Henriksen The Blu vs DV Mark Little Jazz

[rpjazzguitar]

New thread to avoid confusion.

I had a rehearsal and a solo practice session, using both amps.

During the rehearsal (pbgd,voc), I thought the LJ sounded warmer. I preferred it. As quintets go, this one is quiet.

For the solo session I went through my usual ME70 pedalboard into an A/B box -- one switch which toggles. I often didn't know which amp was on. One guitar, Comins GCS-1, HB mode, volume all the way up, various settings on the tone control.

I couldn't make the amps sound alike. The LJ might be described as tending to be warmer while the Blu might be described as tending to be cleaner.

For soloing, the LJ was closer to the sound I go for. I wouldn't say it was cleaner, but I liked the dirt.

For chords, I think the LJ can sound a little harsh. Hard to describe, but maybe less separation of the notes. The Blu was clearer.

So, I preferred the Blu for comping and the LJ for soloing. I use sustained high notes and the LJ reproduced them more warmly. On comping, the Blu had a touch less harshness.

As far as volume goes, the LJ seemed about as loud as the Blu for soloing. Bear in mind that the LJ may be distorting more, but that was ok to me. I think the Blu may be louder for clean sounding chords, but I found this more subtle than I expected.

I tried both amps halfway up and all the way up. Pinning the volume knob didn't really change the results.

I'm aware that the Blu has a lot more power and I'm aware of the nonlinear relationship between wattage and loudness but the loudness difference Blu vs LJ was, nonetheless, less than I expected.

Some caveats: I play a semi, not an archtop. I'm not going for a classic jazz guitar sound. My hearing is impaired to some degree. Others will hear all this differently.

[Gitterbug]

Just to keep the ball rolling, a few comments. Class D power amps are typically linear over a broad frequency range. Tonal differences are more likely to emanate from the preamp, cab architecture and speaker. The Blu has an Eminence OEM speaker, for which I haven't seen a response curve. The presence of a defeatable tweeter and XLR/combi input suggest that the amp has been designed for a more uses than electric guitar alone. Looking at the response curve of a 6.5" Eminence Beta, it's more linear than a typical guitar speaker. DV Mark/Markbass disclose next to no data on their speakers, but it's safe to assume that the 8" speaker on the Little Jazz is distinctly guitar-voiced.

As a general observation, guitarists are far more interested in swapping speakers than bassists. Consequently, the best guitar speakers are well-known and available over the counter, offering a true upgrade vs. the cheap "Special Design" OEM speakers (which aren't bad.) According to my sources, approx. 30% of guitar speakers end up in the retail market. The bass speaker market is magnitudes smaller to begin with, with a bigger percentage by far going to large amp/cab manufacturers on their OEM specs. The bad news is, what's available through distributors to retailers or small-time builders either falls short of OEM quality or costs a fortune - often both.

There's been a lot of interest in 8" guitar speakers lately. Jensen reacted with their Falcon 30. However, the 12" caliber still rules sovereign, multiples over 10", so we may not see too many new 8" entries either, even if a 8" Neo FRFR is high on my wishlist. BTW, I recall somebody pointing out that the LJ speaker is glued in place. Not a prime candidate for swapping.

[sm80808]

how do the Henriksen's sound with amp modelers? (like a Line 6 Helix)

[rpjazzguitar]

My impression is that the Blu sounds more like a PA (ie FRFR) than the LJ. Better? That's a matter of taste. I thought the Blu was better for clean chording and not as warm for lead.

I think that's part of its heritage from the Bud, which made a point about being usable for vocals.

From what I've read from posts on here, the Blu and Bud sound similar, but there are a couple of differences in design.

One, is the input gain control in the Bud. I gather that may be more important in dealing with microphones. But, at least one poster suggested that it can warm up the tone of the Bud. Other posters haven't mentioned that.

The second difference is the center frequencies of the EQ. The Bud has a wider range. Again, something that might be more relevant for vocals than guitar.

So, overall, it looks like the Blu is a single channel take-off on the Bud with some vocal-relevant features changed to focus more on guitar and save a buck on the input gain control.

