The New Ibanez Pat Metheny PM3C Model

[Cunamara]

I used to attend a weeklong jazz camp for several years and one of the other regulars had an L5CC. He expressed regret about buying it and eventually went back to his ES-335, but I thought it sounded very good- much like this one. But if it's not the sound you want, it's not the sound you want. He seemed to think it played and sounded stiff.

[arnie65]

It's been great going on this discovery journey of the PM3C, however after much consideration, I've decided to sell it and pass it on to someone else who can enjoy it as much as I have. At this time I can't reconcile having 2 guitars that have pretty much the same tone, and I have a Tele with a custom "Dearmond style Rhythm Chief 1100" pickup that sounds very close to the PM3C. I will post 2 recordings of the guitar with the Pete Biltoft pickup, and with the stock Ibanez pickup with upgraded Alnico V magnets. I will sell the guitar with the buyer's choice of pickup installed, case, and 2 custom F hole plugs made for the PM3C, all for $1,400 I'll post the recordings Saturday.


Cheers,
Arnie...

[Mick-7]

It's been great going on this discovery journey of the PM3C, however after much consideration, I've decided to sell it and pass it on to someone else who can enjoy it as much as I have. At this time I can't reconcile having 2 guitars that have pretty much the same tone, and I have a Tele with a custom "Dearmond style Rhythm Chief 1100" pickup that sounds very close to the PM3C.

What's the 2nd guitar with similar tone to the PM3C? Your comment implies you're not referring to the Tele.

[arnie65]

What's the 2nd guitar with similar tone to the PM3C? Your comment implies you're not referring to the Tele.

It is the Tele, it doesn't have the acoustic nuances of the PM3C, but the tone is very similar, and to be quite honest I didn't need another archtop. I always wanted an archtop with a CC pickup "a la" Barney Kessel, but I just can't reconcile keeping it.


Cheers,
Arnie..

[D.G.]

I’m really happy with the guitar, but I’m not sold on the pickup. I might be too much of a p90 kinda guy…

[Cunamara]

It's been great going on this discovery journey of the PM3C, however after much consideration, I've decided to sell it and pass it on to someone else who can enjoy it as much as I have. At this time I can't reconcile having 2 guitars that have pretty much the same tone, and I have a Tele with a custom "Dearmond style Rhythm Chief 1100" pickup that sounds very close to the PM3C. I will post 2 recordings of the guitar with the Pete Biltoft pickup, and with the stock Ibanez pickup with upgraded Alnico V magnets. I will sell the guitar with the buyer's choice of pickup installed, case, and 2 custom F hole plugs made for the PM3C, all for $1,400 I'll post the recordings Saturday.


Cheers,
Arnie...

Full points for trying, man. Sorry to hear it didn't work out, but on the other hand you (and the rest of us) learned something from your efforts.

[ruger9]

I’m really happy with the guitar, but I’m not sold on the pickup. I might be too much of a p90 kinda guy…

Is the CC really that much different?

[D.G.]

Is the CC really that much different?

Yup. It's a bit hard to describe, but the CC -- at least in the PM3 -- is much brighter than any p90 I have. It's also less "complex" of a tone, which is the main difference I notice. These differences are exacerbated by how I hit, which is gypsy hard. To an extent, it reminds me of using a magnetic pickup -- like a Krivo -- on a gypsy guitar. It works, but...

This is not to say it's not a serviceable sound, it's just a sound that does not thrill me when I play it. Note that I tend to play with the volume and tone wide open. I don't like fiddling with the controls, especially the tone. When I use the guitar, I dump a lot of treble at the amp, which brings the brightness under control but also make the tone a little bland for my tastes.

As always, YMMV.

[ruger9]

Yup. It's a bit hard to describe, but the CC -- at least in the PM3 -- is much brighter than any p90 I have. It's also less "complex" of a tone, which is the main difference I notice. These differences are exacerbated by how I hit, which is gypsy hard. To an extent, it reminds me of using a magnetic pickup -- like a Krivo -- on a gypsy guitar. It works, but...

This is not to say it's not a serviceable sound, it's just a sound that does not thrill me when I play it. Note that I tend to play with the volume and tone wide open. I don't like fiddling with the controls, especially the tone. When I use the guitar, I dump a lot of treble at the amp, which brings the brightness under control but also make the tone a little bland for my tastes.

As always, YMMV.

Thanks for the reply. I will agree that, in videos at least, the CC in the Ibanez doesn't sound like any other CC I've heard (it's brighter)... not very P90 like at all, whereas I think CC pickups are more P90 like.... enough to be included in the same "camp" when discussions of the 2 pickups arise.

[ruger9]

Still liking the tones Tim gets out of his better than most other demos...

[ss399]

I tried out the guitar at a local shop. As everyone says, I thought the sound and playability were good, and it’s great to have the recent Metheny tone available brand new, so I genuinely wanted it. It’s lightweight, and the satin finish is nice too.


