Epiphone Bridges?

[BlueBic]

I've got an Epiphone Triumph with a non-original bridge (cheap self-adjusting two-foot type) and although it sounds just unbelievable already, I can't help but wonder what it's "supposed" to sound like. I notice for one thing that the original bridges are considerably thicker on the bass side. I can't seem to find any original bridges, and any similar ones I did see a while back were just ridiculous price wise. Is there someone who could fabricate an accurate bridge, or has a bridge they're willing to let go? Apologies if this is the wrong forum.

[wintermoon]

I doubt a thicker base will make a discernable difference

[BlueBic]

The base design is also different; the current one has two feet with a space in the middle, and the original bridge is full contact. Maybe it won't make a difference but I also just like things to be original.

[wintermoon]

A solid base might make a difference depending on the particular guitar.
Any competent luthier should be able to make a suitable repro or you can look for an original if you want it period correct. An orig will likely be expensive of course.
What year and finish is the Triumph, blonde Epis frequently got a light colored pearwood base and rosewood top in the later 40s and 50s as opposed to all rosewood.

[JCat]

For reference: Bridge Base Question - Full or Feet?

I understand that you are interested in the visual appearance and like things to be "original". Apart from that; there's no evidence or general consensus that a solid "one foot" (full contact) base would be better than a "two feet" (violin type) base. There is consensus however, that you stand a better chance of having a good fit (solid contact) with a two feet base.

[AllanAllen]

Where do you live? That'll give a baseline reference for recommendations. Also, do you want to ship the guitar?

Actually, here's an even better question, what is your budget for this bridge?

[BlueBic]

Thanks for the responses guys. My budget for the bridge itself would be 200 bones (assuming an original is available) plus 100 for the fitting. I live in the DMV, and I would rather not ship as that might end up being 300+ and that hardly seems worth it for such a small job. I'd like to keep this as simple as possible. Frankly another big reason I want to replace the bridge is that there is a minute but noticeable (< 1mm) sink in the top under the bass side foot. I'd like to kill that before it becomes a real problem. If this was a normal bridge with a solid base all around I wouldn't suspect it, but it's a cheap self-adjusting type that is extremely flexible in the center, and without that rigid center to support it the feet bear a lot more force. I think it originally came on a Gibson ES-175, which makes sense since the thick plywood tops on those things can handle a lot more pressure. The top on this guitar is paper thin, and is thinnest in the center exactly where the bridge sits.

[JCat]

Hmm, this is interesting and raises the question of bridge pressure and string tension balance.

-What strings do you use and what's the string height/"action" on the bass-side and treble side respectively? -Do you play acoustic or amplified?
-What's the year model? What strings did it come with when new? (The history of flatwounds for guitar is obscure. This is a long scale guitar, 25.5", meaning tension and corresponding bridge pressure is higher than on a 24.75" scale).

Yes, there's an element of compression that pertains to the top as well as the bridge. When it comes to the effective bridge radius, it would be affected by any bridge sag as well as any tilt. Note that bridge sag affecting the radius pertains solely to the height adjustable bridge body, in this case a one-piece slotted wooden saddle, and is independent of any bridge foot sag. The fact that a two feet base is flexible won't affect the integrity of the wooden saddle.
Body top compression could be identified also on solidbody guitars and is not a phenomenon unique to archtops, but obviously a thin spruce top could be expected to compress more than a ply top, a semi or a solid body.

Compression, of the top and/or the bridge, is identified when turning the thumbwheels; It's like jacking up a car on a soft lawn (the jack sinks down into the ground).
One could argue that the archtop design builds on the element of compression; It's supposed to compress, which affects sound and feel.
Compression is a form of deformation that's either elastic or "plastic" (i.e permanent). In your case you've spotted a minor imprint in the top, but we don't know if that's permanent or not?

Now you like to distribute the load on a larger (one-foot base) area, "before the problem gets worse" (permanent?)
In my experience, the string load distribution over the bridge/saddle is very important in order to achieve the desired response from the instrument. It's not only a matter of string type and gauge, but also on your setup decisions (neck relief, action, bridge slope, string slots, tailpiece and break angle etc.)

Finding the optimal string load distribution is about balancing the characteristics and idiosyncrasies of the individual guitar to the preferences of the individual player (You); some guitars require more string tension than others. Not all guitars play well with heavy gauge, not all of them play well with light gauge. Archtops are purposely designed to carry heavy strings, elasticity is a feature...provided the guitar flexes in the right spots... that's the very goal of the setup.
Now you suspect that the non-original two-feet bridge base has a detrimental effect on performance (immediate and/or long term). I understand that you won't have peace of mind until you've tried a one-foot bridge base. I'm open-minded and interested in what others have to say...

Edit: -Do you store it in it's original case? (bad things happen when a hard case is too tight)

[AllanAllen]

You live in the Department of Motor Vehicles?

[BlueBic]

Haha I'm sorry, it's what locals call the DC-MD-VA region. I'm so used to referring to it this way that I forgot most people outside the area aren't familiar with that term. Fun fact the Department of Motor Vehicles is called the MVA here.

[AllanAllen]

Haha I'm sorry, it's what locals call the DC-MD-VA region. I'm so used to referring to it this way that I forgot most people outside the area aren't familiar with that term. Fun fact the Department of Motor Vehicles is called the MVA here.

Thanks, unfortunately, I don't know any luthiers in that area. But I would think such a heavily populated region should have a few. Hopefully someone with more knowledge will chime in.

[ThatRhythmMan]

Maybe try Aaron Wald. He’s a young archtop builder who also works at PRS.

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[BlueBic]

These are all great suggestions; I found one guy that's a bit closer than Wald and if I need any serious work done I'll probably send it to him. By the way ThatRhythmMan, your Epiphone review videos were a big help when shopping for an archtop in the first place, thanks. I was able to snag an original Epi bridge from a forum member and I'll see if the local music store (which has a competent but not superlative repair shop) can fit it.

[ThatRhythmMan]

I’m glad I could help!


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[fws6]

Chiming in too late

I omce had a 53 Triumph in blonde, that had a pearwood bridge base and a rosewood saddle as was sometimes done on the blondes

I replicated that bridge as precisely as I could but never fitted it or installed adjustment wheels (so just the wooden parts)

but you already found an original right ? So not of any use right now. Good luck with your project !