[rpjazzguitar]

I continued the evaluation today.

This time, I created a couple of loops with my ME70. I put the ME70 into the AB box and then to the amps. The AB box toggles from one to the other. No indication of which one is active (there are lights but I didn't connect power). The AB Box is a mechanical switch. No active electronics aside from the lights connected to the other side of the switch.

So, this allowed for exactly the same signal through each amp and instant switching back and forth.

In this test I preferred the LJ in just about every configuration. It simply sounds warmer. I even turned off the tweeter in the Blu and cranked the two highest frequency knobs all the way down. This was most obvious on high notes but could be heard on lower notes too.

I then recorded some chords on the looper and played those back. At one point I cranked both volume controls to the max. The chords sounded harsh on the Blu, but I dialed that out with the middle EQ knob (hi-mids, 760hz, 9 o'clock). When I got the best, loudest chord sound I could get from each amp, I thought the LJ sounded better and, surprisingly, sounded louder.

I don't think this rules out the usual statement that the Blu has more clean headroom. I'm not sure about that. But in this test, to my ear, the LJ sounded better when both were cranked. And, at lower volumes the LJ consistently sounded warmer.

But then, I took a break and returned to the practice room. This time I played chord melody and I thought the Blu sounded better. A little more clarity -- maybe that mattered more in chord melody.

So, at this point in the process, I think both amps sound good, the LJ has the edge in warmth for lead and sounds a little better on loud chords, which is surprising. The Blu seems to have an edge in clarity which helped most in chord melody.

I am not yet hearing the expected advantage in volume.

[bluejaybill]

It's pretty amazing that the LJ hangs with the Henriksen- I think I Paid $199 for my LJ!

I mainly use it quietly in my office, but it can get pretty loud.

I still think I prefer my tube amp (Fat Jimmy Fender variant), but again, a $2500 amp and the LJ is close!

I would imagine one big factor is durability- I wouldn't want to drop the LJ down a flight of stairs.

[Gitterbug]

Of course, the 2,500$ amp would survive the stairs test without damage.

[rpjazzguitar]

More tests today, this with another set of ears.

My wife thought the LJ was a little more distorted than the Blu.

Surprisingly, the LJ seemed a little louder with them both cranked all the way up.

So, based on today's test, it may be that the Blu has some more clean headroom, but the distortion of the LJ sounds good to me when playing lead. The Blu may have an advantage for loud chords, but the LJ sounds at least as good on quieter chording. The LJ has a warmth as soon as I plug it in that I can't find on the Blu, even after twirling a lot of knobs.

The problem I'm trying to solve is to have a 12 pounds, or so, unit that can cover what I'm doing with the JC55 (big band and small to medium gigs). I don't think either the LJ or the Blu is going to do that.

EDIT: Cutting the high mids on the Blu to 9 o'clock helped get rid of some harshness.

[Tom Karol]

Three options come to mind (only partially tongue-in-cheek - see: An Old Man's New Semi-Modular Rig - 1st Impressions):

1. Get a lightweight 8 Ohm extension speaker to use with one of them.
2. Get a stompbox that can send 1 input to 2 simultaneous outputs to use both of them together.
3. Combine options 1 & 2 - both amps, each with their own extenstion speaker, in tandem.

More things to carry, but none of them need to be very heavy.

[bluejaybill]

Three options come to mind (only partially tongue-in-cheek - see: An Old Man's New Semi-Modular Rig - 1st Impressions):

1. Get a lightweight 8 Ohm extension speaker to use with one of them.
2. Get a stompbox that can send 1 input to 2 simultaneous outputs to use both of them together.
3. Combine options 1 & 2 - both amps, each with their own extenstion speaker, in tandem.

More things to carry, but none of them need to be very heavy.

Yes, speaking for myself, I would consider getting a second LJ for louder gigs, unless it creates a transportation problem.

Currently, I love the sound of the LJ with my (Princeton sized) Fat Jimmy amp. But I'm guilty of enjoying stereo on occasion as well.

