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This is an amazing video about the equally amazing MoonDial album and how it was inspired by and created with his new Manzer baritone guitar. I've just listened to the album for the first time and I felt like I was hearing something very special.
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07-28-2024 04:22 PM
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I pre-ordered the LP when it was announced. Been listening on Qobuz up until Friday when the LP arrived. We think it's a beautiful recording, period.
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Cool but is there a more affordable alternative? - Manzer Baritone Guitar...
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It depends on whether you insist on a nylon string or not. It you can settle for steel (which is what he used previously) then there are some much less expensive alternatives. I'm pretty sure you could get at least close to his sound on a Godin A6 Ultra Baritone for about $1200 US. A lot of that sound is coming from the tuning. The Godin as a 27.7" scale length so you can tune the entire guitar A to A or B to B with the two middle strings raised an octave. (And price is only one impediment with getting a Manzer. She has a waiting list to get on her waiting list).
Originally Posted by Mick-7
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Kind of ironic how guitarists are going into the lower ranges on nylons, and bassists are going into the higher ranges on nylons.
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Two Words: Brahms Guitar. You get George v Eps LOW A. And you get Lenny Breau’s High A.
The best of both worlds, proper intonation provided by the fanned frets.
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Would you be so kind as to expand on this statement? That is, how can one know if a baritone guitar would be a candidate (or not) for standard tuning? Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
Thank you but I don't think those meet my "affordable" criteria? Originally Posted by Navdeep_Singh
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This is going to be me try at an answer. Originally Posted by Mick-7
Can I get some help with string gauges for a sort of Metheny baritone setup?
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Not sure what your budget is. it’s less than 1/.3 the price of the Manzer and a way the hell better classical guitar. See any Paul Galbraith video. Originally Posted by Mick-7
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Wouldn't that still be around $9,000? Originally Posted by Navdeep_Singh
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Contact the luthier Martin Woodhouse, out of Cambridge England. He inherited all the equipment from the luthier, David Rubio, when he passed away. Mr. Rubio, working with Paul Galbraith, was the original maker of the Brahms guitar. Mr. Woodhouse now makes it for Paul. Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
I got mine in 2019 from Mr. Woodhouse for $5k USD (based on current exchange rage).
For my money, Paul Galbraith is one of the greatest musicians around. Very nice guy. My teacher had all his students go see him. He said if he was starting classical guitar again, he would go Paul’s route. Wasn’t sure how it work in a jazz context.
Now you are starring to see people play Brahms guitars in a solo-non classical context. Why not ? It’s just a tool.
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Thank you, Jim, I don't know if you saw this edit to my last post, wherein I asked: "How can one know if a baritone guitar would be a candidate (or not) for standard tuning?" You implied the neck scale length is one important factor. Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
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It is. The longer it is, the lower you can go but you can get pretty low on a 25.5" scale length especially on an electric and if you don't demand really high tension. You could experiment on a cheap Tele copy and get a really good idea if it worked. In my case, my old blue Gosling is sitting in a case doing not much of anything these days. It's 25.5" and I think I could get something pretty close with it. Originally Posted by Mick-7
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Nice video of Pat explaining his guitar. I don’t think the so-called Brahms 8 string classical guitar that Paul Galbraith plays would not be a substitute that most guitarists could just readily play. (BTW, Paul is indeed a fantastic classical guitarist if by chance you have never heard of him). The Brahms 8 string he plays is played like a cellist holds his instrument and the tuning is not what Pat uses if that is important to you. I think Jim’s suggestion of the Godin baritone is a good one for a high quality baritone.
Harley Benton, maker of cheap but surprisingly good guitars, sells a steel string baritone (CLG-414BCE NT) with a fishman pickup for under 300usd although figure an extra 100 to ship to US or CAN.
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Hmm, seems I misinterpreted what Pat Metheny was saying. I thought he was suggesting that the Manzer guitar is in some way structurally different than other baritone guitars, but it is not.
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I answered you on my phone but apparently my phone ate what ever I typed and hid it somewhere. Originally Posted by Mick-7
In his explanation, I believe he was saying that it's different from the guitar he used on the previous solo albums because it's nylon string rather than steel. Structurally, I don't think there's a lot of significance to his tuning other than the scale length. I think that was chosen as a sweet spot for his tuning: long enough to support an A to A tuning on the outer strings but not so long that he couldn't achieve the inner tunings. She may have a done some other tuning things to make it sound good in that tuning but really I think you could achieve the tuning on any baritone with a scale length between 26.5" (maybe even as short as 26.125") and 28.75". Taylor make both 6 string and 8 string baritones that are 27". (The 8 string uses a pair of double course strings. That would definitely have some guitar specific engineering).
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Well, the used manzer cost 200 times more than my goodwill conn c200. But I am skeptical it sounds, plays or even looks that magnitude better. Of even two or three times for that matter. Is that how much they actually cost or is the seller saying its the model metheny plays so theres a $12000 or whatever premium?
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The premium is at least as much for the fact that it is a Linda Mazer guitar as it is for being played by Pat Metheny. She's one of the better known and respected builders and is successful enough, even at ridiculous prices, to have a waiting list for her waiting list. Originally Posted by Brian859
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Okay. Thanks I guess. I mean you can get a really good sounding and well made classical for considerably less. I get that its a baritone, but near $20k is eye watering. As in I would cry if I paid that.
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Guitars from the top 10 or 15 builders are definitely not for everyone but there are lots of people out there with a lot more money than you and me. On the other hand, Linda has worked really hard, has built guitars for some really prominent players and she's 72 years old and, I assume, nearing the end of an illustrious career. I'm not going to be one of her customers but I'm glad to see her being successful. (And clearly, you don't ever NEED one of her guitars. Not even to get this concept of the Metheny baritone up and running. I just did it for $30 and a spare guitar that wasn't getting much action. Originally Posted by Brian859
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I get it Jim. She worked hard for a long time producing her guitars and desesrves the success she is seeing at this point. I had never heard of her guitars, which is hardly surprising. So she is at the very top of classical guitars builders, which is really saying something. Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
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No. The nylon stings (not really classicals) are just a tiny part of her portfolio. Her main business has always been been steel string acoustics and archtops. She's been building guitars for Metheny and Bruce Cockburn for many decades Originally Posted by Brian859
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Thanks. So I had to go to youtube to check them out. She is in a lot of videos with great admirers of her guitars, including metheny. But they dont hardly play them, they all just sit around saying how great they are. Ill take their word for it though. .
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And Julian Lage. And of course there's this, which must've been a ton of work:
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Actually I'm not sure that she is considered to be at the top of classical guitar makers, I believe she is more known for her flat top and arch top guitars. For which she has justifiably earned a great reputation. Originally Posted by Brian859
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
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