One thing that caught my attention was that it felt a bit “too sturdy.” It might sound odd, but whether it’s the glue or something else, I felt that the resonance didn’t quite capture the acoustic natural feel of the wood given the size and feel. It’s less about volume and more about the quality of the tone, I think. It’s just personal preference, but I tend to like lacquer-finished guitars, and I felt this one lacked a bit of that natural woodiness. Maybe it’s too much to expect at this price point, but if there’s a way to enhance that aspect with some modifications, I’d be interested. Any advice?

[ruger9]

I tried out the guitar at a local shop. As everyone says, I thought the sound and playability were good, and it’s great to have the recent Metheny tone available brand new, so I genuinely wanted it. It’s lightweight, and the satin finish is nice too.


One thing that caught my attention was that it felt a bit “too sturdy.” It might sound odd, but whether it’s the glue or something else, I felt that the resonance didn’t quite capture the acoustic natural feel of the wood given the size and feel. It’s less about volume and more about the quality of the tone, I think. It’s just personal preference, but I tend to like lacquer-finished guitars, and I felt this one lacked a bit of that natural woodiness. Maybe it’s too much to expect at this price point, but if there’s a way to enhance that aspect with some modifications, I’d be interested. Any advice?

I know exactly what you mean. Many new flat top acoustic guitars are the same way, many describe it as "tight", then they "loosen up" or "open up" over the years, and over many hours of playtime. I don't see why a fully hollow archtop would be any different. A brand new Gibson ES-125 just built isn't going to sound like one that's decades old.

[Brian859]

I was going to say the same thing, but stiff, verses loose. The tone seems to be a little polarizing for those that have played one. It will be interesting to see how the guitar performs on the secondary market.

[Cunamara]

I tried out the guitar at a local shop. As everyone says, I thought the sound and playability were good, and it’s great to have the recent Metheny tone available brand new, so I genuinely wanted it. It’s lightweight, and the satin finish is nice too.


One thing that caught my attention was that it felt a bit “too sturdy.” It might sound odd, but whether it’s the glue or something else, I felt that the resonance didn’t quite capture the acoustic natural feel of the wood given the size and feel. It’s less about volume and more about the quality of the tone, I think. It’s just personal preference, but I tend to like lacquer-finished guitars, and I felt this one lacked a bit of that natural woodiness. Maybe it’s too much to expect at this price point, but if there’s a way to enhance that aspect with some modifications, I’d be interested. Any advice?

If you want it to sound woodier, I would suggest replacing the TOM bridge top with a wooden bridge top. That should make a noticeable change. Not only the difference in material, but the difference in mass will affect the sound. I replaced the TOM on my Gibson ES-175 with a wooden bridge top made by Roger Sadowsky and found a warmer and rounder sound with it.

[ruger9]

If you want it to sound woodier, I would suggest replacing the TOM bridge top with a wooden bridge top. That should make a noticeable change. Not only the difference in material, but the difference in mass will affect the sound. I replaced the TOM on my Gibson ES-175 with a wooden bridge top made by Roger Sadowsky and found a warmer and rounder sound with it.

Hey yeah, I forgot about that. I had an Epiphone Broadway (came with a TOM), I replaced it with a wood bridge and it definitely made quite a difference. I actually tried it on my Gretsch too, and it still made a big difference... but that's just not what a Gretsch is.

[D.G.]

If you want it to sound woodier, I would suggest replacing the TOM bridge top with a wooden bridge top. That should make a noticeable change. Not only the difference in material, but the difference in mass will affect the sound. I replaced the TOM on my Gibson ES-175 with a wooden bridge top made by Roger Sadowsky and found a warmer and rounder sound with it.

Hmm. That’s worth a try! I’ve even got a spare Sadowsky bridge…

[ss399]

Yeah, it would be interesting to see how this model ages over time. Right now, I prefer a more articulated sound because many old records are represented in that style, whereas contemporary recordings tend to lean in the opposite direction. Pat’s sound used to feel more contemporary, and this model seems to sit somewhere in between those two approaches.

[ss399]

And if this model came with solid spruce top, I think that may be a killer…

Also I wasn’t even thinking of replacing bridge. Thanks for the insight.

[ruger9]

And if this model came with solid spruce top, I think that may be a killer…

Also I wasn’t even thinking of replacing bridge. Thanks for the insight.

Agree on the spruce top- Ibanez really missed the boat there. If it was spruce, I'd have one already.

[pingu]

solid Spruce or Lam ?

[ruger9]

solid Spruce or Lam ?

I don't know that I'd care. Either. I wouldn't be playing it loud in a big band, so I wouldn't have the issue of feedback.

[geese_com]

[D.G.]

Hmm. That’s worth a try! I’ve even got a spare Sadowsky bridge…

Alas, the posts on the PM are too big for the Sadowsky bridge, so no easy swap possible

[Fred Archtop]

Hey Jazzers,

My small contribution to demoing this guitar. It's not mine, it belongs to a good friend who has let me try it out.

The intro (F7M, Abm7) is copy/paste from the great Jimmy Raney on one of his duet albums with his son Doug.

Best and take care.

[Cunamara]

Wow! I guess the stock pickup is OK (assuming that's what it is). There's a smidge more "thunk" than with some of your other CC guitars, Fred. Good bebop guitar, I would think.