What beats an L5?

[Rickco]

If I was you Id be talking with TRM

[deacon Mark]

"What beats an L-5" in what way? Playing feel? Tone? Resale value?

In terms of holding resale value, almost nothing other than a D'Angelico or D'Aquisto is going to beat an L-5. There is just no way around it.

In terms of playing feel and tone? Those things are so subjective that an intelligible answer can't be given. I think an ES-175 sounds every bit as good, albeit different, as an L-5; indeed, I would say I generally prefer the tone of the ES-175 when I hear them played by others. I have never played an L5 so I can't compare it to my ES-175 (but I like the short scale, even though I'm tall and have big hands, and I'm really liking the 16" body compared to my 17" guitars). But there are many people who think the feel and sound of the L-5 is very much superior to the ES-175 and I can't argue with them because those things are subjective.

And which kind of L-5? An L-5 intended for acoustic playing or an L-5CES intended for amplified playing? Or a Ritenour L-5 signature model?

Tim I can’t believe you have never played an L5. You been playing and around guitars all these years and live in a large metropolitan area?

You just have to go play an L5. I mean like real quick. Any L5 be it a ces or acoustic. Not to buy or even to compare but to just play one. They are not rare and seems every style of music has been played with them.

Go now and be quick about!

[Rickco]

Give a look to a L4CES! To me, most undervalued high-end instrument. Maybe not beating and L5 burt veeeery close and with a warmer tone.

Just my 2 cents.

Not to mention JZ is practically giving his away right here and here you have an endorsement from one of the best players with unquestionable experience with fine guitars.
good call Fred

[tbeltrans]

I know this isn't what the thread is about, but also consider trying some Eastman archtops. You could save a whole lotta cash and end up with something that suits you personally just as well. These won't be L5 replacements, but they are really nice archtops at less cash. Consider that I own a Gibson Citation AND an Eastman Frank Vignola model. I wouldn't get rid of either one.

Tony

[skiboyny]

It's all a preference. Depends on the things you value. L5 is heavy and fat, has 25.5 scale, set pickups. Those things may or may not matter to you. Sound of course is non quantifiable. If you think it sounds better than anything else, and like the above qualities, nothing beats it. However....

[Stringswinger]

Yep, If I was looking for a carved Gibson archtop (I own three plus a Campellone), I would buy the L-4CES that JZ is selling on this forum (if I did not have the extra 3K required for an L-5.

[wintermoon]

A Gibson is a guitar made in a factory for a specific price point. The decisions made regarding design, materials even finish are made by corporate business men. Profit is the only goal and has to be to keep the concern alive. The work is done by factory workers trained in specific operations. Even Hutch clocked out at the end of the day. A luthier made guitar is made by one master (hopefully) craftsman for you with no other concern and the finest selected materials available to him tailored to your specs. And doesnt get to clock out till your guitar is done and your happy. "Better" in the way a custom tailored suit from a fine tailor would be compared to off the rack at mens warehouse, from 10' away you wouldnt see the difference but the wearing experience is night and day.

ok, a custom made guitar might be better from a quality control stand point as I noted, but really in no other way unless it's custom made to the exact specs you specify that an of the rack L-5 might not have. that doesn't necessarily make it any 'better' than an 'off the rack' L-5, but possibly better for your specific tastes/needs.
you sound like a satisfied Campellone owner, nothing wrong with that.
I've had a number of custom made guitars as well as L-5's but all things being equal neither is really better imo, just different.

[vinnyv1k]

TMZ has a brand new ebony L4CES that I happen to know they will let go for $5K if new w/warranty is something you would want.

[wintermoon]

keep in mind that an L-5 is typically 17" wide w/25.5" scale length and an L-4 16" /24.75 if that's a consideration.

[deacon Mark]

I have a number of 17 inch guitars and to tell the truth my L5 feels the biggest of the 17 inch guitars I have. In fact it feels a bit bigger than one of my 18 inch guitars because the upper bout more pinched and the guitar is a bit thinner.

That said Jack's L4ces checks all the boxes except it is not an L5. The only folks who would even know the difference are mostly on this forum.

[burchyk]

I've only tried a few dual pickup L5s from the 90s onwards, but "sound good acoustic" is not exactly the phrase I would personally use to describe them.

[rpjazzguitar]

Maybe saying I want an L5 is like saying I want a Chevy.

New Corvette or old Chevette?

Which L5?

[Cunamara]

I had a es175 for years which I regrettably sold. What I am looking for in the L5 is the longer scale and better acoustic tone. I will be playing it acoustic maybe half the time or so.

Gotcha. My ES-175 does not have outstanding acoustic sound. It's adequate for practicing in a quiet room where I can at least hear the notes without plugging in. I also have a 17" carvetop (floater, 25" scale) which does have great acoustic tone, but is a struggle on stage due to some uneven amplification of notes and feedback issues, which the ES 175 does not have.

Sounds like what you maybe want is a single pickup L-5, possibly a Wesmo. A Heritage Golden Eagle, their version of the L-5, would also be worth looking into. Made by the same luthiers that made the L-5 for decades but maybe half the price or a little more than half. And in my opinion just about the best sunbursts in the biz.

[Cunamara]

Tim I can’t believe you have never played an L5. You been playing and around guitars all these years and live in a large metropolitan area?

