-
I'm currently playing seymour duncan alnico pro II equipped solid body guitars through a Lunchbox and a Cube 30. I also have access to an Ibanez Promethean Bass amp that I use from time to time. I've been thinking about getting a more versatile (read as louder) dedicated jazz guitar amp and I note there is a pretty big variance between the contenders.
At one end, you have the Cube 60x or 80x perhaps the ZT Club. I'm a fan of my 30x and I know the 60 or 80 will be more of a good thing. That said, I'm wondering if I should be using this chance to upgrade substantially and buy into a Evans, AI, Henriksen or something of that ilk.
I'd like enough clean headroom to comfortably play with drums and horns. I don't need any effects (reverb etc included). I love the tone of Joe Pass. Just wonderful. Clean, simple... transparent.
[one of countless examples of his brilliance]
Joe's tone to me isn't overly bass-y. I think it fits in well with a bass player/drums/keys left hand and that's important to me. I'm not a big fan of guitar tonal setups where there is "booming" bass in a flailing effort to sound full -- too much drowning out of other instruments in the tonal spectrum.
Weight and portability is very important as well -- I can't imagine going above 30lbs total and I think a combo is highly preferable to the head/cab setup.
Anyway, before I take the plunge, for those that have upgraded from the "mid tier" of the cubes, clubs and so forth to the big boys -- was the extra coin worth it? Is there really that big of a step up in terms of clarity, volume, headroom and so forth? You happy about it?
Based on your feedback, what would you recommend?
Thanks!!!
-
12-18-2010 01:15 PM
-
Well, of course you'll have to try the contenders (with your guitars) and see what you yourself think. But I think my Henriksen JazzAmp112 (with outboard tweeter) was definitely worth it. And I also have a ZT Club and I used to have a Cube 60 (and a Cube 30 before that). I stilll had the Cube 60 when I got the Henriksen and got to compare them side-by-side for Jazztone. Was the Henriksen 3x better (the price differential)? Of course not! But I'd say it was 30% better to my ears. (There are a bunch of somewhat relevant posts going back to at least a year and a half ago if you care to do a search.)
Last edited by Tom Karol; 12-18-2010 at 02:15 PM. Reason: Add comparison & reference to old threads
-
If you can find a Fender Jazzmaster Ultralight you'll have it all: 25.6 lb, 250 watts, 1x12 speaker. It's not a combo but its light weight make it easily transportable (the head fits in a bag that also holds the power cord and Speakon speaker cable. It's clean enough that a friend uses mine to amplify his Fishman-equipped Martin. Lots of clean, with the option of distortion on the second channel, endless headroom. The amp nests in the cab via magnetic feet that makes it stable.
Apparently Fender is discontinuing it (only the head is shown on their website). The speaker is 2 ohm, which limits substitutions.
They pop up on the used market, though, and there may be online dealers who have one in stock. Here's a pic:
-
As everywhere else, the law of dimishing marginal returns apllied here as well. In the high end you may get 25% more but have to pay 100% more. But if you want the last 25% you have no choice but to pay the big money.
And yes, expensive amps ARE better. I have an Evans JE150 and an old Cube 30. The Evans is miles above the Cube in terms of sound quality. And we all know how great those classic tube amps from Fender sounds - and you have to pay a premium for them. Like I wrote in another thread, the Fender Twin Reverb is the best amp I never owned.
-
The henriksen is the finest amp I've ever owned. And it's as loud as anything (I have the "convertible" head and I use it with a redstone speaker cab, not a henriksen cab, but the henriksen cabs are great too)
I also have a lunchbox--the most convenient amp I've owned, an it gets a ot of usage. But the tone of the Henriksen is significantly more "hi-fi," and for important gigs, it gets first call.
-
i had cube and sold it bought fender super champ XD...superb...clean, blackface, tweeed and jazz tones(voice) serve very well for jazz...keep in mind! ciao
-
I was looking at a super champ XD.
Originally Posted by telemust
Isn't that the one with the spring reverb?
Also, some Vox stuff like the VT30 and the Ac4tv with 10 in. speaker.
The VT is hybrid (tube preamp) and the AC is full on tube, but is on
4 watts. I'm having trouble deciding. I really like the tube sound, but
would like to play over drums without mic-ing my amp.
Selling my old gear to help pay for my new amp.
I play jazz, classic rock, hard rock, blues, and even acoustic stuff.
