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I’m looking at getting this 1988 Eagle. Mahogany B/S and I think Spruce top given the grain pattern (though Heritage told me they thought all mahogany). Either way I was hoping for a lighter guitar with a floating pickup.
Does anyone know what this pickup is ?
Also is there anything to know about this bridge saddle ?
I’d love to. Know your thoughts on what you see…
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05-14-2025 10:46 PM
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I had one of these. I think the pickup is a Floating #3, which is low output with a gorgeous tone. Some want a higher output.
Some claim the mahogany back produces a warmer (more bass) sound. Maybe.
Here is an oldie but goodie giving a good comparison of instruments and pickups. The Golden Eagle with the floater is one I sold to this guy. Note the Kent Armstrong pickup on the Sweet 16. It's hotter than the Floating #3.
Here's a Benedetto floater, which is hotter.
It is not that hard to find someone who will rebuild the Floating #3 if you want a higher output. Consider that this is the #3 and final floater for Heritage for a very long time. It was chosen for its tonal qualities. Ken Rambow made the pickups for Heritage. Heritage and Ken were happy with the #3.
My sense is that anyone good at building pickups and separate the cover from the electronics and make the pickup hotter. Armstrong did this many times. I converted one to a single coil. I also have a guitar with two pickguards, one with the #3 and one with a Benedetto floater.
I would check to see if the guitar is X braced. I wouldn't be surprised. The tops generally were spruce, and yours looks like that. Personally I wouldn't worry much about the bridge. You will not get perfect intonation without adjustable saddles. The intonation will change also by string choice. The bridge is adjusted by sliding and rotating it. If you want more precision, figure out the strings you want and have someone build the precise saddle. I've not ever done that. The stock saddles have been close enough.
I got rid of my mahogany Heritage foolishly in order to get something else. FedEx decapitated it. It was renecked by Aaron Cowles, a master luthier of Gibson fame. Now a friend of mine has it. It's a good model that is a little atypical but worthy.
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BTW, this is not a Classic. It's the Heritage Eagle, which came in maple and mahogany flavors. The latter was less common but sought after. It has a rosewood fretboard and little in the way of cosmetic embellishments. It's a good workhorse jazz box with a warmer tone.
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Ah thankyou for the clarification!
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Thanks for that. Is there a benefit to the X bracing vs parallel?
Also I’ve been asking about weight and they all seem to be pretty heavy. Any idea why that is?
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Archtop guitars are carved from a solid wedge of wood, split in half and glued to form a bookmatched arch. The tops and backs are literally sculpted from that wedge and that's how a guitar goes from being many lbs to ounces. How thick the plates are when you're done determines how resonant, how articulate vs warm, how it projects, how feedback resistant, how punchy the guitar is, but also how hard it needs to be played to get the most out of it. Weight is not the goal, but a consequence of design and execution. It's the builder's philosophy about sound that will determine how much a guitar weighs. It does vary a lot. Archtops built from design origins in the big band era will favour a thicker top and back, have a chunk and punch and project differently than archtops built from designs of the final guitars of Jimmy D'Aquisto, who brought the archtop to a different voice with thinner backs and sides, more in line with the thicknesses of cellos than traditional archtop guitars. Eastmans follow this design. I've also had Campy's that had more responsive lighter and articulate graduations. Again, it's the builder's hand that will effect the finished weight of a carved guitar.
Originally Posted by LJP
As far as X vs parallel bracing. In short, a top plate has various patterns of vibrational patterns, and the lines that are reenforced or braced along or against those (chladni) patterns will effect what characteristics of the free plate are brought out. Parallel (a traditional design in many and most Gibson built designs) bring out a strong fundamental, vibrating strong patterns parallel to the strings. This gives a punchy and deep voice all other things being equal. An X brace tends to vibrate a wider series of harmonics from a given top that imparts a more even voice for each note but sometimes with less amplitude (more even, less loud). ALL OF THIS IS DEPENDENT ON THE BUILDER'S SKILL. A masterful build of any design will outperform a mediocre build of differing type.
It's dangerous to make any generalizations about comparisons in handbuilt archtops, but knowing what you like, what your playing style is, how well you can push the limits of any instrument based on your skill level, all this is way more important than generalized opinion. You know your playing level, you find your match. That's a good policy. You're looking for a partner in making music. Your hands and your ears are the supreme authority.
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Marty, I get sad when I look at pictures of this one that I sold. It was sweet. Thick ebony fretboard and beautiful burst! I miss it. Great guitar. Bit heavy. But had the thick mahogany back, sides, and neck. Got into a long drawn out debate with Patrick about the sunburst, and he educated me on Heritage pickups, that, we all enjoyed.
Great guitars.
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That guitar would be a great guitar. Warm and plenty of sound and to me a Heritage carved top guitar is a sleeper guitar that will eventually I think be quite desirable down the road. An American carved guitar by real craftsmen. Not that they did everything perfect but on the whole make excellent guitars. The mahogany will be a warmer sound and frankly you can try different pickups with the one on it is not to your exact liking.
I own 3 Heritage Carved top guitars and they rival anything Gibson has done or even individual makers. Not a pissing contest but just that they are fine jazz guitars. I would not hesitate to buy a guitar like this if it was on my list.Last edited by deacon Mark; 05-15-2025 at 11:04 PM.
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Makes perfect sense thanks!
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Hi Marty, can you say a little on the progression of the floating pickups regarding #3? What was 1 and 2 and what came after?
thanks!
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Heritage didn’t come out with another new floating pickup design until the debut of their new H717 last month. That is made in house and doesn’t have an official name on their spec sheet yet. Ren Wall suggested (to no surprise) “#4”
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Ah ok fantastic. Do you happen to know that differences between #1,2, and 3?
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That was a good deal on that Eagle. Hope you got it LJP.
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What would be the benefit of hotter pickups? As opposed to just turning up the amp a bit? Originally Posted by Marty Grass
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Ken Rambow made #1 and #2. I have never heard either. I don't know of any production guitars with those. Originally Posted by LJP
I like the #3. It's a low output pickup with a nice sound.
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Without going into a lot of detail, a hotter pickup generally has a bit darker/warmer sound. Originally Posted by LJP
Regarding the video of extensive comparisons of different guitars that Marty posted, I had two thoughts. The first was "how bored was this guy by the end of filming to have played the exact same runs and licks for all of those guitars?" He probably didn't wanna play that song for months afterwards. The second thought I had was how much the sound of a guitar depends on the guitarist. With all those different guitars, you could still hear that it was the same guitarist; the difference in sound between the instruments was a nuance or a seasoning on top of the strong flavor of his playing. Where we play on the neck, how we attack the notes, how we phrase, etc., are so important in the overall sound and the differences between the guitars kind of takes a backseat to that. I thought that video was a really nice reminder of that.
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