You just have to go play an L5. I mean like real quick. Any L5 be it a ces or acoustic. Not to buy or even to compare but to just play one. They are not rare and seems every style of music has been played with them.

Go now and be quick about!

Good advice, but I don't know of an L-5 in any music store in the Twin Cities and I only even know of one guy who owns one. There have to be more around, but I've never even run across one being played on a gig.* I've played a couple of Johnny Smiths (how about that – much rarer than the L-5 and yet I've played two of those), ES-335s, SGs, Les Pauls and my ES-175. But never an L-5.

*Edit. I have to correct this. Papa John Kolstad has a 1930s L-5, one of the ones with a virtually no clearance for a pickup at the end of the neck; he has one of those "2D" Kent Armstrong pickups on it, if I recall correctly. I saw him play that with the Hot Club of Eastlake.

[2bornot2bop]

I guess you already know that a used L5 is more like $7.5K in the current market. That being said, if you want and actual acoustic tone, a Gibson L5 CES doesn't really do that. Different models than a CES may be better as an acoustic instrument but, broadly and there are may be exceptions, modern L5's are made to be amplified. Same with many of the guitars mentioned in this thread. Of course most don't ever play their archtops unplugged and what they really want is some acoustic overtones in their electric sound. Reference threads on modern vs traditional archtop tone. The former represented by the likes of Trenier and Benedetto style guitars. The latter mainly Gibson models (e.g. ES175, L5). Assuming you are looking for Wes/Burrell tones (and yea.. it's more complicated than that.. so what? You have to start somewhere), for $5K I would say a used Campellone would be pretty good.

Since you’re the owner of an L5 Studio I hoped you would have chimed in since he asked about the merits of an L5 Studio.

[Rickco]

Yep, If I was looking for a carved Gibson archtop (I own three plus a Campellone), I would buy the L-4CES that JZ is selling on this forum (if I did not have the extra 3K required for an L-5.

As long as were keeping it in the family prozzis 575 is sitting at a steal 16" all carved loud enough for practice and stunning plugged in under 3k, just sayin...

[pauln]

A Strat that sounds like an L5?

[vinnyv1k]

Well if you want to save up another $2K I can let you have this.
To my ears a 18x2.5 CES sounds the same as a 17x3.3 or at least to me.

[jim777]

For one day of research these campellones look really really nice. How do you pronounce it?

Cam-pell-own

[jim777]

Well if you want to save up another $2K I can let you have this.
To my ears a 18x2.5 CES sounds the same as a 17x3.3 or at least to me.

Damn Vinny, what?!?! That's insane!

[joe2758]

Thanks everyone for the info and deal alerts. I'm not quite ready to pull the trigger yet and financing is also a (big) consideration.

[Zigracer]

Just a note on the Wesmo versions sounding better acoustically than the CES versions: When I got my CES last year, I thought it had a very good acoustic sound. A couple of months ago, a customer brought a beautiful Wesmo into my shop to reassemble after he had all of the hardware re-plated. Upon playing the Wesmo after reassembly, I noted that this Wesmo was not nearly as acoustically resonant and pleasing as my CES. So while I agree that a Wesmo should be better acoustically because of only one hole routed in the top, there are exceptions to the rule for a variety of reasons. Therefore, if it is possible to play before you buy (which is sometimes hard these days), then do so.

[wintermoon]

Just a note on the Wesmo versions sounding better acoustically than the CES versions: When I got my CES last year, I thought it had a very good acoustic sound. A couple of months ago, a customer brought a beautiful Wesmo into my shop to reassemble after he had all of the hardware re-plated. Upon playing the Wesmo after reassembly, I noted that this Wesmo was not nearly as acoustically resonant and pleasing as my CES. So while I agree that a Wesmo should be better acoustically because of only one hole routed in the top, there are exceptions to the rule for a variety of reasons. Therefore, if it is possible to play before you buy (which is sometimes hard these days), then do so.

Very true, there are exceptions to the rule and every guitar is different.
I have an old twin pickup Gibson that sounds so loud and full acoustically I almost never plug it in.

[vinnyv1k]

Mark Campellone has a Wesmo in his shop right now that has some cosmetic issues. He is going to fix the finish and flip it.
Might get a good deal on that one.
He likes to fix and flip Gibson’s like he did to the S400T above.

[Spook410]

Are L5 studios a good buy?

Oh. Missed this. Yes. Well. I have a nice L5 Studio. There are two generations. I have an older one with a standard burst and laminate back and sides. The newer ones, brass or army green painted, have carved backs and sides. I also have a ES175 and an L5 CES. I have spent some time (is it obvious I'm retired?) comparing them. The L5 Studio is not as rich sounding as the L5 CES as you might expect with the laminate back and sides. Though not by as much as you would think. Plugged in it would take a pretty good listener to pick up on the additional warmth and sophistication of the L5 CES. And while both are very quiet unplugged, the CES does have a more pleasing and complex acoustic sound. I've started putting flat wounds on the L5 CES and rounds on the Studio which kind of obviates a comparison.

The ES175 is a different sort of thing with the shorter scale, smaller body, and all laminate woods. Odd that it's such a great guitar and just nails a nice jazz tone the way it does. There's something special about the design of an ES175 that just works.