Regarding an extension speaker, it would be interesting to see whether that helps clear up the congestion the OP has been hearing in his chords at volume.

I'm getting the impression that the cleans on the Henriksen are "PA" type cleans, like super clean. I think I like a bit of that warm (re distortion) in my sound as well. Probably what I Hear in my tube amps as well.

[rpjazzguitar]

I almost always play through an ME70, which has L and R outputs which are identical. I've sometimes used two amps.

We did a gig where the booker was a musician and was there for the gig. I pointed one amp towards myself and the band and then put the other in front of the stage facing out. I told the booker to adjust that amp's volume to taste. Worked great.

[pingu]

played a little jazz today at a jam
raised up off the floor about 2 feet
it sounded even better like that

[marcwhy]

The Blus/Buds/BAMs/etc. warm up nicely (especially if you like the "distortion" of the loud LJ) with certain pedals; a kind and knowledgeable member here recommended the Fairfield Circuitry "Modele B" pedal, and I love it with my mini BAM/Toob rig! [This is an "always on" pedal, but if you want control over when you use it, try its big brother, the "Barbershop!"]

[rpjazzguitar]

Next test.

I ran the A side of the splitter, first into a Yamaha MG10XU mixer and thence into a Mackie SRM350 v.1.

B side of the splitter, first into the Blu and then I replaced the Blu with the LJ.

I tried to match volume with the two smaller amps. What I found was that the Mackie sounded fuller, clearer at matched volumes and could, of course, go way louder. Better.

Both the Blu and Bud sounded harsher on chords than the Mackie. More similar to each other than to the Mackie.

Is this a fair comparison? Perhaps in a weightless environment with plenty of storage space. And money no object. So, unfair. But not really uninformative. At higher volumes, I can no longer tell myself I'm getting an excellent sound from the small guys.

[Tal_175]

Next test.

I ran the A side of the splitter, first into a Yamaha MG10XU mixer and thence into a Mackie SRM350 v.1.

B side of the splitter, first into the Blu and then I replaced the Blu with the LJ.

I tried to match volume with the two smaller amps. What I found was that the Mackie sounded fuller, clearer at matched volumes and could, of course, go way louder. Better.

Both the Blu and Bud sounded harsher on chords than the Mackie. More similar to each other than to the Mackie.

Is this a fair comparison? Perhaps in a weightless environment with plenty of storage space. And money no object. So, unfair. But not really uninformative. At higher volumes, I can no longer tell myself I'm getting an excellent sound from the small guys.

Wait, Mackie sounds better than Henriksen? Interesting. I would think that Henriksen would be more guitar friendly. Is it because Mackie has a 10 inch speaker? What's the downside of Mackie then, weight?

Maybe you should get a tonemaster deluxe and call it a day.

[rpjazzguitar]

The Mackie is much bigger and nearly 2.5x the weight. It also requires a mixer to be effective. (Iirc, the later versions don't have that problem, but I have the original).

[DanielleOM]

Lately I find I am using my Bud 6 and my Little Jazz amps.

With my archtops and my semi-hollow nylon string guitar, I prefer the Bud 6.

However, I still use my Little Jazz with my Reverend Pete Anderson Eastsider T (telecaster style) guitar. There's something about that combination that I like.

[rpjazzguitar]

Another day of testing. Again, a Comins GCS-1 strung 11-42 with Fender strings.

This time with a JC55 (two 25 watt amps each feeding an 8" speaker in one box) along with the Blu and Bud.

Results:

For moderate volume lead work, the LJ gave me my sound better than the others. It's richer sounding in the upper register.

For high volume the JC55 was best. It's way louder than the others. I had to dial down the highs to avoid some unpleasant sharpness.

For moderate volume chordal work, they all had some harshness I wish I could eliminate. It may be the guitar. Don't know. I went back and forth between the Blu and LJ. Maybe the Blu had a little less harshness, but it was close.

If I had to sing, I'd take the Blu and a mixer. I don't do it often. If I did, I'd have bought the Bud.

I'll test the Blu with a big band tonight.

