What beats an L5?

[spencer096]

A Gibson is a guitar made in a factory for a specific price point. The decisions made regarding design, materials even finish are made by corporate business men. Profit is the only goal and has to be to keep the concern alive. The work is done by factory workers trained in specific operations. Even Hutch clocked out at the end of the day. A luthier made guitar is made by one master (hopefully) craftsman for you with no other concern and the finest selected materials available to him tailored to your specs. And doesnt get to clock out till your guitar is done and your happy. "Better" in the way a custom tailored suit from a fine tailor would be compared to off the rack at mens warehouse, from 10' away you wouldnt see the difference but the wearing experience is night and day.

hmm...not so sure about that bolded part.

[floatingpickup]

I have a number of 17 inch guitars and to tell the truth my L5 feels the biggest of the 17 inch guitars I have. In fact it feels a bit bigger than one of my 18 inch guitars because the upper bout more pinched and the guitar is a bit thinner.

That said Jack's L4ces checks all the boxes except it is not an L5. The only folks who would even know the difference are mostly on this forum.

I used to have a lovely L4CES ( the version with maple b/s). I have owned several ES-175’s and L5’s over the years. The L4 didn’t sound like a 175 or an L5. Somewhere between the two. Very nice, but it had its own sound.
Keith

[deacon Mark]

hmm...not so sure about that bolded part.

The 2 guitar builders I worked with and knew had their shop attached to the house. It was a dangerous thing in they could go out and simply work all the time. Bill Hollenbeck said to me I love to build guitars, but I like to do many other things. I am not about to go live in my shop. Factory vs Luthier individual is always a situation of pros and cons. The only exceptions are when you have someone like Mark Campellone who simply can do it all no matter the task, they the choice is obvious. That said at the moment his guitars and Gibson L5s are neck and neck...pricewise in the used market.

[GuyBoden]

I used to have a lovely L4CES ( the version with maple b/s). I have owned several ES-175’s and L5’s over the years. The L4 didn’t sound like a 175 or an L5. Somewhere between the two. Very nice, but it had its own sound.
Keith

Yes, the L4c are very nice carved archtop smaller 16 inch guitars.

[spencer096]

The 2 guitar builders I worked with and knew had their shop attached to the house. It was a dangerous thing in they could go out and simply work all the time. Bill Hollenbeck said to me I love to build guitars, but I like to do many other things. I am not about to go live in my shop. Factory vs Luthier individual is always a situation of pros and cons. The only exceptions are when you have someone like Mark Campellone who simply can do it all no matter the task, they the choice is obvious. That said at the moment his guitars and Gibson L5s are neck and neck...pricewise in the used market.

no doubt there's luthiers like this...but there's also a lot of em that'll be happy to take your money and turn a 9 month wait into saying you should've expected 18 after you finally got the guitar youre not happy with in 24. or just straight up disappear with a dozen deposits in their wallet.

there's one in particular that i dealth with...i somehow got my $1,500 deposit back but he left a trail of pissed off customers on the guitar's yahoo page (lol yea it was a different time). without naming names, it was a company the founder sold, who's headless guitars were played by bill frisell, david torn and henry kaiser.

[JazzNote]

$5,000 approx budget. Needs to sound good acoustic and electric. Solid top. Full depth. What would you recommend? I may get an L5 but I want to check for words of warning or wisdom here first.

I would recommend a guitar with a floating pickup - this results in better acoustic sound. The rest ist up to the "individual character" of the instrument. Solid top, full depth (3"or more) and 17" would be my preference. $5000 sounds too little for a L5, but probably a used Heritage or maybe a Campellone would fall into that category.

[Bluedawg]

Cam-pell-own

Isn't it an Italian name?

I feel funny using an anglicized pronunciation.

I have to pronounce that "e" at the end as a long "a" or it just doesn't feel right.

Camp ay lone ay

LOL

Unless otherwise directed by Mark, himself.

[Rickco]

hmm...not so sure about that bolded part.

