Initial impessions of the new Toob Metro 8

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

As most of you know, Gitterbug (an accomplished jazz guitarist, long time active JGO member, and the inventor & builder of Toob speakers) and I became friends through our interaction on this forum. I have absolutely no connection with Toob other than having been named by G'bug as a "Toob Ambassador" after evaluating and using them on many gigs. So I've been helping him by evaluating his new ideas and providing my honest feedback, whether positive or negative. I've had a fair amount of "constructive criticism" because I certainly haven't liked everything about every model I've tried. He's been gracious about hearing it all and has made changes in response.

I now have one of the new 8" Metros, which use the same cabinets as the Metro 6.5s except with a few mm more depth and a few ounces more weight. They currently have Jensen Falcon 8 drivers in them, which make some very full bass with a seamed cone, a ferrite magnet, and a 30W power handling capability. The Metro 8's low bass is a tiny bit looser than the Metro BG+, but it's far from flabby and stays clean going a bit further down. The Falcon 8's response curve on an IEC infinite baffle is about 7 dB down at 70 Hz, and it has a gentle broad 3 to 4 dB rise between 100 and 300 Hz over the mean SPL between 100 Hz and 4kHz. In the Toob enclosure (which has 4 damped vents in the back that do a great job of smoothing the low end), the Falcon does a remarkable job of preserving the character of the guitar's lowest notes. Of course, the lowest note on a 6 string guitar is "only" 82.4 Hz. But as you'll hear in the clip below, the 8 does a remarkable job with the low A on a 7 string, and there's great clarity of the notes in chords using the bottom strings.

Here's the Metro 8 next to an original 6.5" Metro BG+ for size comparison. Those orange spacers fill the slight gap between the ends of the speaker/grille retaining ring halves. As you can see, the overall OD of the grille surround is only a few mm larger than the 6.5's. There's no noticeable difference in size or weight.



The 30W "limit" hasn't been a problem, in large part because the driver is about 6 dB more sensitive than the SICAs in Metro 6.5s and is audibly louder than the Metro BG+ with the same guitar and amplifier settings. I've used it on blues gigs driven by my D V Mark EG250 whose 125 W output had Gitterbug a bit on edge. I kept the volume in check and it was fine - but in truth, we rarely use more than 10W in most performances of any kind in small clubs and I heard absolutely no signs of distress. I don't use hard distortion effects, which really boost output because of the spectral splashes from sharp waveform transitions like sawtooth, triangle, and square waves. It sounded great with my Smokin' Amp Company Zensation, which is a smooth low drive pedal like a Zen. Between its increased efficiency and tonal characteristics, I think the Metro 8 is better suited for blues, rock, and similar genres than the 6.5" Metros I've tried while still being a great jazz speaker cab. I also used the 8 with a Quilter Microblock, which turned out to be a very gigworthy combo. And it's probably the best light, portable cabinet of all for a SBUS because that pairing covers such a wide variety of tones.

But the real joy came with my laminated Ibanez AF207 archtop (Benedetto B7 pickup, heavy Benson TIs + a 75 Chrome 7th) through the EG250. I was practicing with this setup, and it sounded so good to me that I decided to record my noodling on No Moon at All (which is one of my favorite tunes). I'll leave you with this track, which starts with a solo intro before the backing track comes in. It was recorded using my TASCAM DR-40x as a DAI with its crossed cardioids 1 cm in front of the grille and slightly offset from the center. There is no processing at all, and the only effect is the amp's light reverb. You can hear the power of the 7 string bottom end, the round mellow tone across the frequency spectrum, and the way the speaker adds a bit of wood to a heavy laminated box with a thick top. On a lark, I decided to toss in a little double lead on a few phrases, to show the smooth clarity and sparkle of the high end and the lack of harshness. See what you think and please express yourselves freely. You don't have to like it just because I do, and Gitterbug will be able to use your feedback to further improve his product.

[Rob MacKillop]

I don’t like the recording…I love it!

That’s all.

[kris]

Very good sound and playing!!!

[wintermoon]

"even Fido is afraid to bark..."
that's an old largely forgotten tune, though recently has gained some traction among the hip younger crowd.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

"even Fido is afraid to bark..."
that's an old largely forgotten tune, though recently has gained some traction among the hip younger crowd.

Hey - I resemble that remark!! In fact, I'm often mistaken for a hip young crowd.

I've always loved the tune, and there are so many great versions of it - Ella, Julie, Jonah Jones, Nat Cole, Kai & JJ, Kenton, Urbie Green etc. I think my favorite is Herb Ellis with Previn, Manne and Brown:

I really love Stacey Kent's take on it too (with Roberto Menescal on guitar) -

[Ukena]

That sounds fabulous, Nevershould.