Having a versatile amp is very important, but I could get the AC
and just buy a Boss DS-1 for distortion.
-
I would stay away from the vox ac4tv......I have one, its real real bright.
-
Thanks. Isn't that jangle what Vox is all about? Originally Posted by shakowski
I have a Vox wah and hate how much treble it adds to the EQ.
What about the VT30?
I tried one out today. You can adjust the wattage with a knob. 0 to 30w.
For really crunchy stuff. Possibly tooooo much crunch, which is crap.
It has some nice effects and amp models. Still not sure if the half-tube
thing is a gimmick, but the amp sounded great. It only sounded flat
when I had the watts down low, since at first I thought that was the
volume. Silly me.
Seriously, I could get a VT30 for $140 on craigslist.
I just don't know..I could get all tube, but no distortion, or
a solid state with all the effects I could ever need for less.
-
follow your heart man...try and if you dont like it sell and buy another one that is what we do...i had peavey classic, roland cube, t elliot etc...and now im happy with super champ...my next step will be blues jr tweed...you decide ! what i believe now is simple; you can get good jazz sound from almost any amp if you know how to treat...ciao
-
It's hard to choose. Here's the main two I had in mind, compared: Originally Posted by telemust
The AC4 sound 1,000 times better. Very ACDC-ish tone, too, which
I love. I'm not sure if he's using a pedal to get that distortion on
the AC4 or if he's using the power attenuator. Both have the attenuator,
so it's possible he didn't use pedals.
Since I'll be gigging, my teacher recommended getting something
with more power. I couldn't understand why I would need power
when we have all the speakers, monitors, cabs, and the PA all at
school. The tone is worth more than the volume to me. He thinks
of the AC4 as wimpy, but it's by far the best amp I've ever played.Last edited by Vintage; 12-19-2010 at 07:51 PM.
-
I have an AC4TV. Definetly bright with early breakup. I retubed it with a lower attentuation factor pre-amp tube (and used higher quality tubes for both tubes). Large improvement. It is now what I use for ballad-type pieces. Originally Posted by shakowski
-
Has anyone tried the Tone King Metropolitan? How does it sound with a full hollow archtop?
Tone King Amplifier Company Website
-
Ordered an Acoustic Image combo from J Hale. Review to follow. We'll see...
-
Ah, definitely agree with everything you said. Originally Posted by oldane
I've always had to use the VYPYR 15 to get closest to the Fender
Twin sound for cheap. I'm sure there are a lot more modeling amps
out there that have the Twin as a model, though.
I'm deciding to go with the Vox VT20+. It's 30w, hybrid (has a 12AX7 tube),
tuner, headphone jack, power attenuator (adjusts 0 to 30 watts), 99 presets,
25 effects, 8 user presets programs for saving tones, 19 lbs, and an 8 in speaker (4 ohms)
for only $170. Should be quite a few steps up from the VYPYR 15.Last edited by Vintage; 12-20-2010 at 05:17 PM.
-
This is almost scary; I logged on for the sole purpose of asking whether I should get a Cube 80XL today or save for an Evans.
I've played a Cube recently and I'm always blown away at how great they sound. I probably wouldn't use all of the features, but I DO like being able to approximate fender blackface and tweed tones.
I've only played one OLD Evans 1x15, and it was great, but quite different than the new ones look. Really, I'd like to know whether they can approximate a fender blackface tone. Also, I'd like to know just how loud the RE200 or JE200 would be (say, compared to a Cube 80XL). Also, has anyone compared the bass response on a closed/ported Cube and a "open" back Evans?
-
Bump!
-
First, I'm looking strictly for a clean jazz sound -- never want to hear distortion for example. That's important to these discussions because many people are looking for an amp that will serve a lot of different types of gigs.Anyway, before I take the plunge, for those that have upgraded from the "mid tier" of the cubes, clubs and so forth to the big boys -- was the extra coin worth it? Is there really that big of a step up in terms of clarity, volume, headroom and so forth? You happy about it?
Secondly, my day job until forced to retire, was in electronics and it began when tubes were common. I hate working with tubes and I'm happy that solid state amplifiers are available to me.
Third, how do we define "Higher End?"
If solid state amps like those built by Polytone are considered "high end," then yes, I think they are "worth it." They have good tone and I've had no service issues with the pair I've owned over the past 25 years.