The new JC40 is the closest in wattage to the JC55 (it's two 20 watt amps) and runs $700 or so. The LJ runs $400 or maybe $350 with a code. The Blu is $1050 or so with a code.

For someone who likes the sound of the Blu, it would be worth considering a Bose S1 with a pedal or two for EQ and maybe warmth.

EDIT: Tonight I used the Blu in my big band and got complaints that I wasn't loud enough. Eventually, I turned it all the way up -- volume knob pinned. That, finally, was loud enough. And, it sounded good. I'm disinclined to rely on an amp that has to be pinned.

[rpjazzguitar]

One more post on it.

Had another rehearsal. This time with the A/B switch connected so I could go back and forth. After some switching, I ended up using the LJ for everything. The Blu could be described as cleaner, but in my situation I'd describe it as colder or more sterile. This was at quintet rehearsal volume.

At big band rehearsal volume, as I noted earlier, it had to be completely maxed out. Volume knob pinned. That worked, but what if I had to be any louder? My old JC55 handles that easily. The Blu did not.

None of this obviates the reports from others, generally archtop players, who love the amp. But it looks like it's not going to work for me. The LJ sounds better (warmer) for the quieter stuff and the Blu isn't loud enough for the loud stuff.

[Fusionshred]

The Henriksen amps are phenomenal, high-quality, professional high-fidelity amps that are super clean. I’ve always thought of the Little Jazz as being the modern Polytone. Much more of a “guitar amp” with more color. Smokier, darker, more compressed….

A/B against a Blu 10, the LJ runs out of steam at the highest volume levels, but it’s louder than one would think given that it’s 50 watts vs 120.

But that digital reverb…

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

A/B against a Blu 10, the LJ runs out of steam at the highest volume levels, but it’s louder than one would think given that it’s 50 watts vs 120.

Remember that doubling the output of an amp only yields a 3 dB increase in SPL, and that’s if all other things are equal and optimal. And that increase only becomes available at maximum output, which is where distortion is at its highest in all amps (except early SS with its high harmonic distortion at very low output levels as well as at the top). Louder is not always better

So going from 50 to 120W will up maximum SPL by no more than 3 plus a low fraction dB, which is not much difference in perceived loudness.

[sgosnell]

Turning down the bass will lower overall volume by a lot, as will turning down (especially) the mids or even the treble. Tilting or raising the amp will also tend to increase volume heard at some distance.

[rpjazzguitar]

Remember that doubling the output of an amp only yields a 3 dB increase in SPL, and that’s if all other things are equal and optimal. And that increase only becomes available at maximum output, which is where distortion is at its highest in all amps (except early SS with its high harmonic distortion at very low output levels as well as at the top). Louder is not always better

So going from 50 to 120W will up maximum SPL by no more than 3 plus a low fraction dB, which is not much difference in perceived loudness.

The LJ manual lists it at 45 watts into 8 ohms.

The Blu manual mentions 120 watts. It says that an external speaker should be at least 8 ohms and be able to handle 150 watts. It doesn't say anything specific about the resistance in ohms of the internal speaker.

How unsafe is it to assume that these are comparable units? I claim no expertise, but I am aware that there are multiple factors that can influence a wattage rating.

And then, there's the speaker and the box. Sensitivity varies, I'd assume.

Finally, even though at a high volume one might be measured as having more distortion than the other, I would assume that it's possible that the distortion could sound good, or, acceptable, to the user.

I have the impression (not an established fact) that the LJ is designed for the distortion to sound warm (or maybe it's designed to be warm no matter what level). I don't get that impression about the Blu. My guess is that it's designed to be clean all the way up the volume knob.

BTW, I have run the LJ fully maxed with the internal speaker off, into a mixer and thence to a powered speaker. I did not hear any obvious distortion. That may conflict with the previous paragraph, but that was how it sounded to me.

Another test today. My son, strumming jangly (to my ear) chords on a Strat copy (middle pu) liked the Blu better than the LJ. It's brighter. Bug for me, feature for him.

I then plugged him right into my Mackie SRM350. He thought the Mackie and the Blu sounded the same. Maybe he's hearing the FRFR voicing of each.