Getting a warm sound from a thinline guitar

[marzamonte]

[Sorry for my mistakes, no english spoken at home!]

The title of this thread may be some sort of "nooo, not again!", well, I know, but I'm trying to gather requirementes for a specific warm sound in a thinline style guitar.

This is my cookbook for the warm sound I'm looking for, please, tell me your experiences and facts with each matter:

1) 24 3/4 neck, lets me use .13 without much tension. There's some kind of darker sound I love. 25.5 seem to be brighter.

2) maple/mahogany neck. Does it makes a BIG difference in sound? I don't think so.

3) Top, solid carved versus laminated. Mos't people say laminated maple gets that warm sound (ES 3xx, JSM 100), I've played a solid carved top for a long time and It wasn't the sound I'm expecting to get. I must also say that that guitar is neck-through, with maple neck, and 25 inches scale. I think laminated is the way to go for the sound I'm looking for.

4) 16 inches versus 15 inches (or less). I like 16 inches guitar, or at least 15.5, but leately I've heard a lot of people talking about "warm sound" on gibson 339. Is it "warmer" than a 335?

5) pickups, I don't think I'm using the bridge pickup. Do you guys use it when playing jazz? If I were to order a custom made guitar wouldn't have a bridge pickup, instead If have a humbucker close to neck, and right behind a P90. Pretty ugly but I would get all I want.

6) who gets that sound? Not talking about the style I play, just some famous guitarrists who get close to the sound I'm looking for:

- Frisell (yeah I know, tele)
- Rosenwinkel
- Brad Shepik (yeah I know, white falcon)
- Monder
- Cardenas


All your comments are welcome. I open this thread after having read all the "my epi sheraton has the warmer sound I've ever heard" posts in lots of forums. I'm really interested in people with a vast experience that have tested/owned a bunch of guitars.

[cosmic gumbo]

I thought a thinline was a Fender telecaster model?

[marzamonte]

I thought a thinline was a Fender telecaster model?

That's right.

People also call thinline to thin semi-hollow and hollow models.
Lets say gibson 3xx, Heritage 535, Ibanez AS200, Sadowsky Semihollow, Eastman 18x, Yamaha SA2200, PRS Hollow I and II, Hammer Monaco, ...

I like teles and really love how Frisell/Greene get their tones from it, but I'm looking for some sort of darker sound.

[cosmic gumbo]

Jeepers, I've got a thinline, and I didn't even know it! How cool is that?

[teletron1]

It depends on just HOW warm you are trying to get. You can go with a mini-humbucker in the neck position with 250k pots. That is if you're still talking Tele.

[marzamonte]

It depends on just HOW warm you are trying to get. You can go with a mini-humbucker in the neck position with 250k pots. That is if you're still talking Tele.

Thanks for your advice, right now I'm not buying a tele, but a 335 style, maybe without the central block.

I'd like to know what makes a electric guitar sound warm. Scale, woods and general construction. I'm not into electronics right now.

The whole picture is that I hace to decide between:
- Gibson 335 (mahogany neck, 24 3/4, rosewood)
- Gibson 355 (mahogany neck, 24 3/4, ebony)
- Ibanez JSM100 (maple neck, 24 3/4, compound, ebony)
- Eastman T186MX (mahogany neck, 25, ebony, carved, no central block)
- Custom made (like eastman + compound + 24 3/4)
- Some others ...

Hardware isn't an issue at this moment.

[cosmic gumbo]

Hollowbody electrics are usually warmer that semi-hollows.

[ronjazz]

Let me step in here and recommend VERY HIGHLY the Samick Royale 3. About $500 street price, superbly made (Greg Bennett design) with Duncan-designed humbuckers. 24.75" scale, beautiful maple cap, really exceptional buy. Warm as you need (depending on string gauge), or bright and funky. A great working-man's axe. I bought one to drill holes in, as I wanted to install an RMC MIDI pickup system, which I did, but I use this guitar constantly for jazz, fusion and blues-rock gigs. It always gets compliments for both the appearance and the sound.

[derek]

Steve Cardenas plays an old 335 thru a Twin. You seem to be talking about a 335 ish guitar. Sco plays the Ibanez version, and I have had the somewhat cheaper version (Art Star) of that. Yamaha makes a nice version, and I know a pro in NY who plays one. Sheryl Bailey plays a McCurdy Mercury, which is a 14" 335 type.

There are tons of makers who have versions of this guitar from the cheapie Artcore all the way up to the Collings I-35 ($5500). Gibson of course makes plenty of versions also. At this point, I think the 339 or the I-35 is my fav. You might check Jack Zucker's blog on the topic for additional info. Jack is as knowledgable a guy about guitar gear as anyone I am aware of. Happy hunting.

