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Hi,
Anyone know how many 16" models John D'Angelico made? I think his early Gibson copies were 16s but then he seemed to move on to bigger bodies. Not so many cutaways at 16". There's a really cool one that Josh Smith plays at Norman's Rare Guitars in a video for a few years back. I've also seen one at GuitarsN'Jazz that was spec'd out by Chuck Wayne to include a felt-clad interior to limit feed back. Any others? Were most of the later guitars like the Excels and New Yorkers 17 inches and up?
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09-17-2024 11:05 AM
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This is mine from 1933. It was made for a professional player named Andy Jackson, hence the Andy on the pickguard.
I don’t know how many were made at 16”. I’m not sure that anyone does.
The standard lower bout for Style A, Style B, and Excel is 17”. The standard was 18” for the New Yorker. Also, that’s rounded down since they are typically a little over. Mine in the photos is actually a bit over 16”.
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Yes, I've seen yours, Chuck. That's a beautiful guitar! It's on the Wikipedia page! The one of the Metropolitan Museum page is a another gorgeous one. That one is a little strange because it's one of his Gibson-styles but has, what I think of, as a later style pickguard. Yours has like a later-style tailpiece. I guess he was working on these guitars through the years, maybe?
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As best I can tell Jackson went back several years later and asked for the stairstep tailpiece.
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Maybe he wanted to class up the joint.
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The usual nomenclature for a 16 inch DA is a "Snakehead" DA as John D'Angelico's headstock closely followed the Gibson design. I do not believe any were made with a cutaway, though some were retrofitted with a cutaway years later. Of note, some were built for the Selmer company of France and have Selmer on the headstock rather than D'Angelico.
Her is an example of a Selmer DA: 1934 Selmer D'Angelico
How many were built is unknown. While John D'Angelico kept a ledger, there are many omissions, particularly from his earliest years.
Once D'Angelico went to 17 inch (and after that some 18 inch) guitars, he never went back to 16 inch guitars though he might have made a few in later years by special request. He was very much a "custom" guitar builder.
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I have seen a picture of Mel Bay playing an early thirties Excel with a stairstep tailpiece. I am guessing quite a few had the retrofitting done once D'Angelico came out with his signature Deco tailpiece.
Originally Posted by ThatRhythmMan
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Al Casey also played one. He can be seen with it in some shorts done with Fats Waller.
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Oscar Moore
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Nick Lucas
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There are books - imagine that - about these guitars. Perhaps one of them has the answer you're looking for.
Acquired of the Angels: The Lives and Works of Master Guitar Makers John D'Angelico and James L. D'Aquisto, 2nd Ed. Hardcover – December 28, 1998
ISBN-13: 978-1578860029
D'Angelico, Master Guitar Builder: What's in a Name? Paperback – March 1, 2008 by Frank W.M. Green
ISBN-13: 978-1574242171
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The DA ledger is very sketchy concerning the early guitars, many were not even entered/recorded Originally Posted by dconeill
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Mel Bay's early 17 inch Excel with the stairstep tailpiece
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What great photos! Thanks for sharing!
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You've probably seen the video I was talking about but here's the 16 inch Excel cutaway:
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Those books were written by my good friend Paul Schmidt. We keep in constant contact with each other and he was here visiting about 2 years ago. He really is pretty much the authority on at least some aspects of D'angelicos given his extensive experience. This is what he has told me, and it generally goes along with what I have found and researched.
The stairstep tailpiece could have come out as early as 1937 but no way to completely verify. My 37 NY has one for sure an extra fancy one not sure if it was retrofitted even though I bought it from the original owner Robert Lessey. I never ask him, and his name is inlayed on 15th fret.
Not sure when the first blond Dangelicos came out but like Gibson probably 1939 or later. Any that are blond before that have been refinished. It is important to note that Dangelico many times refinished he own guitars and according to Paul as new appointments and options added, players would bring them back for modifications.
No way to know how many 16 inch guitars he made but not many. Also, very important to note the guitar bodies varied even with 17, 18 inch guitars. This was because the way the forms where used and they could be modified with small changes to accommodate players. Must also note the type of shop and work John was doing is the exact opposite of today's CNC factory and even Gibson had variations. Gibsons clearly are more uniform regarding body size but necks, scale length, and parts are all up for grabs in the 1930's
Paul says and thinks that any Dangelico with a stinger on the back of the headstock was supposed to be blond, but I cannot prove it and hard to really verify. If there was no stinger it was of course sunburst but again, cannot prove this exactly. Paul thinks John was going for 17-inch guitars that were not Gibson in sound. He says John was looking for other things besides pure power, but this became much more prevalent as players starting using floating pickups. Then he went with something they made the guitar even up and down the neck.
I have played maybe 2 16 inch Dangelicos and they sound quite different than larger models. I had a 1937 Style B had a stairstep tailpiece and I actually think was original to the guitar. It was quite nice but very different than my present 1938 L5. The Da was much smoother and lush but had volume if you wanted to drive the top. The L5 is brighter and crisper sounding.
Chuck's 16 to me at least is the coolest one I have ever seen and easily sounds wonderful. It would be cool to be in the room with this guitar and other Da's.Last edited by deacon Mark; 09-17-2024 at 04:44 PM.
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That etching on the pick guard is phenomenal! Originally Posted by ThatRhythmMan
This is mine from 1933. It was made for a professional player named Andy Jackson, hence the Andy on the pickguard.
I don’t know how many were made at 16”. I’m not sure that anyone does.
The standard lower bout for Style A, Style B, and Excel is 17”. The standard was 18” for the New Yorker. Also, that’s rounded down since they are typically a little over. Mine in the photos is actually a bit over 16”.
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Thx, I found one brand new on Reverb! Originally Posted by dconeill
Last edited by 2bornot2bop; 09-17-2024 at 07:30 PM.
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Here's a couple Moore
shots of Oscar w his early D'Angelico
Note the late 30s Kluson Sealfast tuners. I'm not certain if he ordered the guitar from JD or purchased it used but someone replaced the open back tuners w the newly introduced sealed tuners.
You'll occasionally see pre '38 L-5s and Super 400s retrofitted w these tuners or the also newly introduced Grover Imperials but I can't remember ever seeing catalin button Sealfasts on a D'Angelico. John used Imperials for his higher end models but interestingly I don't believe he ever used prewar Kluson Sealfasts, though I've seen some DA's w 40s tulip button Sealfasts, however I'm not certain if those came stock or were replacements
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