I also have both the Metro 6.5 and the 8, and I also find the 8 enhances the low end.

When I bought my EG250 (largely because of Nevershould and others singing its praises), I already had the Metro 8 and had tried it with my SBUS. But when I hooked up the Raw Dog to it, I was in heaven. The sound of it made me want to play Moon River, a tune I had never played before but have heard so often it was easy to figure out. I won't post a recording of it here because it pales in comparison to No Moon At All, and because that recording demonstrates the low end so much better than mine.

I also found that the EG250 will power both Metros at the same time, something I can not imagine ever needing, but which is still cool.

[Gitterbug]

What can I say beyond expressing my thanks to Nevershouldhavesoldit for such a thorough and positive review of one of my products? A Toob Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary indeed. Oh yes, I'm far from an accomplished jazz guitarist; rather, a Forrest Gump type who happened to stumble on a leftover piece of corrugated plastic pipe back in 2007...

Ideally, I would like to seat a 8" speaker into 250 mm pipe, which is the next standard size up from 200 mm. Tooling for matching injection-molded clamping rims and stamped metal grills would call for another €€€€ investment which, at soon 78, I'm not ready to foot. 3D printed rims and cloth grills are doable but in small quantities only.

My volumes (100-150 cabs per year) and (too) broad model range do not support speaker purchases direct from manufacturers. I have a very good relationship with the Finnish importer of SICA/Jensen products. We weren't certain about the Falcon 8, so the first order was cautious and there's nothing left. Hence, we'll have to hold our horses until the next speaker shipment arrives late this year or early next.

[StefanoGhirardo]

How wonderful!
To be of some help to Gitterbug's admirable work I tried to find some criticism of the sound, but I can't find any! Smooth, full, balanced tone.
And how good you are Never! Bravo!

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

How wonderful!
To be of some help to Gitterbug's admirable work I tried to find some criticism of the sound, but I can't find any! Smooth, full, balanced tone.
And how good you are Never! Bravo!

Thanks so very much!! I have a bad habit of practicing and trying new things when I should probably focus on more perfect playing. Right now I'm trying to learn circular picking for faster runs, but the imprecision is obvious. I hope it's more successful in the long run than my attempts to learn sweep picking have been .....

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I also found that the EG250 will power both Metros at the same time, something I can not imagine ever needing, but which is still cool.

I find that two Toobs are definitely better than one. I position one to fire forward and one to fire either up or towards the nearest wall (depending on the performance area). The combination of direct and reflected energy produces a much bigger sound that reminds me of Martin Taylor’s back when he played a Yamaha archtop wired in stereo.

It works even at very low volumes and really makes the 7 string into George Van Eps’s lap piano for solo gigs like restaurants. The EG250 is probably overkill, but that little tube front end just sounds so good to me at any volume.

[wintermoon]

Hey - I resemble that remark!! In fact, I'm often mistaken for a hip young crowd.

I've always loved the tune, and there are so many great versions of it - Ella, Julie, Jonah Jones, Nat Cole, Kai & JJ, Kenton, Urbie Green etc. I think my favorite is Herb Ellis with Previn, Manne and Brown:

I really love Stacey Kent's take on it too (with Roberto Menescal on guitar) -

I have that Previn record and know the Kent one.
The first recording I heard was Doris Day, then Robert Goulet believe it or not.
But it's also on this Flo Handy record I bought a long time ago w a couple competent guitarists
Full disclosure, I bought it for the competent guitarists.

Sorry, back to your regularly scheduled Toob review.....

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I have that Previn record and know the Kent one.
The first recording I heard was Doris Day, then Robert Goulet believe it or not.
But it's also on this Flo Handy record I bought a long time ago w a couple competent guitarists
Full disclosure, I bought it for the competent guitarists.

Yeah - Barnes & Kress…..not too shabby.

[Ukena]

Yeah - Barnes & Kress…..not too shabby.

Decades ago, I got a Music Minus One LP with Barnes and Kress – the first track of each two-track song was the two playing a duet, followed by a track of just Kress playing rhythm. It's where I first learned songs from the Great American Songbook.

[kris]

I wonder how the Toobs speakers perform at concerts with a drummer?

[Gitterbug]

I wonder how the Toobs speakers perform at concerts with a drummer?

