well, the second I played it I knew I was taking it. It sounds amazing and there is nothing bad I can say about it. It is what I wanted. Might not be 4 times better then the Epiphone, but even if its just twice better, it is still twice better! I say be patient.

[bmw2002]

I went the Epiphone Sheraton II route. Bought one (Korean model) off of Craig's List for $400, added two Gibson Classic '57 humbuckers, and had a fantastic sounding and playing guitar. Total investment about $600.

[Bobsynth]

Thanks for all the great input.
Buying a Sheraton 2 and putting in the Gibson electronics sounds like a very smart move.
I have just become aware of the ElRey ER3. From what I've seen and heard it seems great. My whole problem with the Eastmans is I can't find any dealers nearby, to try one. I will have to trek up to NY, 250 miles, to try one. I am really hesitant about spending that much money without trying one. If I found one at the right price i would buy one, knowing I could get most of my money back, on a resale, if I didn't really like it. My experience has shown me that you stumble accross the guitar that is right for you irregardless of the price. When you play it, you will know. I have 4 Dean Jazz Stylists, and they all play and sound different. I have tried at least 3 different PRS Semi hollow customs and they all play and sound different. I did buy an Ibanez Artcore a few years ago. It seemed like a good idea at the time. After a few gigs, I knew it wasn't for me. At least I have now ruled out the ES335 unless a terrific deal falls in my lap. Again, thanks for all the input. One final question about pickups. I have recommendations on the P90's and the classic 57's What are the differences? I am looking for a nice clean sound. I rarely use any overdrive or distortion.

[mambosun]

I have recommendations on the P90's and the classic 57's What are the differences? I am looking for a nice clean sound. I rarely use any overdrive or distortion.

Usually, at least for neck PU, humbucker sounds fatter and darker than P90 which is closer to single coil tone.
It's a matter of taste, style, amp you would plug it to...

[Bobsynth]

I just want to say thanks to everyone for their input. I learned a lot and made my decision. I have a brand new T185MX-CS on it's way. I should have it in about a week. One thing I learned which you might want to know is that the T180 line has been revised. The newer models come with nickel hardware, instead of the gold, and Seymour Duncan Pups instead of the Kent Armstrongs. I was told by a dealer that the are a big improvement over the older models. That remains to be seen, I guess, but I opted for the older 2011 model because I got a great deal from a dealer who told me he had called the factory to see if they had any remaining T180 models that the company might want to get out of their inventory, at the right price. He got them real cheap and passed it on to his customers. Simce I have never even played an Eastman before, I figured it was a good gamble. The cheapest good condition used one I've seen go on Ebay was $1049 plus shipping. I got this new one for a little less than that. I'm a happy camper. Thanks again to all.

[Uyasgali]

If you want a 335 then get a 335. Forget the others. Go out and find a 335 that you like and buy it. You will not be sorry.

[Flat]

If you think you want a 335, but price is an issue...I don't mean to sound like a broken record...but have you checked out the Heritage 535?

You can find them used on eBay for $1100 to $1300 quite often. Fantastic guitars at a really competitive price, imho. Made in the old Gibson factory in Kalamazoo by some old Gibson guys, etc.

Heritage Guitar, Inc. of Kalamazoo - Semi Hollow Body - H 535

[lpdeluxe]

I keep hearing about Gibson's poor quality, but I have yet to experience it myself. I have owned three, a Kalamazoo Les Paul, a Nashville SG, and my current Memphis 335. Each one has had zero issues. I suspect that a lot of the rumors are based on envy rather than actual playing of an instrument. And, of course, should there be a Gibson of poor quality, then don't buy the damned thing!

Before I got my 335 I had an Epiphone Sheraton II, which I rewired (not a task for the faint of heart) with decent quality electronics and Seymour Duncan pickups. It was, and remained, a very disappointing guitar. I consider the $400 or so I had invested (not counting my labor) as more than the guitar was worth. I paid $1750 for my 335, and it's a bargain, with attractive wood, effective electronics, and great playability. As they say, buy cheap, buy twice.

[kambor]

Check out Peerless guitars too. I tried a few models and, though I prefer full hollow bodies, the semihollows were great, not just for the money.

[woyvel]

Ibanez Artcore Custom AS103, AS73, AS93 to go along with the other 335 copies. I'd also throw the Epi Lucille in the mix.

[cargoshorts]

I went the Epiphone Sheraton II route. Bought one (Korean model) off of Craig's List for $400, added two Gibson Classic '57 humbuckers, and had a fantastic sounding and playing guitar. Total investment about $600.

I actually prefer Sheraton II's over 335's simply because I've never played a Sheraton that came from the factory in Korea with a playability issue.
I can't help but gravitate to The Natural Blonde.
Stunning.

[LarryL]

Well, here's my two cents.

If you like the Gibson ES335, you'll probably love the Heritage H535. If you are not familiar with the Heritage story, here's the condensed version.

Gibson left Kalamazoo MI. in '85 in order to consolidate their manufacturing in Nashville. Several old time employees didn't want to relocate, purchased the old Gibson plant and the woodworking machinery it contained, and started up Heritage.

Many of the guitars they produce are similar to models made by Gibson. I own the H535 which is much like the ES335. Many people who play these believe they play very much like the older Gibsons.

They are also quite a bit less expensive. A new H535 can be had for around $2200. and a used one for around $1500.

Why buy a Chinese Epiphone or Eastman when this great option exists?

[Isorozco]

Because eastman makes great guitars they're just made with a jazzy sound

[Bobsynth]

Well I felt I had to respond to this thread since I started it about a year ago. My initial quest was to buy a nice jazz guitar to supplement my other guitars that I use on the job. Many good points were brought up in the discussion. 1 person said "if you want a Gibson 335 then buy a Gibson 335" I agree to a point. I tried the 335 and it was nice, certainly better than the Sheraton (which was surprisingly good) but not 3 times better which is the price difference. I gambled on the Eastman and won. I like it better than the Gibson 335, in every way for less than half the price. The only 2 complaints I can make about the Eastman is the finish and head weight. It is very thin skinned and thus subject to wear. But I care more about playability and sound than looks so it's not a big deal to me. The head weight is out of proportion to the body weight so it wants to nose dive all the time. However I bought a strap that has a pocket for lead weights, which counter balances the guitar perfectly. I know it defeats the point of having a light weight guitar, but it is what it is. I liked the Eastman T185 but found that the body style was not very comfortable for me ( I always play standing up). So I sold it for what I paid for it and bought an Eastman El Rey ER3, a bright red one, and fell in love. It has the same 2 issues but the same solutions apply. As a bonus it is perfectly comfortable for me to play and it is more versatile than the T185 (yet is just as jazzy) and really gets comments from the audience. Everyone notices my red guitar and the improved sound I now have. As a side note, in my quest I also bought a Squire Jazzmaster, brand new for $299. It is amazing. However I tried 20 of them before I found the one that played perfectly. It was the sound of them that kept me looking. It is now my every gig guitar. I use the Eastman strictly for my jazz gigs. Go figure.

[Isorozco]

I have heard those comments about the weight of the t100's by eastman. However a t386 or t486 is a bit more evenly distributed. I still have to find an eastman that doesn't play every nice. Overall very good guitars

[M-ster]

Love to hear sound clips of your ER3 and Jazzmaster if you find the time, Bob.

[jbernstein91]

Another vote for Ibanez semihollows, but if you get one with the ACH pickups, replace them - or, at least, the neck pickup. I replaced the neck position ACH on my AS83 with a Pete Biltoft Vintage Vibe humbucker (Alnico 2, voiced for jazz), and it sounds great.

[Bobsynth]

There is a dealer on the internet who orders unfinished Eastmans and then inserts counter balance weights before he finishes them. They seem perfectly balanced.

I have heard those comments about the weight of the t100's by eastman. However a t386 or t486 is a bit more evenly distributed. I still have to find an eastman that doesn't play every nice. Overall very good guitars

[M-ster]

There is a dealer on the internet who orders unfinished Eastmans and then inserts counter balance weights before he finishes them. They seem perfectly balanced.

That was Jeff Hale, but I believe he's no longer in business. (There were several threads on the forum about him.)