Can some feedback-resistant guitars compare to a full size archtop?

[banjohood]

I recently bought a used player-condition Eastman AR810CE with floating pickup. I love the sound, and especially through an amp or PA plugged in. I gig regularly, but found I could not play live with this guitar because of the feedback threshold. I made some foam plugs for the F-holes, which helped. But it got me looking at other archtops for even more feedback resistance (I played nothing but a Telecaster for 20 years previously). At a local store, I was able to try Eastman AR480CE, Eastman Romeo, Eastman AR146, vintage Gibson ES175, and a few others. Compared with my AR810, nothing had the acoustic fidelity or dynamics—like when I really dig in, the guitar just gave more. I didn’t find the set-ups that different. So asking you more experienced with archtops, does it take a 17” solid wood acoustic archtop to really achieve that sound plugged in?

[Cunamara]

Hmmm, it's hard to say anything definitive because, of course, every guitar is slightly different- even between ostensibly identical models.

I have a carved 17" archtop with a floater, an Ibanez GB10, a Gibson ES-175. They all sound different but to my ears they all sound great. The GB10 is the most feedback resistant of the lot and is also the guitar I get the most compliments about my tone, for whatever that's worth. On recordings of gigs, they really sound about the same once the bass, horns and drums get going. Nuances are washed out by the other instruments. I end up just sounding like me, for better and for worse. If I didn't specifically recall which guitar it was, I couldn't reliably tell them apart (unless there is feedback, then it's the archtop).

In my living room or maybe one other player, I can hear some differences. The Ibanez's response is quick like a snare drum, the archtop blooms a little more like tom-tom. The ES-175 is somewhere in between.

[arnie65]

I recently bought a used player-condition Eastman AR810CE with floating pickup. I love the sound, and especially through an amp or PA plugged in. I gig regularly, but found I could not play live with this guitar because of the feedback threshold. I made some foam plugs for the F-holes, which helped. But it got me looking at other archtops for even more feedback resistance (I played nothing but a Telecaster for 20 years previously). At a local store, I was able to try Eastman AR480CE, Eastman Romeo, Eastman AR146, vintage Gibson ES175, and a few others. Compared with my AR810, nothing had the acoustic fidelity or dynamics—like when I really dig in, the guitar just gave more. I didn’t find the set-ups that different. So asking you more experienced with archtops, does it take a 17” solid wood acoustic archtop to really achieve that sound plugged in?

That's why so many players preferred laminated plywood guitars, like the ES175 for example. There's hardly any feedback on those, the thicker the plywood the better. I had to get F plugs for the new Ibanez PM3C because of the feedback, however my old Ibanez FG-100 which is laminated plywood, plays perfectly fine without any feedback. Also one of the reasons that Pat Martino had Benedetto design his signature model without F holes, as opposed to his old Gibson signature model, no feedback at all !!!



Cheers,
Arnie...

[Hammertone]

… So asking you more experienced with archtops, does it take a 17” solid wood acoustic archtop to really achieve that sound plugged in?

Yes.

[Alter]

Gibson seems to handle feedback a bit better than others, probably due to experience. I've watched people play L5s and Super 400 live without any problems, but the stages were decent, not your average bar and function.

You can have a guitar with a laminate back, or fully laminate, or a 16" with a slightly thinner body. Won't sound the same, but it can be a great jazz sound also.

I remember a Mark Whitfield interview where he talked about the subject, saying he has all these great archtops at home but can't really use them on a gig. I have two archtops and have come to the same conclusion. You have to play low volume, become an expert in positioning and eqing the guitar, learn to not need to hear yourself that loud, etc etc.. It's just easier to get a laminate.

[Hammertone]

It just takes a bit of work to make the 17" carved archtops work for higher-volume situations, along with a basic understanding of the physics of guitar feedback. The easy solution is a 17" carved archtop with some combination of a slightly shallower body, a pickup or pickups set into the top, and a top that is carved a little thicker and/or has more and/or heavier bracing. Maybe a post added under the bridge. This was all figured out in the last 70 years by companies like Gibson, Guild and others.

The trade-off is simple - one gives up some acoustic volume in exchange for reducing the tendency to feedback at higher volumes. The bonus is that one can perform with a 17" carved-top instrument, because NOTHING feels or sounds the same.

[Oscar67]

Something like an Ibanez GB10 bridges the gap. Through an amp it definitely sounds like a jazzbox. No feedback. Unplugged, it sounds like the laminate hollowbody that it is.

Currently I have three hollowbodies: the GB10, an Eastman Romeo and a PRS 594 Hollowbody II. They sound completely different from each other and to me, that’s exactly the point. Personally I’m not looking for the classic L5 or 175 sound and that leaves me free to explore. The Romeo, for example, is a wonderful jazz guitar.

[GuyBoden]

I've always been intrigued that listening to live professional acoustic solo Classical Guitar performance there has been no feedback issues.

Mostly, I have seen them using a simple setup, a Condenser mic, a Classical guitar, a mic Preamp, with the amp in front.

Amplifying the Classical Guitar: Ultimate Guide of Techniques, Tips, and Equipment for Solo Performances, Guitar with Orchestra or Choir, Ensembles, and Duos