They're also very "tolerant" of guitars with cheap pickups in my opinion -- making up for much of the additional cost compared to "low end" amps if this is taken advantage of to save some money on the guitar.
But if we're talking about amps costing $2000 U.S. and more...well...I've listened to them. A lot of the "boutique" tube amps are nothing more than a rehash of bedroom practice amps from 50 years ago.
And the really pricey solid state amps...well...look...without naming names and stepping on toes...some of the really famous endorsers are striving for a tone that sounds to me like they've thrown a heavy comforter over the amp. I've met some guys with fabulous technique and encyclopedic knowledge of music...but when it comes to tone...
What I'm saying is, maybe we have gotten a little carried away with dark sounding humbuckers and "rolling off" too much treble and searching for amps that sound "plummy" or "sweet" over the past few decades. Maybe it's because so many of the recordings left over from 1950 are worn out...
But, in any event, I think it is true that you quickly reach the point of diminishing returns with amps just as you do with guitars. I think that some new amps in the $800~$1000 range are worth the extra expense provided they don't irreparably trash your budget.
More than that? Not so much.
-
This topic reminds me of wine. Imagine going to a store and buying the best bottle of wine you can get at various price points: $5, $10, $20, $40, $80. There will be some diminishing returns there. I don't think my palate is trained enough to detect a different between a $40 and and $80 bottle. On the other hand, there's a big difference between a $5 and $10 bottle.
-
FYI, I've owned 3 Evans, loved them all. My current RE200 is my fav out of all of them, ample power, lightweight & a great tone, I highly recommend it. There are some other threads with some video demos of the RE200, might want to poke around a bit to try to dig them up. Originally Posted by markesquire
-
Fender® Products
The Fender SuperChamp XD seems pretty sweet.
$200 used, $300 new. Preamp and power tubes with FX.
15 watts, 10 in speaker, 8 ohms impendence. I think it's
better than the Vox VT20+.
-
Hello all,
I ordered a Polytone Mega Brute directly from the Polytone factory in April 2010. They had not done a production run of Mega Brutes at that time as they only produce about 60 at a time, so I think I was the first to receive a 2010 model in June. Delivered to me by a factory rep, I thank Polytone for the personal attention they extended to me. 8 inch speaker, 120 watts, beautiful classic Polytone sound. Slightly smaller than the Mini Brute. They updated the cabinet utilizing the 3/4 thick top panel and 1/2 inch sides and bottom like the Mighty Brute, and put the Polytone nameplate vertical instead of horizontal across the bottom. The handle is on the top instead of on the side as older Mega models and I had asked for a detachable power cord instead of the attached cord with the winding hooks. I have not seen any other Mega Brutes from this run, so my Mega Brute may be a unique amp. It sounds great, powerful and rich. About 18-20 pounds. It is classic. I use it to record, usually direct out, as the pre-amp and direct out are everything I hoped for. Not Cheap though. While you may find a Cube that could fill your needs for much less, or an even more expensive Evans or Henriksen, I do not think you could do any better than a Mega Brute or Mini Brute. These amps are purpose built for mainly jazz and if that's your goal, try one. I will try to post a pic, it might take minute.Last edited by BHJazzman; 12-21-2010 at 05:08 PM.
-
You can often find the smaller Mega Brutes on eBay. There are two right now; the first one is currently $150.
-
Right Big Daddy... Nice blue... the top unit would be my choice of the 2, but I am sure it will go for more than the current bid. I looked at these two, they are both older models with the "Distortion" overdrive. The newer models have the newer "Sonic Circuit" selector. But yes, these units on ebay may still offer good performance and value. I still think that if a player is looking for a "Warm" sound the Polytone amps offer a lot in a small package. They can have a bright tone as well. If brightness is the desired effect, then a Cube or Princeton would work too. I had considered a Cube. But I like my Polytone. I would buy it again. Thanks.
-
Would you recommend a Princeton over a Blues Jr.? Originally Posted by BHJazzman
How close does the SuperChamp XD stack up to them?
If I get the SuperChamp XD, should I replace the speaker with
a Fender USA Blues Deluxe (12in 8 ohm) or Fender Twin Reverb (12in 8ohm)?
What about the tubes? Everyone says the tubes should be replaced,
but with which... matching JJs for power and preamp?
Reply With Quote
mid-ranginess?
Today, 05:42 PM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos