The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    Oooo the Chanellor is a 17" bout. Now thats interesting.

    I also noticed its 3" deep like a JS.

    I loved the sound of the President (new) but thought it would be improved by being 17". Something about compressing sound and projection. I imagine the Ch will have a better spread of tone and softer projection.

    I think these Guitars are great example of why the Poly VS Nitro argument doesnt really stack up. The Hofner P and Jazzica are two of the most resonant guitars I have heard and played, especially for their size.

    I didn't see the bracing pattern though for the CH?
    Last edited by Archie; 04-25-2015 at 04:06 AM.

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  3. #27

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    Added the bracing pattern. Here's a picture of Hofner's pattern as used on the New-President, Vice President, Jazzica, and Chancellor:
    Attached Images Attached Images Hofner Chancellor-hof-new-president-bracing-jpg 

  4. #28

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    I've owned 4 different Hofners: Verythin JS, Jazzica, New President, and got a Thin President from a member here (one guess who it was).

    They all have that Hofner sound because of the Diamond pickups and longer scale, that is to say, kind of a warm bounciness, and very clear, but not too bright. Hammertone can correct me but I think plugged in, they are all in the same ballpark as each other, maybe more bass on the Jazzica and NP, but similar tones. Those looking for a thick Gibson sound should look elsewhere. I think the biggest difference was just the acoustic sound. With the NP, and presumably the Chancellor, it could really pass for an acoustic guitar. It has a smaller lower bout but is very deep and gives a very cool focused acoustic tone. The Jazzica didn't have near the same response, tone, or volume acoustically that the NP does.

    I feel like I may have just answered a question no one asked, so here is a video to distract you:
    Last edited by spiral; 04-24-2015 at 09:47 PM.

  5. #29

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    Hey Rob,

    If you've decided on a Hofner, and you're going to wait till the right model comes up for sale, you might also consider one of the Attila Zoller model variants. (Standard/Special/Award). They don't get discussed very often on the forum here, but I think the general consensus is that the AZ is one of Hofners greatest guitars.

    I don't understand why Hofner haven't re-issued this model. (Or build one to order)

    Maybe some other forum members could comment on potential availability of a used one.

    Jimmy Raney played one for the last few years of his career,it's all over this album.


  6. #30

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    Is it a shorter scale? Sounds like it to me on the Raney recording, or he's using thinner strings. The fretboard looks mighty narrow too, thats probably too narrow for me.

    Still a beautiful looking guitar and killer tone.

    I suppose on a side note Im kinda annoyed with Hofner. I wish they would make straight ahead American sounding archtops because their quality of work and prices are really good. Ok the VP was way over priced but generally its the European chance, to buy traditional sounding archtops, not some weird Bavarian, french type Gitane sounding US hybrid thing.

    I never know whether to use hofners for Gypsy jazz or old school swing. I'm sure there are thousands of German and fellow europeans who love using them more for they indigenous music, like old french ball musette stuff and old German Folk music.
    Last edited by Archie; 04-25-2015 at 07:06 AM.

  7. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammertone
    Added the bracing pattern. Here's a picture of Hofner's pattern as used on the New-President, Vice President, Jazzica, and Chancellor:
    What is the impact on tone when you have a single bass bar just like in a violin? Don't you think that with 2 bars (parallel braced or x braced) you could make a thinner top with a better acoustic tone?

    I would love to have a parallel brace chancellor with a thinner top!!

    Daniel

  8. #32

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    It's nice to see a bit of interest in old and new Hofner archtop guitars. When I started researching their history and collecting them back in 1984, there wasn't much information available, nor was there a world-wide web. A few things:

    Hofner built a few guitars as part of the Attila Zoller series from the late 1980s to 1994 - the Attila Zoller Award, Attila Zoller Special, and so forth. Even with unlabelled and undocumented examples, there were fewer than 50 of these guitars made from 1988 to 1994. I do have a couple of Attila Zoller necks around here somewhere...

    The model is a @16" archtop with carved top and laminated rims/back. Scale length was specified at Hofner's standard 64.4 mm (25.35"). Or maybe 64.3 mm (25.25"). The fingerboard has a smaller radius than other Hofner archtops of the time, which was apparently a specific request from Zoller. It has some nice some Attila Zoller-specific cosmetic touches. The neck meets the body at the 14th fret.

    The Jazzica was introduced in 1989, with a 16th fret neck/body joint, same 64.4 cm (25.35") scale length specified. Both the Jazzica and Attila Zoller models had floating Zoller pickups with body-mounted volume/tone controls.

    The Attila Zoller is typical of the late 1980s/early 1990s Hofner archtops. IMO, it fits in-between the old 16" carved-top/laminated-back Presidents of the 1950s and the new @16" carved-top/laminated-back New President introduced in 1998, just four years after the Attila Zoller was discontinued. To me, the New President takes some Attlia Zoller ingredients (carved top, traditional f-holes, small, deep body, wood pickguard and tailpiece), some Jazzica ingredients (16th fret neck/body joint), some acoustic archtop features (no controls mounted to the top) and combines them nicely.