I have been using a 25W Metro in a swing sextet with a hard-hitting drummer and a heavy-handed pianist for over 100-person audiences. Dead silent crowds, though, as we're old boys playing mostly at pensioners' clubs and retirement homes. My elder son plays rock'n'roll and uses 12" Toobs. All my cabs contain 8 ohm speakers and have two parallel jacks for daisy-chaining a second unit for a loud 4 ohm twin. Recently, there's been revived interest in pairing Metros vertically, i.e. one on top of the other, for an even better sound dispersion. I'm looking into this currently.

[RJVB]

Very good sound and playing!!!

Agreed!

I take it the canned part of what we're hearing is also played over the Toob?

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I take it the canned part of what we're hearing is also played over the Toob?

Thanks!

I’m not sure what you mean by “canned”. My guitar was recorded live through the EG250/Toob combo. I already had a backing track, so I played my guitar through the Toob while monitoring the backing track through headphones. For the brief 2 guitar harmony phrases (an experiment I just felt like trying), I played the second guitar lines into an additional track. Then I mixed the guitar parts and the backing track into a stereo master.

None of the backing band was played back through the Toob.

[RJVB]

Then I mixed the guitar parts and the backing track into a stereo master. None of the backing band was played back through the Toob.

Canned - prerecorded.

Was I naive thinking that the backing track would sound as good when recorded off the Toob?

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Was I naive thinking that the backing track would sound as good when recorded off the Toob?

Yes. Toobs are excellent for their intended purpose, but almost no guitar amp / speaker combination approaches high fidelity audio reproduction. Quality audio requires wide, flat frequency response, optimal damping of the drivers, fast transient response, lack of coloration, low harmonic and IM distortion, etc etc. Although many modern amplifier circuits could meet most of those requirements, our amps and speakers are not designed or intended to reproduce full range audio program material.

Just plug your audio source into your guitar amplifier and compare the sound quaity to the same source through your home audio system. There's no comparison. If you use a powered full range speaker system driven by a modeling front end, the powered speaker will do audio much better than a guitar amp.

[RJVB]

Just plug your audio source into your guitar amplifier

Into my what?

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Into my what?

’nuf said! Now I understand why you asked

From the time stereo records became generally available (1959) until I graduated from college, at least one channel of my stereo system was my guitar amplifier. I learned a lot of music that way, and I was used to the sound of live music - so I accepted the compromises of a guitar amplifier as a sound system. But when I finally got a real audio system with matching speakers, I discovered how wonderful good sound was at home.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I wonder how the Toobs speakers perform at concerts with a drummer?

I've used a Metro BG+ with a SBUS for quintet gigs (tenor, keys, me, bass, drums) and had no problem at all. And I've used a SBUS / 10" Toob with a blues band (The Dukes of Destiny, a long time Philadelphia area favorite) that has keyboard, harmonica amplified through a Vibrolux, bass, drums, and me. We played some large venues with this rig, including World Cafe Live and the auditorium in the Ethical Society of Philadelphia. It kept up just fine and got many compliments about my tone and sound.

Just for kicks (and despite having a backline with a VIbrolux, a CS Princeton, and a Jazz 12), I tried the Metro 8 and EG250 combo with my long time blues band (The Philly Blues Kings). We're two guitars, tenor, amplified harmonica, bass and drums. The 8 kept up with the rest of the band as well as the Vibrolux does. This was the gig that upset Gitterbug when he heard I'd used a 125W head into the 8. But it was an easy task for the amp & speaker - I never turned the amp volume up past about 11 o'clock and the guitar volume pot past about 3/4 up.

[Ukena]

Here's the Metro 8 recorded acoustically, with a vocal as well. This is Triggs New Yorker –> DV Mark EG250 –> TOOB Metro 8 –> Tula mic, then the wav recording was transferred to my computer and thence to Soundcloud:

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Here's the Metro 8 recorded acoustically, with a vocal as well. This is Triggs New Yorker –> DV Mark EG250 –> TOOB Metro 8 –> Tula mic, then the wav recording was transferred to my computer and thence to Soundcloud

Gorgeous! But "baritone uke"? Curious minds want to know....

[RJVB]

’nuf said! Now I understand why you asked

Actually, I was aware that (e-)guitar amps are rather lo-fi than hi-fi, and it would stand to reason that the usual speakers are more designed for optimum efficiency (and durability) in the frequency bands that matter. So the actual reason I asked was because I allowed myself to be impressed (but should have phrased my question differently).

Here's the Metro 8 recorded acoustically

Do you mean used with an acoustic instrument as input (doesn't sound that way)? Never's recording of the Toob was acoustic too (using a field recorder rather than a (fancy?) mic into an audio interface etc.