Text

[marzamonte]

Thanks both for your comments

Let me step in here and recommend VERY HIGHLY the Samick Royale 3. ... Warm as you need (depending on string gauge), or bright and funky

Sounds nice, but this is going to be MY GUITAR. The one and only, so I'm allowed to pay a bit more for my guitar (my wife told me). In that price range that Samick is very interesting, I haven't ever seen one. I'll ask some friends. Anyhow ... the electronics seems cheapy

Yamaha makes a nice version, and I know a pro in NY who plays one.
...
You might check Jack Zucker's blog on the topic for additional info. Jack is as knowledgable a guy about guitar gear as anyone I am aware of. Happy hunting.

There are some reports about yamaha necks twisting with .12 or .13 gauges. I use .12 so SA2200 is not in my list.
I already visited Jack Zuker's blog, this page is guilty of stoping me from buying the Gibson ES335 right now.

http://www.sheetsofsound.net/semihollow.htm

My simple summary of this page is: buy the eastman t185 or 186, but you know, I'm afraid of paying half the price for a better guitar, . I don't have a local dealer where I can test both guitars (nor the Samick Royale).

[nic]

Let me step in here and recommend VERY HIGHLY the Samick Royale 3. About $500 street price, superbly made (Greg Bennett design) with Duncan-designed humbuckers. 24.75" scale, beautiful maple cap, really exceptional buy. Warm as you need (depending on string gauge), or bright and funky. A great working-man's axe. I bought one to drill holes in, as I wanted to install an RMC MIDI pickup system, which I did, but I use this guitar constantly for jazz, fusion and blues-rock gigs. It always gets compliments for both the appearance and the sound.

I'll second this opinion. I just bought a used Samick Royale 3 for $300 just because it looked so good. I didn't realize that this guitar sounded and felt so great. The Duncan designed pick-ups sound really good, but I happened to have a couple Gibson pick-ups laying around and installed them. Now there is really no difference between this guitar and a Gibson ES 339. Maybe even more similar to a CS 336 since they are made the same.

All my other guitars are pretty expensive but I keep going back to this one.

[nic]

Just so we don't all get too confused we should probably reserve the word "Thinline" for semi-hollow body Telecasters.

All the other guitars described here are just semi-hollow guitars.

[derek]

Thanks both for your comments



Sounds nice, but this is going to be MY GUITAR. The one and only, so I'm allowed to pay a bit more for my guitar (my wife told me). In that price range that Samick is very interesting, I haven't ever seen one. I'll ask some friends. Anyhow ... the electronics seems cheapy


There are some reports about yamaha necks twisting with .12 or .13 gauges. I use .12 so SA2200 is not in my list.
I already visited Jack Zuker's blog, this page is guilty of stoping me from buying the Gibson ES335 right now.

Text

My simple summary of this page is: buy the eastman t185 or 186, but you know, I'm afraid of paying half the price for a better guitar, . I don't have a local dealer where I can test both guitars (nor the Samick Royale).

Okie dokie. For additional info, Jack is currently on the hunt for a used 339 himself. He has decided it has the balance of size and sound he is looking for.

[NSJ]

Okie dokie. For additional info, Jack is currently on the hunt for a used 339 himself. He has decided it has the balance of size and sound he is looking for.

You mean Gibson didn't give him one?? He reviewed it very favorably for them.

I have a 339 and I love it! Swapped out the STD neck pup for a Lollar CC for HB route, and it sounds just divine!

[derek]

You mean Gibson didn't give him one?? He reviewed it very favorably for them.

I have a 339 and I love it! Swapped out the STD neck pup for a Lollar CC for HB route, and it sounds just divine!

Hehe, guess not. He apparently has had a few in the past.

[mongrel]

I'll second this opinion. I just bought a used Samick Royale 3 for $300 just because it looked so good. I didn't realize that this guitar sounded and felt so great. The Duncan designed pick-ups sound really good, but I happened to have a couple Gibson pick-ups laying around and installed them. Now there is really no difference between this guitar and a Gibson ES 339. Maybe even more similar to a CS 336 since they are made the same.

All my other guitars are pretty expensive but I keep going back to this one.

The Epiphone Alleykat is another Korean made semi built with the same mono-frame as the Royale line. I traded mine and now regret it because it would be a great modding platform.

[Steve Hoffman]

[Sorry for my mistakes, no english spoken at home!]

The title of this thread may be some sort of "nooo, not again!", well, I know, but I'm trying to gather requirementes for a specific warm sound in a thinline style guitar.

This is my cookbook for the warm sound I'm looking for, please, tell me your experiences and facts with each matter:

1) 24 3/4 neck, lets me use .13 without much tension. There's some kind of darker sound I love. 25.5 seem to be brighter.

2) maple/mahogany neck. Does it makes a BIG difference in sound? I don't think so.

3) Top, solid carved versus laminated. Mos't people say laminated maple gets that warm sound (ES 3xx, JSM 100), I've played a solid carved top for a long time and It wasn't the sound I'm expecting to get. I must also say that that guitar is neck-through, with maple neck, and 25 inches scale. I think laminated is the way to go for the sound I'm looking for.