    The Chancellor is quite different to me because of the 17" body, 3" rims, and solid spruce carved top and solid maple carved back plates. Similar in many ways to a Gibson JS or Legrand, but nicer, of course.
    Last edited by Hammertone; 06-02-2020 at 02:17 AM.

  9. #33

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    Great info from Hammertone. Where would we be without you?!

  10. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanTheMan
    What is the impact on tone when you have a single bass bar just like in a violin? Don't you think that with 2 bars (parallel braced or x braced) you could make a thinner top with a better acoustic tone?

    I would love to have a parallel brace chancellor with a thinner top!!

    Daniel
    Well i will take a stab at it.

    In theory, unless i've lost my marbles the less bracing there is, means the top can vibrate more?

    Either way, you will be hard pressed to find more acoustically resonant archtops. Did you not hear the clip of my New President? That has the same bracing if I'm not mistaken and so does the Jazzica. Both are essentially too acoustic, they are almost like flat tops but with the more focused tone of an archtop.

    Whatever it is they are doing, is working, trust me

    Now if only they can shorten the scale to 25", widen the fingerboard a little and ditch the pickups, make a 17" bout version thats 3" deep (ok so they are getting close with the chancellor) I'd be all over them. They're so close lol
    Last edited by Archie; 04-25-2015 at 02:05 PM.

  11. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchtopHeaven
    Well i will take a stab at it.

    In theory, unless i've lost my marbles the less bracing there is, means the top can vibrate more?
    I just think that a ''little bit'' more bracing add strenght to the top, as a consequence the top can be made thinner. The overall result would be a lighter top that would be more resonnant. The thinnest top could be obtained with a parallel brace.

    The bracing may also have an impact on how and how fast the acoustic energy is distributed in the top. I tried an Hofner only once,Vice President, my feeling is that the acoustic tone was a little too tight and the bass was lacking. But it was a brand new guitar. Only one guitar is not a good sampling size neither...

    Daniel

  12. #36

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    Lots of suggestions for how to make the Chancellor even better - thanks!
    Here's one with an different finish:


    Last edited by Hammertone; 04-27-2015 at 01:34 AM.

  13. #37

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    …and here's one from 2011 with a very dark violin varnish finish, set up in a more electric style:

  14. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanTheMan
    I just think that a ''little bit'' more bracing add strenght to the top, as a consequence the top can be made thinner. The overall result would be a lighter top that would be more resonnant. The thinnest top could be obtained with a parallel brace.

    The bracing may also have an impact on how and how fast the acoustic energy is distributed in the top. I tried an Hofner only once,Vice President, my feeling is that the acoustic tone was a little too tight and the bass was lacking. But it was a brand new guitar. Only one guitar is not a good sampling size neither...

    Daniel
    I dont think it quite works like that. I've played guitar with super thin tops that sound harsh and bright and without much volume .
    Oh and yeh the VP Hofner is the worst example. You really should try the President and Jazzica. Those tops are pretty damn thin too.

  15. #39

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    I finally got a reply from Hofner:

    "The Chancellor is hand-made in our master workshop. The capacity of this workshop is very much limited: our master luthier produces the Chancellor at irregular intervals. At this date, the waiting time is longer than 24 months. Therefore, we do not accept any new orders for now. We will announce at our website (under 'Limited Editions') when we will have a Chancellor available for sale.
    Thank you for understanding."

  16. #40

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    Bummer. Maybe you could get Hammertone to part with one of his hoard of Chancelors.

  17. #41

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    If anyone wants a Chancellor, I'd be happy to sell one.
    Pix of one I have for sale now are in the For Sale area of the forum.
    Five or six of them is more than enough for me, but I'm in no hurry. I learned a long time ago that it's better to deal with informed buyers who have taken the time and effort to figure out for themselves how good these guitars are, as opposed to shoving them at people.

  18. #42

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    "Der 17” große vollmassive Ahornkorpus garantiert genau den lauten, voluminösen Klang..."

    Gotta love German ...

    The big massive 17 inch body guarantees a loud, voluminous sound ... or something like that

    These are beautiful guitars


    Would love to have one of their big bass fiddles, too ... but they can get up to $40K US or more ... ouch

  19. #43

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    "The 17" fully solid maple body guarantees the same loud, sonorous tone which made the 'Golden Höfner' famous."

    Yeah, this line has been around for a few years.
    Completely wrong and utterly misleading, because the Golden is a totally different guitar. But since so few people have ever heard a Golden or a Chancellor, it hasn't done much damage, if any.

    In the real world, the Chancellor has these dimensions:
    - 20 1/4" long
    - 17" wide bottom bout
    - 13" wide upper bout
    - 3" to 3 3/16" rims, depending on the amount of beer consumed
    - 25 1/4" scale.

    Last edited by Hammertone; 06-02-2020 at 02:19 AM.

  20. #44

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    So beautiful. Any idea about pricing?

  21. #45

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    The Chancellor has disappeared from the price lists.
    They typically don't put "Limited Edition" or custom-requested instruments on their price lists.
    [ed: It was up on the Hofner website until sometime in the spring of 2018, when it disappeared]
    My guess is that it probably has a street price somewhere around $7K in the US.