Your right, if your self employed you never get to clock out

[jazzshrink]

Isn't it an Italian name?
I feel funny using an anglicized pronunciation.
I have to pronounce that "e" at the end as a long "a" or it just doesn't feel right.
Camp ay lone ay
LOL
Unless otherwise directed by Mark, himself.

So, this is Cal zon ee or Cal zon ay?

[Rickco]

So, this is Cal zon ee or Cal zon ay?

In the North Jersey I grew up in a bazzilion years ago in a predominately Italian culture we called pasta noodles, sauce gravy, and calzone pacheese n ham which I later learned meant pot cheese and ham...talk about anglicized. but it sure as hell was never called a cal zonee

[Jimmy Mack]

Just a note on the Wesmo versions sounding better acoustically than the CES versions: When I got my CES last year, I thought it had a very good acoustic sound. A couple of months ago, a customer brought a beautiful Wesmo into my shop to reassemble after he had all of the hardware re-plated. Upon playing the Wesmo after reassembly, I noted that this Wesmo was not nearly as acoustically resonant and pleasing as my CES. So while I agree that a Wesmo should be better acoustically because of only one hole routed in the top, there are exceptions to the rule for a variety of reasons. Therefore, if it is possible to play before you buy (which is sometimes hard these days), then do so.

I played a WesMo today, and while the neck needed an adjustment and other things (the action was uneven and a tad high), it had a pleasant acoustic tone.

What I have experienced, is that, when a guitar is re-assembled, for whatever reasons major or minor, there needs to be a settling-in time. Time after time, those parts, frets, bridges etc., need to "synch" in to the system that is the guitar. The same seems to be true when a guitar comes out of storage, it needs to be played, things in the composite need to be vibrated. Ain't it fun though?

[andrew]

Isn't it an Italian name?

I feel funny using an anglicized pronunciation.

I have to pronounce that "e" at the end as a long "a" or it just doesn't feel right.

Camp ay lone ay

LOL

Unless otherwise directed by Mark, himself.

I am the son of an Italian immigrant and my Italian is decent. In Italy, they would likely pronounce it "Cam-PELL-own-eh" (the emphasis being on the second syllable).

While, we're on the subject, Italian words with apostrophes in them are pronounced as if there was no apostrophe. So it's not "D-Angelico" but rather "Dan-gel-ic-o"

[garybaldy]

I played a WesMo today, and while the neck needed an adjustment and other things (the action was uneven and a tad high), it had a pleasant acoustic tone.

What I have experienced, is that, when a guitar is re-assembled, for whatever reasons major or minor, there needs to be a settling-in time. Time after time, those parts, frets, bridges etc., need to "synch" in to the system that is the guitar. The same seems to be true when a guitar comes out of storage, it needs to be played, things in the composite need to be vibrated. Ain't it fun though?

I have only played one Wesmo, a 2016, just once and found that both E strings easily slipped off the sides of the neck. My 2005 CES doesn't suffer that problem.

[McGregor]

Yep.. sound like a familiar thread…
quick answer- nothing beats a L5.
If you begin with the lead in what beats a L5, you have already began the journey- I recently traveled the same path- bought 2002 “Hutchins” L5 Wes Montgomery… 4 months ago I can’t put it down… a beautiful instrument. Period! A beautifully built, sweet neck that will improve your abilities in multiple ways…You will pay more than $5K.
enjoy the journey as it’s a great way to understand the world of archtops and to appreciate the expertise of our forum, so many talented and helpful people!
best of luck!
McGregor

[jim777]

So, this is Cal zon ee or Cal zon ay?

Where I grew up in the Bronx it was Cal-zone. No ee or ay at the end, but almost all of the last letter vowels were simply not pronounced. Ricott, mozzarell, prosciut, that was how the Italian kids in the neighborhood pronounced those words. Us Irish kids always assumed that was correct, but heck, I've been wrong multiple times just today (according to the bride LOL).