4) 16 inches versus 15 inches (or less). I like 16 inches guitar, or at least 15.5, but leately I've heard a lot of people talking about "warm sound" on gibson 339. Is it "warmer" than a 335?

5) pickups, I don't think I'm using the bridge pickup. Do you guys use it when playing jazz? If I were to order a custom made guitar wouldn't have a bridge pickup, instead If have a humbucker close to neck, and right behind a P90. Pretty ugly but I would get all I want.

6) who gets that sound? Not talking about the style I play, just some famous guitarrists who get close to the sound I'm looking for:

- Frisell (yeah I know, tele)
- Rosenwinkel
- Brad Shepik (yeah I know, white falcon)
- Monder
- Cardenas


All your comments are welcome. I open this thread after having read all the "my epi sheraton has the warmer sound I've ever heard" posts in lots of forums. I'm really interested in people with a vast experience that have tested/owned a bunch of guitars.

I understand that you mean by "Thinline" a jazz guitar with a thin body, first "invented" for Billy Byrd and Hank Garland, right?

Have to say I've never heard a thinline Gibson type guitar that WASN'T warm sounding to begin with. I mean, you have a hollow guitar with humbuckers. Going to give you some of that jazz sound no matter what the strings, etc. If you're talking about P-90 pickups, just listen to any Grant Green. He used his 330 in a regular way, no mods or anything and his sound is warm (with a little bit of P-90 bite).

I think your playing style and your AMP settings really mean a lot. Any "335 type" guitar is going to give you a basic jazz sound. I feel the style of guitar has to be hollow to so you can get the midrangy tones. Fender's don't really make it in my book. Other than that, I don't really feel the style of top, woods make that much diff anymore. The AMP really does. I love a good carved archtop and have 20 of them. My lams are a TAL FARLOW and a few others. I can pretty much get one to sound like another by mucking around with my amp settings.

At any rate, good luck in your hunt. I doubt a scale change from 24 to 25 is going to change the sound too much. Cranking up or down the treble on your amp IS. Most jazzers just spend their money on the guitar and use any old amp. THE AMP IS CRUCIAL for your tone. Spend money to get the amp you need to get the sound you want.

Have fun!

[marzamonte]

The Epiphone Alleykat is another Korean made semi built with the same mono-frame as the Royale line. I traded mine and now regret it because it would be a great modding platform.

Wow, I've never seen a conbination of Mini-humbucker + Humbucker on a semi-hollow. It seems that the model is not in production anymore.

I understand that you mean by "Thinline" a jazz guitar with a thin body, first "invented" for Billy Byrd and Hank Garland, right?

Have to say I've never heard a thinline Gibson type guitar that WASN'T warm sounding to begin with. I mean, you have a hollow guitar with humbuckers. Going to give you some of that jazz sound no matter what the strings, etc. If you're talking about P-90 pickups, just listen to any Grant Green. He used his 330 in a regular way, no mods or anything and his sound is warm (with a little bit of P-90 bite).

I think your playing style and your AMP settings really mean a lot. Any "335 type" guitar is going to give you a basic jazz sound. I feel the style of guitar has to be hollow to so you can get the midrangy tones. Fender's don't really make it in my book. Other than that, I don't really feel the style of top, woods make that much diff anymore. The AMP really does. I love a good carved archtop and have 20 of them. My lams are a TAL FARLOW and a few others. I can pretty much get one to sound like another by mucking around with my amp settings.

At any rate, good luck in your hunt. I doubt a scale change from 24 to 25 is going to change the sound too much. Cranking up or down the treble on your amp IS. Most jazzers just spend their money on the guitar and use any old amp. THE AMP IS CRUCIAL for your tone. Spend money to get the amp you need to get the sound you want.

Have fun!

Good point Steve, the amp is gonna come half a year from now, and I'll surely post another thread with some subject like "warm amps".

It seems that the "thinline" word have been subdued by fender. Gibson models with TD (ES 335 TDC) means Thinline Dual Pickups. That's why I used that word in my post. Sorry for messing that up, as I wrote in my first message, "no hablo ingles".

The hunting is getting clear, thanks!

[NSJ]

So, Roger has apparently released a new "thin-line" model--a guy on the Gear Page just showed his, even though it's not on Sadowsky's web site--the SS-15.

Weighs in at a whopping 4 pounds, 15 ounces---a 5 lb guitar. I'd be curious to see if anyone else has played this and how it compares to the Jim Hall model.

[derek]

Wow, I've never seen a conbination of Mini-humbucker + Humbucker on a semi-hollow. It seems that the model is not in production anymore.

Jim Soloway routinely matches a mini hum in the neck with a full bucker in the bridge. My semihollow Gosling is configured such. mrs13 has his newer single cut model that has mini buckers also.