    "Junction Music" in Grand Junction, Colorado (looks to be a music teacher, not a store) has a used natural finish 2008 full-depth model (3" rims) in mint condition on ebay with a BIN of US $3,500 or BO. Someone should grab it - that is stupidly cheap and they obviously have no clue what it is.

    As of March 21, 2018, there are a few in Europe:
    -Marnic has a violin finish one listed at 8,190 euros (@9,140 - 9,150 USD)
    -Leih Instrumente has a violin finish one listed at 7,966 euros (@8,890-8,900 USD)
    -Thomann has a natural finish one listed at 6,899 euros (@7,700 USD)
    -Umbrella Music has a natural finish one, used listed at 3,758.77 pounds (@4,785-5,000 USD).






    Last edited by Hammertone; 06-02-2020 at 02:20 AM.

  22. #46

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    The full depth version is 3 inches. I'm curious - what is the depth of the 'thinline'?.

  23. #47

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    HT,

    GORGEOUS Hofners, man. I can hear them from here.

    If anyone doubts Hofner's quality in the top-shelf archtop market, all I can say is that the old (80s) Hofner AZ Award model that Attila Zoller, Jimmy Raney and others played was as good as it gets. Hofner knows how to get it done with an all solid-wood archtop.

  24. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmorash
    The full depth version is 3 inches. I'm curious - what is the depth of the 'thinline'?.
    @2 1/4 - 2 1/2"
    Go figure...

    Just a guess, but they probably had a few sets of rims that didn't quite make the grade at the 3" depth. The elves are very practical folk.
    They are following in the noble footsteps of Gibson by providing a lot of useless information, but not including some of the important information.

  25. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by child as audience
    CME has one of these on reverb, FYI.

    Hofner Chancellor Violin Varnish USED | Reverb

    The black binding on these gets me.
    Hey, Just chiming in to say that's my guitar for sale. Bought it off of Hammertone. Absolutely no issues with this guitar, whatsoever. It is in fantastic condition. I sold it and two others to CME (there's a spotless blonde 1984, last year at Kalamazoo 175 with Shaw pickups for sale there that used to be mine as well). The reason I sold it as as follows:

    (1) I am absolutely not a collector and hate seeing instruments collect dust. I'd rather play my L5C and even a relatively beater like 1937 L7 ( L7 also purchased from Hammertone). I found myself having more instruments than I play, and started hating myself. The L7 I will NEVER sell, it's a fantastic acoustic archtop. and the L5C I will never sell, it's from the early 60s and perfect. I have attempted to buy Ibanez FBs, Gibson Howard Roberts and 175s multiple times and never bonded with them. Wound up selling them every time. My Jim Hall, which I traded away, I really regretted and I wound up buying an even better one. the Sadowsky JH is a lifer. I

    (2) Having gotten my guitars down a select few again, I feel much better and am commissioning a Brahms guitar. The sale of these sold guitars will essentially pay for the Brahms guitar. If you don't know what that is, google "Paul Galbraith" and Brahms guitar. It is an incredible instrument.

    You can't go wrong with this Chancellor, it's priced CHEAP as these goes, and it's spotless. The '84 Shaw pup 175 is spotless as well.

  26. #50

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    [QUOTE=NSJ;955315]Hey, Just chiming in to say that's my guitar for sale. Bought it off of Hammertone. Absolutely no issues with this guitar, whatsoever. It is in fantastic condition. ... You can't Yeah, a great deal, and a fine guitar that sounds and plays great (it sold quickly).

    As of May, 2019, the Chancellor has disappeared from Hofner's website. Up until earlier in 2019, there were a couple of archtops shown, including a German-made Chancellor, an all-laminated German-made "New Committee", and a bunch of Chinese-made archtops. They have all been removed. Maybe they'll be back tomorrow. Or not. There may be one or two in varying states of assembly hanging from the ceiling at Hofner, waiting to be completed, or a stack of top and back plates sitting on a shelf, gathering dust. Or not. Maybe a Chancellor will pop up again on their site, or at a retailer, offering Chancellor lovers some choice. Or not.

    I certainly don't see them trying to get back into the archtop marketplace anytime soon, let alone make more Chancellors. Hofner made fewer than 150 of these guitars between 2003 and 2018 and they don't come up for sale, new or used, very often. This one for sale was a really lovely guitar. It sold quickly. If someone here bought it, perhaps they will post their impressions.

    CMI's posted neck measurements are a bit off, I think. Unless I was drunk when I took these measurement from this instrument before originally selling it, the actual neck dimensions are:
    -width at nut: 1 23/32" | 1.7188" | 4.37 cm.
    -width at 12th fret: 2 3/32" | 2.0938" | 5.3182 cm.
    -depth at 1st fret: 29/32" | 0.9063" | 2.302 cm.
    -depth at 12th fret: 1" | 1" | 2.54 cm.
    The guitar has a carved top, carved back and solid maple rims. It is very much like a Johnny Smith, Legrand, or Artist Award, but ... better.
    Last edited by Hammertone; 06-02-2020 at 02:23 AM.