Epiphone Lucille or Sheraton II

**nado64** · 02-24-2011, 05:33 AM

I want to change my JazzBox Epiphone Broadway by a semi-hollow.
I'll replace electronic and pickups on the new one. (pots CTS, auricap and gibson classic 57, I think).
I want to play from Grant Green to Kurt Rosenwinkel.

I tried many guitars, my choice is on the Sheraton 2.
I've seen The Epiphone BB King Lucille on the online catalogue but I can try it.

The no f-holes looks good for me, because when the amp is on low volume, i don't want to listen the acoustic sound. But, I don't know if the sound is modified. ?

Something else, the vari-tone, I don't think I'll use it, and if the varitone electronics are too cheap, I'm afraid that there are an influence on the sound and I don't want to replace it.

if you have tried the epi lucille, can you give your opinion ?

**woyvel** · 02-24-2011, 07:56 AM

I voted for the Sheraton, but I'd have to play both and really see one-to-one which I'd prefer.

I have a varitone on my Gibson L6S and it really does color the tone in ways a simple 3-position selector just can't. On the L6 there's no pickup selector (like the Lucille) so pickup selection is done with the varitone.

After 30 years of hard use, it crackles when switching, but I'm sure that can be fixed if I open it up. When I say hard use, I mean that it doesn't see the inside of a case unless it leaves the house. So I'd say that the varitone isn't cheap, it just isn't convenient for use on the fly.

**Banksia** · 02-24-2011, 08:33 AM

This is from the Epiphone blurb:"The Varitone switch gives you the ability to easily vary your tone while playing – think about that for a second. With one control you can on demand dial up a different tone half way through a song. Pure genius!"

Yes, because switching pickups was always so difficult and complicated!

**NiAg** · 02-24-2011, 08:57 AM

The Sheraton is a classic for a reason. The Lucile is a little gimmick-y.

But I'd try a Lucille. The no-F-holes will make almost no difference, but the switching might just sound great to you.

**mr. beaumont** · 02-24-2011, 09:06 AM

Sheraton.

Semi hollows aren't very loud, unamplified. Plus the Varitone is just something useless they can charge you more for.

**lpdeluxe** · 02-24-2011, 09:31 AM

If you like to experiment with pickups, go for the Lucille. I rewired a Sheraton II and it was an all-day sucker: everything came out of and went in through the treble f-hole, which was 3/4" at its widest (which meant I had to use mini-pots because normal size controls wouldn't go through the gap). I wrote up a guide to rewiring the Sheraton, but it takes a lot of patience and steady hands.

The Lucille has a removable plate which makes life much easier. I doubt that you'll hear any difference due to the lack of f-holes.

**Stackabones** · 02-24-2011, 11:51 AM

I've got a Sheraton II so I voted Sheraton II!

**RoyaleT** · 02-24-2011, 11:54 AM

Simpler design got my vote. Never played a Lucille, but the Sheraton is a sweet axe.

**nado64** · 02-24-2011, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by lpdeluxe

If you like to experiment with pickups, go for the Lucille. I rewired a Sheraton II and it was an all-day sucker: everything came out of and went in through the treble f-hole, which was 3/4" at its widest (which meant I had to use mini-pots because normal size controls wouldn't go through the gap). I wrote up a guide to rewiring the Sheraton, but it takes a lot of patience and steady hands.

The Lucille has a removable plate which makes life much easier. I doubt that you'll hear any difference due to the lack of f-holes.

Thank you for this important information. I rewired the broadway, and I spent a half day, and I imagine with a semi-hollow it's harder.

**mr. beaumont** · 02-24-2011, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by nado64

Thank you for this important information. I rewired the broadway, and I spent a half day, and I imagine with a semi-hollow it's harder.

It is and it isn't...less room to work with, but also less places for things to go when dropped inside.

Don't ask me how I know this.

**oldane** · 02-24-2011, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

It is and it isn't...less room to work with, but also less places for things to go when dropped inside.

Don't ask me how I know this.

A long legged forceps (a surgical instrument normally used for stopping bleeding from arteries during operations) is very useful to pick up leads and pots which has fallen into the sound box by accident. They come in both straight, curved and bent shapes and in various lengths. They will lock when they have clamped on the item in question. Surgigal instruments are available from many web shops. Just google "surgical instruments" and then in the shop of choice seach for "forceps".

When I replaced a pickup in my Gibson 175, I tied a string in each of the pots and in the pouput jack, so they were easy to pull back in place.

**bmw2002** · 02-24-2011, 05:05 PM

I purchased an Epiphone Sheraton II a couple of years ago, and immediately had the stock pick-ups switched out for a pair of Gibson Classic '57s. Took a very nice guitar to a whole other level. Haven't tried the Lucille, but the Sheri with the '57s is terrific.

**mambosun** · 02-24-2011, 07:40 PM

Did you try the Epi Casino? I'll recently played one plugged into my SF Twin Reverb and all i can say the stock neck pickup could produce a very sweet jazz tone.

**Freddy23** · 02-24-2011, 11:09 PM

A heads-up on the Varitone. I've read numerous complaints that switching it off of the bypassed position to one of the tonal variations cuts the volume significantly - forcing the player to make a volume adjustment along with the Varitone change. Hence, in performance, it's not quite the no-brainer it sounds like.