[Stringswinger]

Where I grew up in the Bronx it was Cal-zone. No ee or ay at the end, but almost all of the last letter vowels were simply not pronounced. Ricott, mozzarell, prosciut, that was how the Italian kids in the neighborhood pronounced those words. Us Irish kids always assumed that was correct, but heck, I've been wrong multiple times just today (according to the bride LOL).

I grew up in Manhattan. It was indeed Cal-Zone Just as the cheese on my Hero sandwich was Prov-Alone.

[Navdeep_Singh]

I sold my vintage L5. Damn fine instrument. I bought several 175s , sold them all. Damn fine instruments. I bought 2 1970s oval hole Gibson HRs. Sold them both. Damn fine instruments. There are many instruments that will work just fine, the point is to find one you love playing, and keep on playing. As even EvH said, “rock stars come and go, musicians play until they die”. We’re pretty lucky to have many fine instruments to play, many of which are not nearly as expensive as a mediocre cello for a cellist in the symphony.

[joe2758]

And don't get me started on bologna

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

We’re pretty lucky to have many fine instruments to play, many of which are not nearly as expensive as a mediocre cello for a cellist in the symphony.

We’re luckier than most guitarists realize. Top quality bows are $50k. Raguse has been making bows for about 50 years. They’re probably L-5 level quality and desirability, and they cost as much!



But there’s a world of instruments far beyond anything we know. $100k bowed instruments abound, and the best bows for them cost more than the most expensive Grimes, Benedetto, D’A etc. Instruments like these aren’t “even” Strads, but they’re 6 figure purchases:

[MCampellone]

Isn't it an Italian name?

I feel funny using an anglicized pronunciation.

I have to pronounce that "e" at the end as a long "a" or it just doesn't feel right.

Camp ay lone ay

LOL

Unless otherwise directed by Mark, himself.

Ha - a very entertaining discussion : ) In "proper" Italian, the correct pronunciation of my last name is Cahm-pehl-LO-neh, with accent on the 3rd syllable. However, in many dialects of southern Italy (where my family is from) it's very common to drop the last vowel, so the pronunciation Cahm-pehl-LONE (as in 'Lone' Ranger) is OK, too.

And if we want to get really technical, another important (though subtle) aspect of pronunciation is the double consonant, like the "LL" in Campellone. I wasn't aware how important this is til I'd spent time in Italy. In Italian, each letter of a double consonant pair is pronounced, and the meaning of a word can change, depending on whether or not you pronounce it correctly. For example, the word pollo (pronounced POL-lo) means chicken - and the word polo (pronounced PO-lo) means pole, as in North Pole. There are very few words in English that have pronounced double consonants (one example is "bookkeeper") - sound-wise, the effect is like the difference between the word "alienation", and the title of the old sci-fi TV series "Alien Nation" - if you pay attention to the way you say the two, you'll realize there is a subtle difference in pronunciation - in the latter, you kinda hang on the "N" a little longer.
In general, with a few exceptions (like the pronunciation of gl and gn) Italian pronunciation is pretty straightforward - if you see it, you say it : )

[MCampellone]

I am the son of an Italian immigrant and my Italian is decent. In Italy, they would likely pronounce it "Cam-PELL-own-eh" (the emphasis being on the second syllable).

While, we're on the subject, Italian words with apostrophes in them are pronounced as if there was no apostrophe. So it's not "D-Angelico" but rather "Dan-gel-ic-o"

And then there's his former apprentice - Dah-KWEES-toe - I've heard it pronounced Dee-ah-KEES-toe, which would make him Spanish instead of Italian

[joe2758]

I just didn't want to sound like an idiot if I call about one lol

[andrew]

Ha - a very entertaining discussion : )
In general, with a few exceptions (like the pronunciation of gl and gn) Italian pronunciation is pretty straightforward - if you see it, you say it : )

Unless "it" happens to be an H.

[omphalopsychos]

Someone seriously tell me what beats an L5. AFAIK nothing. Does an L5 plugged into a BF vibrolux count?

[MCampellone]

Unless "it" happens to be an H.

Ha - right!