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Thanks Tal!
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10-04-2024 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by joe2758
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Originally Posted by joe2758
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I put 12s on instead of 14s, and it's a good thing I did because I could barely get my low E to fit in the tail piece! I also think any bigger would need filing the nut.
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Thats funny...I have their finger tailpiece on my '90 S 16 and put 56s on the bass no problem. That was a long time ago and I was told for a while they were not using them because of cost (hearsay) mabey different supplier. That could be a real deal killer for some players. Glad your using 12s and they will be easier on the hands, I bet it sounds killer!
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It does sound killer. It has a good jazz tone even acoustically. But yeah, I was surprised; I had to cut the little fabric winding off with a razor blade to make it fit.
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Originally Posted by joe2758
There are lots of replies already, including options that sound good but cost less.
Many of us love the L-5. You can start with the elegant appearance. Listen to the sound it produces in the hands of an artist expressing feelings. There is nothing missing.
A hole in my life is that Wes Montgomery died before I could see him in person. Instead, I wore out his vinyls. The videos I saw didn't suggest he was unhappy with his L-5. He seemed very at peace with the instrument. I don't think this had to do with a Gibson contract.
Growing up in Kalamazoo and hanging out with the families who worked at Gibson, I can tell you the employees were proud of the L-5 in particular. There were other archtops that were more expensive, but those were felt to be mostly for show or for the very few with excess money. But for a working guitarist playing jazz, it was the L-5.
I don't have an L-5 now. But some time ago, that was the only guitar I had. There is something special about them.
There are those who love the Les Paul Custom. There can be an awe in seeing and holding that instrument. The same can be true of the L-5. That instrument is not the sum of its parts. It's the whole package with its aura.
Here is a tune with Jimmy Smith and Wes Montgomery. I never tire of this. Anything that someone criticises on this recording is at worst just some added character.
Here's some historical analysis.
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Just another jab at L5 lovers, MC has 2 of his in the for sale Id take over any L5 for less than a decent condition Gibson, just sayin....
My wifes people are from Kalamazoo also but the pride of Kalamazoo now is called Heritage which continues a roughly 100yr culture of guitar building in the place the truly great Gibsons were once made by the people that are still there following that history.
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I think the OP's original intention was not "what is better than an L5?" but rather "what is a better value than an L5?". Two different questions.
Better? My opinion is probably nothing in the "CES" bag. There are other guitars that are fancier and other guitars that cover different territory (acoustic archtops, laminates, etc.). But fancier doesn't mean objectively better.
Better value? Sure. I own guitars from Campellone, the 'old guard' at Heritage, and 'lesser' Gibsons like the L-7 that I would say equal my L-5. All of those carry lower price tags too.
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The question of "What Beats an L5" is open for interpretation, since it is totally subjective. It' like asking "What Beats a Cadillac", or "What Beats a Ferrari". As far a tone, there's a few other guitars that come to mind that can be up to par, or better, as far playability and value, the list gets a little bigger. However, as far as an investment, the L5 is golden! It is the most recognizable, popular, and widely owned archtop, and it's pretty much money in the bank.
Cheers,
Arnie...
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It's more like I was asking "what other full size SUVs with these features should I consider before I buy a cadillac escalade, but I apparently don't have enough money for a cadillac escalade" lol
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I dunno. Having owned 3 I’d rather have a Trenier.
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Part of the pleasure of an L5ces or WesMo is really not the guitar itself, it's sound, or whatever. It's the history. This guitar, along with the ES175, was there at the founding, the creation. When you hold an L5ces, you are standing in the stream of great jazz guitar music that goes back almost to the beginning of jazz. As an archaeologist/historian, I really love that sense of time and continuity.
Others, or course, might not care about this aspect, and that's fine. For the "a guitar is just a tool for making music" player, all this historical stuff is just verbiage. But if you are blessed/cursed with a love for the tradition and the history of the music, "just as good/better than the L5 isn't going to satisfy.
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Originally Posted by joe2758
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Originally Posted by joe2758
In order to attach the Benedetto style tailpiece, you need a so-called Sacconi type of cable much like a violin or cello to anchor to the endpin. A small piece of binding is needed to cushion the cable where it bends over the top plate. Here's my 90 Benedetto's set up. Note I installed a strap pin to take the pressure off the endpin jack:
The ball end of the strings require nothing more than a slight bend to catch the eyelet in the tailpiece. I've done this so many times during a string change I don't even think about it:
So yes, it's possible to do this on your Heritage. However, along the way some builders got smart and produced a metal tailpiece with a wood facia-looks great and easier to retrofit. I would cite the tailpiece on my Eastman Pisano 880 as an example.
Nothing really "beats" a L-5, however I am in the Benedetto camp and have been for 30+ years. It's a different approach and one of the reasons Bob is regarded as a innovator and master of Archtop construction.
Enjoy your new guitar!
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Awesome post, thanks!!!
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Originally Posted by joe2758
Keith
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Originally Posted by SierraTango
Apart from its appearance, I’m not unhappy with the metal tailpiece that came on it. So I haven’t been motivated to spend the money on having the binding cut and spliced. But I see what appears to be a cover of some sort over the binding on yours, with holes where the cable crosses the edge. So the Sacconi connector is pressing directly on the original binding. What is that cover piece and why did you decide to use it instead of cutting the binding and adding the bone piece?
I may be imagining it, but I think I see at least 2 linear irregularities of some kind in the top running roughly concentric with the binding and just inside it on the treble side of the tailpiece. There’s a small area along the one further from the binding that looks like a bit of the finish is lifting. Are these irregularities real or pictorial artifacts? If real, they make me think that the bone saddle is truly necessary to reduce long term effects of high pressure on the top from the two cable segments.Last edited by nevershouldhavesoldit; 10-11-2024 at 01:23 PM. Reason: typo
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Originally Posted by floatingpickup
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Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
I will answer your questions as best I can and include a couple more photos of the area. First, what I think you are referring to as a "cover piece" on the rim is the bone saddle that takes the pressure and tension from the Sacconi cable. Difficult to see, however the binding stops short of center and the bone cushion is not on top of binding. I did not do this, this was the way Bob did it in every Benedetto I've encountered. Second, I think what you are seeing in the photo is partly pictorial artifacts and some finish checking in the area. The guitar is approaching 35 years old in is no case queen, however the assembly is completely stable and the guitar stays in tune perfectly. IMHO, you need the bone saddle but I don't know if it would be critical to eliminate the binding beneath it.
Bass Side:
Treble Side:
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Originally Posted by joe2758
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Originally Posted by SierraTango
The AF207 has been my main gigging archtop since I bought it in 1997. I put a Benedetto B7 pickup in it, and it’s been a wonderful guitar that still plays and looks like it did the day I picked it up. But the tailpiece has always looked a little tacky to me and I’d love to have a wooden one.
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And this!
Bass guitar or double bass ? What do you prefer...
Today, 07:11 AM in Other Styles / Instruments