Disclaimer: I don't speak from personal experience but I would try one myself before buying.

**nado64** · 02-25-2011, 04:36 AM

Originally Posted by mambosun

Did you try the Epi Casino? I'll recently played one plugged into my SF Twin Reverb and all i can say the stock neck pickup could produce a very sweet jazz tone.

I tried, very nice guitar but not for me.
I prefer humbucker, and I want a sustain block.

**joe b** · 02-25-2011, 06:20 AM

I have been in the third circle of hell that is rewiring a 335. Forceps aren't enough. Avoid this activity. Where is the skull and crossbones emoticon when you need it?

**mambosun** · 02-25-2011, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by Freddy23

A heads-up on the Varitone. I've read numerous complaints that switching it off of the bypassed position to one of the tonal variations cuts the volume significantly - forcing the player to make a volume adjustment along with the Varitone change. Hence, in performance, it's not quite the no-brainer it sounds like.

Disclaimer: I don't speak from personal experience but I would try one myself before buying.

For several years I used an Aria ES500, a sort of TD335 clone with a varitone; while this can occasionally help to fine tune your tone, I agree with above, it is passive, as soon as you select any varitone setting, this will definitely affect the volume level, which might be a problem at gigs.

**mongrel** · 02-25-2011, 09:43 AM

I'd do the Lucille in a heartbeat over the Sheraton. Although I've never played one, I think you'd have much more tonal variety available due to the varitone circuit and, if some photos of the model I've seen are accurate, mono and stereo outputs, the stereo output being separate channels for the neck and bridge pickups. I think they are more expensive than the Sheratons which are basically tarted up Dots. I have a Dot and love it and I have a 1962 ES 355 Gibson with the Varitone circuit although that one is comprised of heavy old capacitors and the bloody thing weighs a lot. Since I am a tinkerer, the Lucille would be better due to the back access panel.

**FWBO** · 02-26-2011, 04:32 PM

I bought a Lucille over a Sheraton as I wanted a late night practice guitar for use with headphones. It was a struggle to get the neck set up right with TI 14's but I am happy with it now. Not the best neck in the world but it does the job.

The varitone is a waste of time IMHO. There is a volume reduction if you use it and for jazz there is only one position isn't there?

If unamplified quietness hadn't been my reason for buying then I think £500 would have been better spent on a Peerless

reread your original post and see you too don't want the acoustic sound. Perhaps a Lucille or get F hole covers to lower the acoustic sound??

**woyvel** · 03-13-2011, 10:57 AM

Revising my vote! I played an Epi Lucille and a Sheraton side-by-side this week. I'm big on versatility, but it was the ability to get a better (imo) warm tone on the Epi Lu that did it for me. Seriously thinking about acquiring one now.

Regarding the varitone, I'm not a huge fan of them, but I'm more than familiar with it (have it on my L6) I found the single coil position to be nice. Yes, it cuts volume, but the same thing happens with most guitars when you tap the humbucker.

**barrymclark** · 03-13-2011, 11:55 AM

While I love the look of the Lucille, I will have to admit never playing the Epi version. The Sheraton, though, I have played and really enjoyed. I think they are roughly $600 and sound pretty good.

So... take my vote for the Sheri with a grain of salt: no playing experience with the Epi Lu.

Funny enough, I have a Gretsch 6120 that was made in the mid to late 60's I got as a basket case and have spent the last several years getting it fixed up.

The condition of the body cosmetically forced me to do a solid color so... I decided to make it look as much like a Lucille (I think the Lucille is a VERY classy looking guitar) that a Gretsch could. This model is the double cutaway and has no f-holes... but it is a full hollow.

I call 'er Lulu (after Lulu Hogg from the Dukes of Hazzard) since she is kind of like a hillbilly Lucille. haha.

**peejay** · 04-21-2011, 10:29 AM

As others have said, replacing the electrics on a Sheraton II is a bitch - you need a steady hand and infinite patience. I swapped the stock pups for a Seymour Duncan Hot Rodded set which made a big difference, especially at the bottom end. The thing that made the biggest difference to the tone for me was replacing the stock plastic nut with a bone one - unbelievable.

**woyvel** · 04-21-2011, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by Banksia

:"The Varitone switch gives you the ability to easily vary your tone while playing – think about that for a second. With one control you can on demand dial up a different tone half way through a song. Pure genius!"

What a bunch of BS! And I know because I have a Gibson L6S with a Varitone. The inability to switch on the fly is the reason why people don't like Varitones. Otherwise, my beloved L6 would have been so much more popular, and would not have gone the way of the dinosaur in 1981.

**djg714** · 04-21-2011, 11:16 PM

A used Korean made Sheraton would be my choice.

**Badge** · 08-08-2011, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by peejay

As others have said, replacing the electrics on a Sheraton II is a bitch - you need a steady hand and infinite patience. I swapped the stock pups for a Seymour Duncan Hot Rodded set which made a big difference, especially at the bottom end. The thing that made the biggest difference to the tone for me was replacing the stock plastic nut with a bone one - unbelievable.

Am I right in saying that the quality of nut is moot unless you are playing open strings?